US Church backs same-sex marriage

[Dos Equis]

BB - I was responding to your comment above that some areas are black and white and some are gray

Why are you incapable of explaining this comment.  I've given you easy examples.  You should be able to apply your logic to more than the topic of homosexuality

Why are you incapable of extending your OBVIOUS point to another subject within the bible???

YAWN.  See prior responses to repeated questions.    

Straw Man philosophy:  "I never debate religion . . ."  "In my opinion it's pointless to debate with someone who holds a position without evidence or in contrary to evidence."

"Besides, my personal belief is anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill (for real) which again makes for a pointless discussion."

[egj13]

when man finds a way to procreate with another man without adoption or serrogate mother's I will say homosexuality is "right". Science is on my side religion be damned

[Straw Man]

YAWN.  See prior responses to repeated questions.    

Straw Man philosophy:  "I never debate religion . . ."  "In my opinion it's pointless to debate with someone who holds a position without evidence or in contrary to evidence."

"Besides, my personal belief is anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill (for real) which again makes for a pointless discussion."

Yes you've posted this at least 3 times now.

so what

will this be your excuse for being incapable of supporting your own statements.  

how about I retract my statements - will you then be able to answer my question?

All I've asked you is to simply expand on your own statement so that I can understand it.

What's the problem?

[Camel Jockey]

I'm fine with that and assume you're also agreeing that Christianity is a cult

How does one then interpret the sacred text of said religion - it seems like you take some stuff literally but then you ignore other stuff in part or in whole.

as I've asked from the beginning - who decides and What are the criteria?

Why are you incapable of answering this question?

I thinks all faiths are cults.

It's not for us to decide who takes what literally, rather it's up to the followers of the faith in question. If christians don't want to stone women for pre-marital sex, but at the same time discriminate against homosexuals based on what's written in their holy texts, then its their business.

It's like many moderate muslims choose not to prance around like Darth Vader, but choose not to eat pork. Call it stupidity, but they have the right to cherry pick what they like and don't like from their book of fairy tales.

[Dos Equis]

Yes you've posted this at least 3 times now.

so what

will this be your excuse for being incapable of supporting your own statements.  

how about I retract my statements - will you then be able to answer my question?

All I've asked you is to simply expand on your own statement so that I can understand it.

What's the problem?

"I become very cynical of any questions you ask.  I don't believe you are truly interested in discussing issues.  You simply try and find contradictions, "hypocrisy," etc.  That explains why, even though you "never debate religion,"  you quote chapter and verse when you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make.  It also explains why you refuse to quote the passages in the Bible, Old and New Testament, that condemn homosexuality.

You are disingenuous.  That's why I'm cynical of most of the questions you ask me."

Cutting and pasting is pretty easy.   

[Straw Man]

I thinks all faiths are cults.

It's not for us to decide who takes what literally, rather it's up to the followers of the faith in question. If christians don't want to stone women for pre-marital sex, but at the same time discriminate against homosexuals based on what's written in their holy texts, then its their business.

This thread started with a story about a US Church that supports same sex marriage.

If it's their business then what's the problem with this particular sect of this particular cult deciding to ignore the condemnation of gays too?

How about they switch it up and ignore the gay hating but enforce the stoning of non-virgins (is there another word for that?)

BTW - I'm against stoning non-virgins and I couldn't care less if two women or two men want to get married but I do think it's wrong to plough with an ox and an ass together

[Straw Man]

"I become very cynical of any questions you ask.  I don't believe you are truly interested in discussing issues.  You simply try and find contradictions, "hypocrisy," etc.  That explains why, even though you "never debate religion,"  you quote chapter and verse when you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make.  It also explains why you refuse to quote the passages in the Bible, Old and New Testament, that condemn homosexuality.

You are disingenuous.  That's why I'm cynical of most of the questions you ask me."

Cutting and pasting is pretty easy.   

Why don't you have some patience with me and help me understand your point of view.

