Author Topic: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?  (Read 4748 times)

OmegaRedEffMaster

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CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« on: April 27, 2007, 05:58:01 PM »
Hey ive been a lurker for a while and dont claim to be an expert on bodybuilding and such.  My main goal is to use anabolics to improve performance in my bjj and mma training.  Ive been training for a few years and supplemented it with a weight lifting routine.  Ive read and researched for the last two years and went back and forth as to whether or not to enter the "dark side". I feel like now is the time and Id like to know what you all feel about my 1st "cycle" and whether or not it will help me performance wise as I am not as concerned "looks" wise.


stats: 5'10 180 13%body fat
12 weeks
500 test prop (250 Mon,250 Thurs)
pct: novaldex
considering d-bol and eq as i have also have those.



udeluz

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 06:14:28 PM »
Test Prop is shot EOD ( Every Other Day )

If your looking for basic try this..
16 weeks
500 Test E or C (250 Mon,250 Thurs)
pct: novaldex

You can run 4 weeks of dbol if you want to kick start the cycle.
U

G

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 06:18:03 PM »
performancewise  - test,  tren/halo( either one is a must, if you are a fighter), winny,   stay away from d-bol - it'll make you stronger , but the bloating will make you slower and worsen your conditioning..

udeluz

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 06:21:58 PM »
performancewise  - test,tren/halo, winny

G

It sounds like this is his 1st cycle.
U

G

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 06:25:05 PM »
G

It sounds like this is his 1st cycle.

 well tren/halo is realy the only two that will help him as a fighter  - no bloating, lots of aggression, strenth, speed....If i had to o with one i'd stick with either one of those two

udeluz

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 06:31:00 PM »
I feel like now is the time and Id like to know what you all feel about my 1st "cycle" and whether or not it will help me performance wise as I am not as concerned "looks" wise.





Ask yourself will 10-15lbs of muscle help you with performance?
U

OmegaRedEffMaster

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 06:32:36 PM »
really appreciate the feedback guys. My mistake on the first part, its not test prop that i have, its test eth.  Also what kind of diet do you guys think i should be going with? i really dont want to bulk up a higher weight class and would rather get the strength gains at 185.

G

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 06:42:13 PM »
really appreciate the feedback guys. My mistake on the first part, its not test prop that i have, its test eth.  Also what kind of diet do you guys think i should be going with? i really dont want to bulk up a higher weight class and would rather get the strength gains at 185.

 if you are a fighter you need lot 's of clean carbs, caloriewise - just watch your weight and adjust it.....training - strenght and explosive movements .....something that will really help you in grappling and fighting - clean & jerk, jumps with haevy bar on your back - from ahalf squat to jump , and quarter squat to jump - HEAVY!

trab

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 07:24:24 PM »
If hes never used, its hard to say how he'll respond. Fighters tend to love Halo & Methyl Test for
agression. Used before workouts. They are not for gaining mass.

D'bols dont bloat me and I get great workouts off them, but you need a Injectable base w/ any orals.

Prop is not know for bloat. Could also consider: Var, Primo, Stanoz for no water retention.

Need learn how your body responds, but the 500-600mg Test cycle works well for most.
YOu will gain weight and size on that though (esp w/ Enanthate & Cypionate & SUS), do you want that?


SPRINKFSU

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 07:53:56 PM »
It dont matter what you take,if you cant fight you cant fight.

If you want performance then you need to train harder roids not going to help you gain performance.To me your getting ready to set yourself up for failure.

Arnold jr

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 08:30:46 PM »
really appreciate the feedback guys. My mistake on the first part, its not test prop that i have, its test eth.  Also what kind of diet do you guys think i should be going with? i really dont want to bulk up a higher weight class and would rather get the strength gains at 185.
Well, if you don't want to bulk up to a higher weight, make sure you're eating at your maintenance level.

Since I'm not exactly sure what you're wanting to do here, just manage your diet like you would any other time you've not been using AAS. If you're trying to gain, lose, or maintain, the ideas behind nutrition stay the same, regardless of drugs.

trab

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 04:39:11 AM »
really appreciate the feedback guys. My mistake on the first part, its not test prop that i have, its test eth.  Also what kind of diet do you guys think i should be going with? i really dont want to bulk up a higher weight class and would rather get the strength gains at 185.


One quick thought; confusing TProp w/ Enanthate is kind of major difference... If just a slip up, Ok.
But, if you are not aware of the difference in typical use & Dosing of TPrpo vs Enan...   I think you want to
bone up on this stuff for awhile before you dive in?

maffie

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 05:27:41 AM »
I'm a professional ball player... i'm on Anavar and Winstrol w/ no test at all. I noticed huge strength gains, explosiveness as well just just overall stronger aggression. Might look into that bro...

