Iraq War Memorial wall

[240 is Back]

They have one for Vietnam.  Why not for Iraq?

Each day, they would chisel the name of the latest fallen.  Would be a somber reminder that real names are attached to those who fall everyday.  Also would remind those vietnam vet voters that this new generation is going thru what they went thru.  They might be voting pocketbook republican because of their retirement, but it might being them back.  And for the rest of us, well, why not honor the dead immediately after they fall, instead of being grouped with 5,000 or 10,000 other names in 20 years?

[vinnydountsnyc]

Here's what Bush Republicans really think about serving our country... as they send others to fight and die.

Republican Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, chose not to serve our country.

Former Republican House Majority Speaker, Dick Armey, chose not to serve our country.

Repblican Texas Senator Phil Gram got several deferments (4?).

Republican Jack Kemp chose not to serve our country, because of a “bad knee,” but that didn’t stop him from playing pro football.  (No Pat Tillman he.)

Republican House Majority Leader, Tom DeLay, chose not to serve our country.

Republican House Majority Whip, Roy Blunt, chose not to serve our country.

Republican Representative Dana Rohrabacher chose not to serve our country.

Republican Senate Majority Leader, Bill Frist, chose not to serve our country.

Republican Majority Whip, Mitch McConnell, chose not to serve our country.

Republican Rick Santorum, third ranking Republican in the Senate, chose not to serve our country.

Former Republican Majority Leader, Trent Lott, chose not to serve our country.

Republican Bush official Elliot Abrams, convicted in Iran contra, chose not to serve our country.

Attorney General John Ashcroft received 7 deferments.

Jeb Bush chose not to serve our country.

Bush's chief political guru, Karl Rove, chose not to serve our country.

Republican moralizer in chief, Bill betting Bennett, chose not to serve our country.

Sean Hannity chose not to serve our country, but has no trouble denegrating any Democrat veteran.

Bill O'Reilly chose not to serve our country.

Rush Limbaugh got out because of a “pilonidal cyst” (read: boil on his butt), but has no trouble denegrating any Democrat veteran.

Former Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, and serial adulterer, chose not to serve our country.

Co-leader neocon and Iraqi war booster, Paul Wolfowitz, had no trouble sending others to die in war, but chose not to serve our country himself.

Co-leader neocon Iraqi booster, Richard Perle, also had no trouble sending others to die and get maimed in Iraq, but chose not to serve our country himself.

And Dick – doing business with the enemy, I had better things to do than serve my country – Cheney, seems to have received his last deferment by bedding down his wife and making her with child.

Democrats who served: Representative Dick Gephardt, Representative Bonoir, Senator Tom Daschle, Vice President Al Gore, Senator Bob Kerry, Senator Inouye, Senator John Kerry, Representative Charles Rangel, Senator Max Cleland, Senator Teddy Kennedy, Senator Tom Harkin, Senator Jack Reed, Senator Fritz Hollings, Boswell, Peterson, Thompson, McBridge, Pete Stark, Gray Davis... Senator George McGovern, Senator John Glenn, Vice President Walter Mondale, and, except for Ike, President Jimmy Carter, who served more years in the service than any other president.

Of course, there are many Democrats who didn’t serve our country, including President Bill Clinton.

However, Democrats aren’t the ones VILIFYING real VETERANS.

That would be the Bush-Cheney team, sanctioned by our “Mission Accomplished” commander in chief and his draft dodging Dick.

And what about George W. Bush’s service record, WHICH HE IS LYING ABOUT ON HIS RESUME?

Frankly, no one knows for sure.

There are missing, secret and scrubbed files.

And the White House won’t let anyone talk about it

[egj13]

They have one for Vietnam.  Why not for Iraq?

Each day, they would chisel the name of the latest fallen.  Would be a somber reminder that real names are attached to those who fall everyday.  Also would remind those vietnam vet voters that this new generation is going thru what they went thru.  They might be voting pocketbook republican because of their retirement, but it might being them back.  And for the rest of us, well, why not honor the dead immediately after they fall, instead of being grouped with 5,000 or 10,000 other names in 20 years?

