Author Topic: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals  (Read 2823 times)

240 is Back

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Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« on: April 27, 2007, 11:23:14 PM »
The drop in violence they attribute to the surge?

Could be the surge.

Could be that part of the surge means when they count the death toll, they ignore anyone killed by car bombings.  This is new.  These deaths were counted before in the death toll.   But not now.

interesting.

Hugo Chavez

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U.S. officials exclude bombs in touting drop in Iraq violence
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 09:28:44 AM »
Heard this on Bill Maher yesterday.

U.S. officials exclude bombs in touting drop in Iraq violence
By Nancy A. Youssef

McClatchy Newspapers

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - U.S. officials who say there has been a dramatic drop in sectarian violence in Iraq since President Bush began sending more American troops into Baghdad aren't counting one of the main killers of Iraqi civilians.

Car bombs and other explosive devices have killed thousands of Iraqis in the past three years, but the administration doesn't include them in the casualty counts it has been citing as evidence that the surge of additional U.S. forces is beginning to defuse tensions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

President Bush explained why in a television interview on Tuesday. "If the standard of success is no car bombings or suicide bombings, we have just handed those who commit suicide bombings a huge victory," he told TV interviewer Charlie Rose.

Others, however, say that not counting bombing victims skews the evidence of how well the Baghdad security plan is protecting the civilian population - one of the surge's main goals.

"Since the administration keeps saying that failure is not an option, they are redefining success in a way that suits them," said James Denselow, an Iraq specialist at London-based Chatham House, a foreign policy think tank

cont... http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/editorial/17134251.htm

240 is Back

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Re: U.S. officials exclude bombs in touting drop in Iraq violence
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2007, 09:46:38 AM »
I want everyone here who happily repeats "the surge is working!" to always add "even though much of the civilian death count drop is due to the reclassification of bombings".

This is laughable.  And even funnier is that people will ignore it.  You couldn't write this stuff - it just wouldn't be believable.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: U.S. officials exclude bombs in touting drop in Iraq violence
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 10:01:19 AM »
Last night's Bill Maher was priceless.  The Administration is doing so many things that are so contemptable, they're beyond spinning.  It's the first time I've seen Crickets from a Conservative commentator.  Lisa Schiffren was virtually left speechless with her head hanging low for the show. This was one of the several things that just left her lower jaw hanging without anything to say.

240 is Back

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Re: U.S. officials exclude bombs in touting drop in Iraq violence
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 10:17:43 AM »
Last night's Bill Maher was priceless.  The Administration is doing so many things that are so contemptable, they're beyond spinning.  It's the first time I've seen Crickets from a Conservative commentator.  Lisa Schiffren was virtually left speechless with her head hanging low for the show. This was one of the several things that just left her lower jaw hanging without anything to say.

Yep.  She denied we were taking Iraqi oil.  Then belzer started reeling off the proofs of this.  "Well, I don't know anything about that" was her response.

This flipping idiot had the audacity to make a blanket statement for millions of people that we weren't taking the oil - and she KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT.

It's dangerous that any ignorant fvck with a point of view can spout lies for millions of people like that.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2007, 12:37:49 PM »
Shitty attempt at trying to manipulate the death toll.

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2007, 05:45:56 PM »
Another thread that qualifies for a

CRICKETS

from the board neotaints. Perhaps they're too enraged that a church is allowing homosexual unions to be concerned with Bush's attempt to fudge the number of deaths in order to make his surge look more successful.

Cap

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2007, 05:48:23 PM »
Could it be because we aren't the cause of them.....?  I wouldn't put a Confirmed kill on my kill book if an RPG really took the fucker out while I had him in my sights.
Squishy face retard

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2007, 05:51:58 PM »
Could it be because we aren't the cause of them.....?  I wouldn't put a Confirmed kill on my kill book if an RPG really took the fucker out while I had him in my sights.

Bwahhhaaaaaaaahhaaaaaaaa aaa

You neotaints need to regroup and come up with a more plausible lie for this.

youandme

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 07:16:45 PM »
Could it be because we aren't the cause of them.....?  I wouldn't put a Confirmed kill on my kill book if an RPG really took the fucker out while I had him in my sights.

hahaha wtf?