Anavar @ 40mg ED 1-12
Winstrol @ 50mg ED 1-6

Don't run the Winstrol for too long, as it interferes with the cross-linking of the collagen in your joints which will lead to weaker joints over time.

Vertigo

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2007, 12:42:39 AM »
I'm a professional ball player... i'm on Anavar and Winstrol w/ no test at all. I noticed huge strength gains, explosiveness as well just just overall stronger aggression. Might look into that bro...

Anavar @ 40mg ED 1-12
Winstrol @ 50mg ED 1-6

Don't run the Winstrol for too long, as it interferes with the cross-linking of the collagen in your joints which will lead to weaker joints over time.

Thanks you, this is the first time I've found an anavar+winstrol experience. On paper, while not synergistic, they both are known for strength with less mass, and since they work in 2 different ways, a stack of them at the cost effective doses(both 40-60mg) would be much more effective than alone even at double doses.

Add that both are less surpressive than most steroids and thus give keepable gains. For fighters and other strength sports, this is perfect. However, when using it for over 4 weeks I would use a maintenance dose of test beside it(100-150mg ew), just to keep every test induced body function well running. Your own test will be too surpressed after 4 weeks to keep it all running smooth. At 100-150mg, your red blood cell count will raise significantly, and so will your endurance. Higher than 250mg will deliver a bloat, not advisable.

About the collagen, in tendons, nobody is sure what winny does. It does increase the risk of injury, luckely anavar is known to strengthen the tendons against that. I would not worry too much about it with a stack.

In joints, I would not worry about the collagen either, but about the lack of fluid. Sore joints are quite common when on winstrol. Supplementing with MSM, glucosamine and omega 3 is a must if you want to keep it safe with heavy training. If it hurts, cut back on training or stop winstrol.



More on-topic, I think we can all agree that mma-fighters need much smaller doses than bodybuilders. Which as to use depends on what your goals are.

If you're just interested in added endurance, add an endurance dose of test, (150mg ew). Your recovery will speed up, and your red blood cell count will increase, effectivly increasing your endurance. You could try eq, but I find it is very overrated.

If your interested in agression and strength gains, without muscle gain, you will want to look in doing halo before a fight and before heavy training, it will increase your power significantly. Anavar is very useful too, just do not take it too close to the fight training, as the high pumps might cause cramps and cripple you. Winny can be used if you treat it right, quit if you have sore joints, than it's not for you. I do not like trenbolone at all, it kills your endurance. I found that out at a mere 250mg tren acetate a week, I will not take it in-season ever again. Some people say that lower doses will not have that effect. Whenever you're doing any of this over 4 weeks, always use a base maintenance test next to it for health.

If you're looking to bulk up a little, a higher amount of test should be your steroid of choice. You can use arimidex or proviron to stop the bloat, but I'd prefer a decent dose of masteron, as it will raise endurance and strength as well.

For recovery, you might want to consider deca. If you're a tested athlete, nandrolone(and trenbolone) are not advised because of the long detection time.

In summary, my cycles of choice would be

endurance/recovery:
test at 150mg ew

strength/power/agression(endurance and recovery will also go up):
halo 20mg before heavy training/40mg match
anavar 40-60mg ed
test at 150mg ew if used longer than 4 weeks
getting your liver values checked every 2 weeks is a must with this cycle. While the liver toxicity of 17aa-orals is grossly inflated, this will help you to keep safe. Running milk thistle and other liver protectors alongside will help you stay on this for a longer time.

Bulking up
300-400mg test ew
300-400mg var ew

Be careful not to get to big, mass without added power is will only hinder your flexibility. Be sure to train in your new state for a while before a fight. You might find yourself too big, as I did at 114kg. I'm back at 106kg, and I'm much more agile and even powerful than I was at 114kg

Another very decent article about this(while I do not agree on some points)

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459597

Luv2Hurt

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 04:54:04 AM »
It dont matter what you take,if you cant fight you cant fight.

If you want performance then you need to train harder roids not going to help you gain performance.To me your getting ready to set yourself up for failure.

I agree with this, juice will not make you a better fighter.  That kind of strength comes from adrenaline, tendons and reflexes, just downright wanting to get it on.  If you are gonna be good at it should not need drugs for that.  I have seen a couple dudes who appear to be in to that stuff and the one who looks like he's good at it is fairly thin and trains his ass off!! 

I mean I dont really care for the whole fighting thing and those guys never catch my attention BUT this dude I mentioned had me very impressed with how hard and intensely he trained at it.  You could just tell at how hard the guy trained that he would be MF in the ring.

trab

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2007, 07:37:05 AM »
A Thai champ kickboxer told me, "It's all about not stooping when you're badly hurt, nobody else can help me, I'm all alone."  I know some of them do dope, but it's not as prevalent as in US sports.  They cant afford it. Most of those kids are very poor. 