Interesting idea.

[headhuntersix]

Here's another idea..if u don't serve u don't get any tax breaks..no federal loans for education....no ability to hold federal jobs...I'm sure i will think up more crap.

[240 is Back]

Here's another idea..if u don't serve u don't get any tax breaks..no federal loans for education....no ability to hold federal jobs...I'm sure i will think up more crap.

I like the ideas of extra breaks for vets - I think they do get them.

however, taking away federal loans means you'll have a lot less people go to college.  Would hurt the US economy.

Same with the fact we don't have enough high quality ppl to work all the federal jobs - you take away that option from folks and watch how slow the post office gets.

I am fine with giving vets breaks, but not if it means less Americans get college or less jobs get filled - those hurt our economy which is weak already.

[egj13]

I like the ideas of extra breaks for vets - I think they do get them.

however, taking away federal loans means you'll have a lot less people go to college.  Would hurt the US economy.

Same with the fact we don't have enough high quality ppl to work all the federal jobs - you take away that option from folks and watch how slow the post office gets.

I am fine with giving vets breaks, but not if it means less Americans get college or less jobs get filled - those hurt our economy which is weak already.

Most of the breaks that Vets recieve depends on the amount of dissability they can claim.

[OzmO]

Here's another idea..if u don't serve u don't get any tax breaks..no federal loans for education....no ability to hold federal jobs...I'm sure i will think up more crap.

Wow,  sounds like Starship troopers 

[headhuntersix]

YOU WOULD BE RIGHT SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AE]

They have one for Vietnam.  Why not for Iraq?

Each day, they would chisel the name of the latest fallen.  ...

And we can add to each name "Mission not quite accomplished". 

[egj13]

And we can add to each name "Mission not quite accomplished". 

interesting. I know that the original mission was accomplished (removing Saddam), I wonder how you know already that the final mission won't be met?

[240 is Back]

interesting. I know that the original mission was accomplished (removing Saddam), I wonder how you know already that the final mission won't be met?

they've continually changed the mission in order to prolong the war to get the pipeline done.

1- end wmd
2- end saddam
3- bring democracy
4- hold elections
5- referee a civil war?

[egj13]

they've continually changed the mission in order to prolong the war to get the pipeline done.

1- end wmd
2- end saddam
3- bring democracy
4- hold elections
5- referee a civil war?

I think you can combine the first 2

[Camel Jockey]

Here's another idea..if u don't serve u don't get any tax breaks..no federal loans for education....no ability to hold federal jobs...I'm sure i will think up more crap.

What a bunch of garbage. And I'd much rather work for the private sector. 

[headhuntersix]

which is your right but u would forfit certain benefits. I unable to finish this thread but...
i would not call for everybody to serve. My plan would have two tracks....military service/domestic service. Within the domestic service u would have public works/forestery and other things as well as Border patrol and possibly customs...anything to benefit the country and instill disipline. 2 years would work I think.

[240 is Back]

no offense, but you have what, 150 mil working americans?  watch the economy plummet when every one of them spends 2 years in the inefficnent shitfarm that is the public sector.

private corps keep the nation afloat.  you think if every company was run like the DMV, people would want to live here?

[Camel Jockey]

which is your right but u would forfit certain benefits. I unable to finish this thread but...
i would not call for everybody to serve. My plan would have two tracks....military service/domestic service. Within the domestic service u would have public works/forestery and other things as well as Border patrol and possibly customs...anything to benefit the country and instill disipline. 2 years would work I think.

Any type law enforcement service would require atleast a years worth of training.

Although I do like your idea of a citizens border patrol, a lot of people generally don't speak spanish and wouldn't it require a lot of training?

I wouldn't mind abusing the mexicans and stealing their coke though. 

private corps keep the nation afloat.  you think if every company was run like the DMV, people would want to live here?

I hate going to the local DMV.. Full of fucking idots with attitudes who probably got where they are via affirmative action and quotas.