I'm being sincere with my questions.  I don't understand how to differentiate between the black and white and the gray.  You seem to be able to do it so I'm asking you to help me out.

the only "cut and paste" parts are the quotes from the bible which I have referenced as such.

This is the same bible you use to support your (obvious) belief about homosexuality

How can you possibly have a problem with me asking you to explain other quotes from the same book?

[Straw Man]

"I become very cynical of any questions you ask.  I don't believe you are truly interested in discussing issues.  You simply try and find contradictions, "hypocrisy," etc.  That explains why, even though you "never debate religion,"  you quote chapter and verse when you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make.  It also explains why you refuse to quote the passages in the Bible, Old and New Testament, that condemn homosexuality.

You are disingenuous.  That's why I'm cynical of most of the questions you ask me."

Cutting and pasting is pretty easy.   

I haven't refused - I didn't see this question

If I find these sections and post them will you then explain how I should decide what quotes to take literally and which quotes I can ignore....and also how one goes about making this distinction?  I truly am having a problem understanding this and it seems like you're really skilled in this area and could help me out.

Is that a fair exchange?

[Dos Equis]

I haven't refused - I didn't see this question

If I find these sections and post them will you then explain how I should decide what quotes to take literally and which quotes I can ignore....and also how one goes about making this distiction?  I truly am having a problem understanding this and it seems like you're really skilled in this area and could help me out.

Is that a fair exchange?

Actually, I'll do you one better.  When I get home tonight, and after watching my Lakers get drubbed by the Suns, American Idol, and Lost, I will quote them for you.  And we can discuss.  Perhaps you will have a different opinion and I'm perfectly willing to discuss, debate, or whatever.  And I'll discuss your stoning question too.   

Straw I have no trouble exchanging ideas, discussing, debating, etc.  When I believe someone is just jerking my chain (which I admittedly do), I don't take the discussion seriously.  But sounds like you're sincere.  We may not agree, and we don't have to, but I'm always willing to discuss.     

[Straw Man]

Actually, I'll do you one better.  When I get home tonight, and after watching American Idol and Lost, I will quote them for you.  And we can discuss.  Perhaps you will have a different opinion and I'm perfectly willing to discuss, debate, or whatever.  And I'll discuss your stoning question too.   

Straw I have no trouble exchanging ideas, discussing, debating, etc.  When I believe someone is just jerking my chain (which I admittedly do), I don't take the discussion seriously.  But sounds like you're sincere.  We may not agree, and we don't have to, but I'm always willing to discuss.     

BB - I swear I'm not trying to "jerk your chain" (that sounds kind of gay to me).

Yes - there are sections in the bible (some clear and some not so clear) that condemn homosexuality.   I'm agreeing with you on this so there is no need to debate it.  Just to be clear I'm agreeing that these quotes exist.  I'm not saying that I think they are valid.

The same goes for the quote about the stoning your unchaste daughter on her wedding night.  It exists and it is quite clear but I certainly don't agree with it.  Both these issues relate to sex so it is a relevent comparison.  In the case of one's daughter the sanctions are quite clear and draconian. 

There are also  plenty of other things that are condemed in the bible from farming techniques to clothing choices.
This list is long and ridiculous (IMO)

How does one choose what to follow and what to ignore and who get's to make that decision?   

That's all I've been asking you this entire time

It seems this stuff is obvious to you but it's not that obvious to me and I'm asking you to help me out.

[Dos Equis]

BB - I swear I'm not trying to "jerk your chain" (that sounds kind of gay to me).

Yes - there are sections in the bible (some clear and some not so clear) that condemn homosexuality.   I'm agreeing with you on this so there is no need to debate it.  Just to be clear I'm agreeing that these quotes exist.  I'm not saying that I think they are valid.

The same goes for the quote about the stoning your unchaste daughter on her wedding night.  It exists and it is quite clear but I certainly don't agree with it.  Both these issues relate to sex so it is a relevent comparison.  In the case of one's daughter the sanctions are quite clear and draconian. 