At matches there They pay out on the spot in: ca$h, beer, car batteries and other stuff from the sponsors. Poor bastards can barely stand often while getting their prizes.  You will see more KO's in 1 month in BKK than 2 yrs of 
watching friday night fights on espn. And they happen blindingly fast.

Vertigo

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2007, 08:05:25 AM »
A Thai champ kickboxer told me, "It's all about not stooping when you're badly hurt, nobody else can help me, I'm all alone."  I know some of them do dope, but it's not as prevalent as in US sports.  They cant afford it. Most of those kids are very poor. 

At matches there They pay out on the spot in: ca$h, beer, car batteries and other stuff from the sponsors. Poor bastards can barely stand often while getting their prizes.  You will see more KO's in 1 month in BKK than 2 yrs of 
watching friday night fights on espn. And they happen blindingly fast.

Yet in the heaviest divisions, there is absolutely no thai to be seen. And that is where strength counts for more.

And about not being able to afford it, steroids are very cheap in thailand,so I'm not so sure about that...

I agree with this, juice will not make you a better fighter.  That kind of strength comes from adrenaline, tendons and reflexes, just downright wanting to get it on.  If you are gonna be good at it should not need drugs for that.  I have seen a couple dudes who appear to be in to that stuff and the one who looks like he's good at it is fairly thin and trains his ass off!! 

I mean I dont really care for the whole fighting thing and those guys never catch my attention BUT this dude I mentioned had me very impressed with how hard and intensely he trained at it.  You could just tell at how hard the guy trained that he would be MF in the ring.

You've actually just said the main use for steroids in mma, to endure heavier training and quicker recovery, so you can train again.

Just steroids won't get u nowhere indeed. But they will help to give you the advantage.

trab

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2007, 08:50:55 AM »
Yet in the heaviest divisions, there is absolutely no thai to be seen. And that is where strength counts for more.

And about not being able to afford it, steroids are very cheap in thailand,so I'm not so sure about that...

You've actually just said the main use for steroids in mma, to endure heavier training and quicker recovery, so you can train again.

Just steroids won't get u nowhere indeed. But they will help to give you the advantage.

Yes they are very cheap. For us. But if you make $1-$4 a day it's not cheap. Even buying a Pepsi is a luxury to a lot of them. And a guy whose training and not working much has even less spare dime.
2 anabols are a little less than a can of soda at most gyms.  3-4 Bhatt each. Bush has the US$ trashed down to
34:1 Thai Batt at the present, with no floor in sight (from as high as 50:1)

The best fighting action for watching IMO is around the 125-135lb guys (I dont know the weight classes)
The action and speed just starts to suffer too much at even over around the 140lb mark. At 165 its outright dull. As for US style UFC fighting, yeah it's more realistic and brutal, but often boring as hell to watch. Two guys tied up going nowhere is dull. 

Luv2Hurt

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2007, 04:36:27 AM »

You've actually just said the main use for steroids in mma, to endure heavier training and quicker recovery, so you can train again.

Just steroids won't get u nowhere indeed. But they will help to give you the advantage.

I understand and am sure they can help to some degree.  I just wonder if the whole steroid thing is worth it for that kind of edge.  I would just rest, eat, naturally supplement, plan out my training for maximum recovery and gains possible.  Thus avoiding the steroid use headaches.

Vertigo

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2007, 10:20:27 AM »
I understand and am sure they can help to some degree.  I just wonder if the whole steroid thing is worth it for that kind of edge.  I would just rest, eat, naturally supplement, plan out my training for maximum recovery and gains possible.  Thus avoiding the steroid use headaches.

not everyone gets headaches from steroid use...

I've trained 5 times a week without steroids, when preparing for my first match, and I was completely exhausted the last 2 times, and did not get the full effect of my training. I've trained 7 times a week for 2 hours a day without problems with steroids, without even feeling tired and sore the next day.

Professional athletes go even further, they have to train over 3 hours 6 days a week. I just did it for 2 weeks and less amount of time, and I would've ended up injured if it wasn't for steroids. You cannot imagine the mental and physical toughness those guys need to have. Compared to what bodybuilders face, it is nothing. Bodybuilders might go to failure, and they just drop the weight or stop the exercise, if we fail we get our faces bashed in and lose a fight. Thus failure most be avoided at any cost...

In the heavier divisions, without steroids, you need to be a technical and physical wonder to get somewhere.