[headhuntersix]

240 ...it wouldn't..starts in 2010 say. Everybody else is grandfathered...u and ur poor eyesight are off the hook. 

[ieffinhatecardio]

interesting. I know that the original mission was accomplished (removing Saddam), I wonder how you know already that the final mission won't be met?

I thought the original mission involved finding and destroying WMD's? And are you really going to defend Bush regarding that moronic "Mission Accomplished" PR stunt?

[240 is Back]

240 ...it wouldn't..starts in 2010 say. Everybody else is grandfathered...u and ur poor eyesight are off the hook. 

LOL... Since we've started the military/draft talk, I have researched it, and man, being in the military would have its fun parts, if I wouldn't get shipped to beghdad or tehran to dodge bullets.  If I would be able to work in my own town and never get shipped out, I'd be very open to it. 

[headhuntersix]

Well if u get drafted I'll find u a job..maybe u could be my driver....or u could be my official spotter

[egj13]

I thought the original mission involved finding and destroying WMD's? And are you really going to defend Bush regarding that moronic "Mission Accomplished" PR stunt?

Wow you guys, it is no stop! Where did I mention Bush? You guys read to much into every statement, almost makes it no fun in here. The mission was to oust Saddam because he had WMDs. We did oust him and the world is better for it. Since then the war has gone to shit but hindsight is 20/20.

[240 is Back]

We did oust him and the world is better for it.

Yes, it's a fact we ousted him.

However the world is NOT in agreement that the world is better for it.

More Iraqis die per year on average now than they did before (Bruce and I had the stats battle and it is very clear that more die now than under saddam).

Also, our govt agencies are unanimous in their findings that terrorism worldwide and in iraq is WORSE now than before.

So, is "the world better for it"?  I don't know.  One bad guy gone, replaced by 2,500 bad guys who kill randomly everyday (the insurgents).  Terrorism up everywhere.  Is this a success?  The numbers say no.

[egj13]

Yes, it's a fact we ousted him.

However the world is NOT in agreement that the world is better for it.

More Iraqis die per year on average now than they did before (Bruce and I had the stats battle and it is very clear that more die now than under saddam).

Also, our govt agencies are unanimous in their findings that terrorism worldwide and in iraq is WORSE now than before.

So, is "the world better for it"?  I don't know.  One bad guy gone, replaced by 2,500 bad guys who kill randomly everyday (the insurgents).  Terrorism up everywhere.  Is this a success?  The numbers say no.

My opinion that the world being better for it goes beyond today. Granted today things may be worse but how will it be in the future?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Wow you guys, it is no stop! Where did I mention Bush? You guys read to much into every statement, almost makes it no fun in here. The mission was to oust Saddam because he had WMDs. We did oust him and the world is better for it. Since then the war has gone to shit but hindsight is 20/20.

The post you quoted mentioned "mission accomplished" which as we all know refers to Bush's PR Stunt. How is my mentioning it reading too much into it?

I agree hindsight is 20/20 but I'm not sure that applies here. Many many people never agreed with invading Iraq. Invading Afghanistan was universally agreed with but not Iraq. As has been said many times, if we want to start dethroning evil dictators our military is going to be very busy for a long long time to come. The world is littered with them, many far worse than Saddam ever was.

[egj13]

The post you quoted mentioned "mission accomplished" which as we all know refers to Bush's PR Stunt. How is my mentioning it reading too much into it?

I agree hindsight is 20/20 but I'm not sure that applies here. Many many people never agreed with invading Iraq. Invading Afghanistan was universally agreed with but not Iraq. As has been said many times, if we want to start dethroning evil dictators our military is going to be very busy for a long long time to come. The world is littered with them, many far worse than Saddam ever was.

Cool, I wasn't using a Bush line however. Being a military member, we know that we accomplished our mission. Our mission wasn't to find WMD, it was to oust Saddam and we did so with precision!

I think you bolstered my 20/20 claim however. I know most people feel that way now, but look at polls that were conducted before we went to Iraq and shortly after Baghdad fell. Back then they were fairly high if I remember correctly. Today, looking back people feel different, I with them.