I guess your tight I'm glad the us takes pride in it's confirmed kills, unless the US uses a RPG to directly kill them, it just does not look good in the books

240 is Back

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2007, 07:32:01 PM »
Could it be because we aren't the cause of them.....?  I wouldn't put a Confirmed kill on my kill book if an RPG really took the fucker out while I had him in my sights.


hahaha but the messed up thing here is that they USED to include these attacks in the death totals.

now that they have an urgent need to show improvement, they CHANGE it.

The surge result number in september will be skewed as a result, there is no denying it.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2007, 07:32:06 PM »
LOL Cap, it's not about our kills.  These deaths were left out in calculating the success of the surge in lowering sectarian violence.  So they fail to count the deaths caused by a bomb and only add up the guys who received one on one attention with a drill through their head :P

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 07:37:04 PM »

hahaha but the messed up thing here is that they USED to include these attacks in the death totals.

now that they have an urgent need to show improvement, they CHANGE it.

The surge result number in september will be skewed as a result, there is no denying it.

Sure there is, for neotaints.

BTW, when are you going to copyright "neotaint" so that you can collect your rightful payment every time one of us uses the term?  ;D

I owe you about $10 just for my posts tonight.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2007, 07:39:52 PM »
The funniest part, is the lame ass responce from a guy busted red handed with an ace up his sleeve:

President Bush explained why in a television interview on Tuesday. "If the standard of success is no car bombings or suicide bombings, we have just handed those who commit suicide bombings a huge victory," he told TV interviewer Charlie Rose.

AHahahhahaha... WTF??? Oh brother ::)

Cap

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2007, 07:46:26 PM »
I'm sure it's funny that I think this way but that's how I would total deaths because US forces weren't the cause of the violence or maybe because they cannot accurately count deaths with car bombings occurring.  Here is the rest of the article that was left out by Berserker, explaining some reasons.  Read and decide for yourself.  I really could care if you guys laugh at my opinion. 

"Overall, statistics indicate that the number of violent deaths has declined significantly since December, when 1,391 people died in Baghdad, either executed and found dead on the street or killed by bomb blasts. That number was 796 in March and 691 through April 24.

Nearly all of that decline, however, can be attributed to a drop in executions, most of which were blamed on Shiite Muslim militias aligned with the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Much of the decline occurred before the security plan began on Feb. 15, and since then radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has ordered his Mahdi Army militia to stand down.

According to the statistics, which McClatchy reporters in Baghdad compile daily from Iraqi police reports, 1,030 bodies were found in December. In January, that number declined 32 percent, to 699. It declined to 596 February and again to 473 in March.

Deaths from car bombings and improvised explosive devices, however, increased from 361 in December to a peak of 520 in February before dropping to 323 in March.

In that same period, the number of bombings has increased, as well. In December, there were 65 explosive attacks. That number was unchanged in January, but it rose to 72 in February, 74 in March and 81 through April 24.

U.S. officials blame the bombings largely on al-Qaida, which they say is hoping to provoke sectarian conflict by targeting Shiite neighborhoods with massive explosions.

Ryan Crocker, who became the U.S. ambassador in Iraq this month, said the bombings are a reaction to the surge of additional U.S. troops into Baghdad.

"The terrorists like al-Qaida would make their own surge," Crocker said this week.

U.S. officials have said that they don't expect the security plan to stop bombings.

"I don't think you're ever going to get rid of all the car bombs," Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said this week. "Iraq is going to have to learn as did, say, Northern Ireland, to live with some degree of sensational attacks."

But some think that approach could backfire, with Iraqis eventually blaming the Americans for failing to stop bombings.

"To win, the insurgents just have to prove they are not losing," said Denselow, of London's Chatham House.

Experts who have studied car bombings say it's no surprise that U.S. officials would want to exclude their victims from any measure of success.

Car bombs are almost impossible to detect and stop, particularly in a traffic-jammed city such as Baghdad. U.S. officials in Baghdad concede that while they've found scores of car bomb factories in Iraq, they've made only a small dent in the manufacturing of these weapons.