Vertigo

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2007, 10:26:07 AM »
Yes they are very cheap. For us. But if you make $1-$4 a day it's not cheap. Even buying a Pepsi is a luxury to a lot of them. And a guy whose training and not working much has even less spare dime.
2 anabols are a little less than a can of soda at most gyms.  3-4 Bhatt each. Bush has the US$ trashed down to
34:1 Thai Batt at the present, with no floor in sight (from as high as 50:1)

The best fighting action for watching IMO is around the 125-135lb guys (I dont know the weight classes)
The action and speed just starts to suffer too much at even over around the 140lb mark. At 165 its outright dull. As for US style UFC fighting, yeah it's more realistic and brutal, but often boring as hell to watch. Two guys tied up going nowhere is dull. 

I can buy anavar powder from china for about 1/5th the price that I would buy it for in Europe. I think in thailand it will be even cheaper, especially testosteron, which would be the main steroid used for recovery.

But I guess this is pure speculation, off course steroid use is going to be less in poorer countries. But, since I'm pretty sure fights in Thailand aren't tested, I'm also pretty sure better athletes can easely obtain and will likely be juicing. The difference between juicing and not is just to high if there is too much at stake.

I do know of a fighter who's been on test for 2 years. He only uses 150-175mg of test-e a week, homebrew. I cannot mention prices, but as a comparison, he spends less than 1 pack of smokes on it a month. If that's not cheap I don't know what is.

trab

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2007, 01:26:51 PM »
I can buy anavar powder from china for about 1/5th the price that I would buy it for in Europe. I think in thailand it will be even cheaper, especially testosteron, which would be the main steroid used for recovery.

But I guess this is pure speculation, off course steroid use is going to be less in poorer countries. But, since I'm pretty sure fights in Thailand aren't tested, I'm also pretty sure better athletes can easely obtain and will likely be juicing. The difference between juicing and not is just to high if there is too much at stake.

I do know of a fighter who's been on test for 2 years. He only uses 150-175mg of test-e a week, homebrew. I cannot mention prices, but as a comparison, he spends less than 1 pack of smokes on it a month. If that's not cheap I don't know what is.

My wife is Thai Bud, I've spent plenty time there, including ringside, and party/ train w/ some fighters.BKK-Chaing Mai.
I know exactly whats available and for what price.
Even 8 cents a day counts to may of them folks there. Try and Live on $5 a day as a cop, teacher or RN. Thats what their pay converts to in US ca$h.
 
LuV2 also knows a thing or two about long term juice use & sides. We aint fighters and your right
in the BBing comparison.  But 150-175mg test is just: "Foreplay to HPTA shutdown" in the resident Docs words.
That level MAY HELP in preventing cortisal cascade that blows out Nat test levels, but it's not much of a dose.
Juice will also increase prothrombic (SP?) time - You BLEED LONGER before cloting. I dont see this as an advantage
for a fighter. Pro Wrestlers like to give blood. It sells tics, they prolly dig it. But I see it as a liability 4 fighter.
If it were me, I'd be experimenting w/ the Halo, Mythel, TSuspension, Pinks. I stay the hell away from Oxys, EQ, epo,
Deca(busted 4 sure) and other major red cell preferential builders. Maybe HGH can help recovery from the abuse, might be worth a shot.

Vertigo

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Re: CYCLE FOR PERFORMANCE/MMA?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2007, 03:33:08 PM »
My wife is Thai Bud, I've spent plenty time there, including ringside, and party/ train w/ some fighters.BKK-Chaing Mai.
I know exactly whats available and for what price.
Even 8 cents a day counts to may of them folks there. Try and Live on $5 a day as a cop, teacher or RN. Thats what their pay converts to in US ca$h.
 
LuV2 also knows a thing or two about long term juice use & sides. We aint fighters and your right
in the BBing comparison.  But 150-175mg test is just: "Foreplay to HPTA shutdown" in the resident Docs words.
That level MAY HELP in preventing cortisal cascade that blows out Nat test levels, but it's not much of a dose.
Juice will also increase prothrombic (SP?) time - You BLEED LONGER before cloting. I dont see this as an advantage
for a fighter. Pro Wrestlers like to give blood. It sells tics, they prolly dig it. But I see it as a liability 4 fighter.
If it were me, I'd be experimenting w/ the Halo, Mythel, TSuspension, Pinks. I stay the hell away from Oxys, EQ, epo,
Deca(busted 4 sure) and other major red cell preferential builders. Maybe HGH can help recovery from the abuse, might be worth a shot.

I wouldn't care much about bleeding, it does not happen that much with gloves. I remember getting cut above the eyebrow on cycle, I didn't notice any difference between the "bleeding-time" as well. Perhaps because I didn't care to count the time, maybe :D

I've found another topic about it.

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=5083b3152f52f7740c37c924d00e3949&threadid=17316