There are also  plenty of other things that are condemed in the bible from farming techniques to clothing choices.
This list is long and ridiculous (IMO)

How does one choose what to follow and what to ignore and who get's to make that decision?   

That's all I've been asking you this entire time

It seems this stuff is obvious to you but it's not that obvious to me and I'm asking you to help me out.

This has morphed in into a purely religious discussion.  I'm going to start a thread on the Religion board with some references to homosexuality and we discuss there how a church can accept those passages and endorse homosexual marriage. 

[Straw Man]

This has morphed in into a purely religious discussion.  I'm going to start a thread on the Religion board with some references to homosexuality and we discuss there how a church can accept those passages and endorse homosexual marriage. 

are you kidding? 

I've conceded that homosexualty is condemned in the bible - along with many many other things.

please address, as you agreed two posts up, the bibles instruction that your daughter be stoned to death on your front porch if she's not a virgin on her weddding night?

If you're unwilling or unable to do that then why don't you just explain your own comment which I've asked (and you've avoided) for the last two pages

I've asked you repeatedy to elaborate on your statement that some parts of the bible are black and white and some are gray.   I've given you examples that puzzle  me and I've asked for your help.

If you can't explain and support your own posititon (the black and white vs. gray statement) then just say so and I'll stop asking

Thanks

Actually, I'll do you one better.  When I get home tonight, and after watching my Lakers get drubbed by the Suns, American Idol, and Lost, I will quote them for you.  And we can discuss.  Perhaps you will have a different opinion and I'm perfectly willing to discuss, debate, or whatever.  And I'll discuss your stoning question too.       

[Dos Equis]

are you kidding? 

I've conceded that homosexualty is condemned in the bible - along with many many other things.

please address, as you agreed two posts up, the bibles instruction that your daughter be stoned to death on your front porch if she's not a virgin on her weddding night?

If you're unwilling or unable to do that then why don't you just explain your own comment which I've asked (and you've avoided) for the last two pages

I've asked you repeatedy to elaborate on your statement that some parts of the bible are black and white and some are gray.   I've given you examples that puzzle  me and I've asked for your help.

If you can't explain and support your own posititon (the black and white vs. gray statement) then just say so and I'll stop asking

Thanks

In response to your question, after much thoughtful deliberation, I have decided I would not support my daughter being stoned to death on my front porch.  Based on my understanding of the Bible, these ceremonial laws, rules, ordinances, etc. given to the Jews do not apply to us today.  If you'd like to discuss this further, please start a thread on the Religion Board. 

You are also free to express your opinions on a church endorsing homosexuality on the Religion board (I started a thread):   http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=146466.0

[Straw Man]

In response to your question, after much thoughtful deliberation, I have decided I would not support my daughter being stoned to death on my front porch.  Based on my understanding of the Bible, these ceremonial laws, rules, ordinances, etc. given to the Jews do not apply to us today.  If you'd like to discuss this further, please start a thread on the Religion Board. 

You are also free to express your opinions on a church endorsing homosexuality on the Religion board (I started a thread):   http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=146466.0

you really had to deliberate on that question?  Is that why it's taken you three days to answer

How about going back even earlier in this thread and responding to my question about YOUR STATEMENT - that some parts of the bible are black and white (such as homosexuality - in your opinion) and some parts are gray.

I've been asking you repeatedly to help me understand your statement

1.   What are the Gray Areas?
2.   Who get's to make that decision?

How many days of deliberation will it take this time?

BTW - thanks for pointing out the obvious.  I'm aware that I can post my opinions on other boards.  I've already stated my opinion about homosexuality, the bible and religion in general and you've been kind enough to repost them more than once.

My only purpose in this particular thread is trying to understand you, your statements and your point of view. 