Mike Davis, who recently wrote a history of car bombs, said that once car bombs are introduced into a conflict, they're all but impossible to eradicate. A few people with rudimentary skills can assemble one with massive effect."


(insert response from cardio: typical neotaint...blah, blah, blah.)
Squishy face retard

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2007, 07:54:50 PM »
Here is the rest of the article that was left out by Berserker, explaining some reasons. 
::) I didn't leave out the rest of the article.  It's standard to copy the first portion and link to the whole article ::)  And the reasings are just as laughable as Bush's, nice try.

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2007, 07:56:11 PM »
OK, sorry cap, I won't mention the neotaint thing.

I'm curious if you can explain why car bombs used to be counted but since the surge aren't counted. Why all of a sudden did they stop counting car bomb deaths?

Cap

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2007, 08:00:24 PM »
OK, sorry cap, I won't mention the neotaint thing.

I'm curious if you can explain why car bombs used to be counted but since the surge aren't counted. Why all of a sudden did they stop counting car bomb deaths?
Lol...I like being a smart ass.  It's okay.  Anyway, I would say that yes it is a media spin especially since other death is going down so it looks even better (as said in the article).  I would think to point what one analyst said in there.  Essentially IEDs and car bombs are not going to go away once implemented.  That is valid because of the nature of the device so they write it off as a non-issue.  Spin?  Sure.  Justified?  Possibly.
Squishy face retard

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2007, 08:04:32 PM »
OK, sorry cap, I won't mention the neotaint thing.

I'm curious if you can explain why car bombs used to be counted but since the surge aren't counted. Why all of a sudden did they stop counting car bomb deaths?
Because to do so, would be siding with the terrorists ???


 :P

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2007, 08:06:39 PM »
  Justified?  Possibly.
are you serious ??? lol

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2007, 08:15:00 PM »
Lol...I like being a smart ass.  It's okay.  Anyway, I would say that yes it is a media spin especially since other death is going down so it looks even better (as said in the article).  I would think to point what one analyst said in there.  Essentially IEDs and car bombs are not going to go away once implemented.  That is valid because of the nature of the device so they write it off as a non-issue.  Spin?  Sure.  Justified?  Possibly.

Just once I'd love to hear someone of your belief system (euphemism for neotaint  ;D) admit that this administration screwed up.

And come on with the "Justified? Possibly." line.

240 is Back

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2007, 08:16:25 PM »
I'm curious if you can explain why car bombs used to be counted but since the surge aren't counted. Why all of a sudden did they stop counting car bomb deaths?


When september comes, they will give us numbers which compare the NEW numbers with the OLD numbers.

problem is, the OLD numbers include carbombings, and the NEW numbers will not.  Even if they show a reduction in deaths, the drop is misleading, because we're comparing two diff things:

OLD (Non carbombings + carbombings)

vs.

NEW (non carbombings).





To believe the two are the same is embarassingly pathetic of anyone.  


Cap

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2007, 08:16:51 PM »
are you serious ??? lol
Why report something you cannot stop especially when other violence is down and is dropping?  It literally is something that cannot be foreseen and unless you send robots in instead of people or evacuate whole cities, these deaths are going to occur.  I'm not saying it is a great move considering the current climate but not many people look into this stuff.  I debate libs every day in classes and all are against Bush and the war and most can only say they don't like the loss of life (American BTW) and don't like Bush.  For people here that see somewhat read individuals these issues would stand out.  From a political stance, wouldn't you put a positive spin on things?  This isn't just a Bush phenomena.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2007, 08:19:42 PM »
Because to do so, would be siding with the terrorists ???


 :P

Good point, and did you know that we're siding with and supporting the terrorists for questioning this issue?  >:(

egj13

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Re: Car bombs NO LONGER COUNTED in Iraq death totals
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2007, 07:49:28 AM »
The drop in violence they attribute to the surge?

Could be the surge.

Could be that part of the surge means when they count the death toll, they ignore anyone killed by car bombings.  This is new.  These deaths were counted before in the death toll.   But not now.

interesting.

I don't think the progress or lack thereof of the surge is judged by the death toll by the military. You civilians maybe use it, but in the military we consider some losses as necessary. Don't ask me how many that is because I haven't been appointed to the JCS yet.