[Dos Equis]

you really had to deliberate on that question?  Is that why it's taken you three days to answer

How about going back even earlier in this thread and responding to my question about YOUR STATEMENT - that some parts of the bible are black and white (such as homosexuality - in your opinion) and some parts are gray.

I've been asking you repeatedly to help me understand your statement

1.   What are the Gray Areas?
2.   Who get's to make that decision?

How many days of deliberation will it take this time?

BTW - thanks for pointing out the obvious.  I'm aware that I can post my opinions on other boards.  I've already stated my opinion about homosexuality, the bible and religion in general and you've been kind enough to repost them more than once.

My only purpose in this particular thread is trying to understand you, your statements and your point of view. 

I was being sarcastic.  It was a dumb question.     I usually don't answer dumb questions, but this one was apparently very important to you. 

And it didn't take me three days to answer.  I'm not on anyone's timetable.  I post when I have time.  I could care less if you don't like the "timeliness" of my responses to a dumb question. 

If you'd like to discuss further issues (gray areas, etc.) take it to the Religion board.  This is no longer a political discussion.   

[Straw Man]

I was being sarcastic.  It was a dumb question.     I usually don't answer dumb questions, but this one was apparently very important to you. 

And it didn't take me three days to answer.  I'm not on anyone's timetable.  I post when I have time.  I could care less if you don't like the "timeliness" of my responses to a dumb question. 

If you'd like to discuss further issues (gray areas, etc.) take it to the Religion board.  This is no longer a political discussion.   

Actually, I'll do you one better.  When I get home tonight.....And I'll discuss your stoning question too.   
  

Bum - you were the one who said you would answer 3 days ago. 

How could you consider any question about a rule given by God in the GOOD BOOK to be a dumb question?
Are you saying parts of this book are dumb or is it just dumb to question parts of it?

How do you decide  that one thing in this book is dumb yet something else is clearly black and white and a "no brainer" as you put it.  You seem to understand this stuff very well and all I've been doing is appealing to your vast wisdom on this subject.

Let's face it - god is quite clear on the issue of virginity.  If you're not a virgin on your wedding night (this seems to apply only to women) then you must be stoned to death.

It seems impossible to have an actual dialogue with you.   You repeatedly ignore request for futher explaination of your own statements.  I guess I should just assume that anything in the bible that confirms your pre-conceived prejudice is one of those obvious black and white areas and anything that you think it DUMB is must be one of those gray areas.

[Dos Equis]

   Just so we're clear on where you stand, please review the Beach Bum priority list:

1.  Faith
2.  Family
3.  Profession
4.  Call Mom and sister
5.  Drive iron
6.  Volunteer work
7.  Eat
8.  Hammock
9.  Read
10.  Teach
. . . .

50.  Wash car
. . .
150. Trim toe nails
. . .
999.  Respond to dumb questions on internet
1000.  Pick up feminine products for wife at Safeway   

[Straw Man]

  Just so we're clear on where you stand, please review the Beach Bum priority list:

1.  Faith
2.  Family
3.  Profession
4.  Call Mom and sister
5.  Drive iron
6.  Volunteer work
7.  Eat
8.  Hammock
9.  Read
10.  Teach
. . . .

50.  Wash car
. . .
150. Trim toe nails
. . .
999.  Respond to dumb questions on internet
1000.  Pick up feminine products for wife at Safeway   

is this really your list?

[Straw Man]

  Just so we're clear on where you stand, please review the Beach Bum priority list:

1.  Faith
2.  Family
3.  Profession
4.  Call Mom and sister
5.  Drive iron
6.  Volunteer work
7.  Eat
8.  Hammock
9.  Read
10.  Teach
. . . .

50.  Wash car
. . .
150. Trim toe nails
. . .
999.  Respond to dumb questions on internet
1000.  Pick up feminine products for wife at Safeway  

is this really your list?

seriously

your list seems totally normal

I just have one question

[gcb]

when man finds a way to procreate with another man without adoption or serrogate mother's I will say homosexuality is "right". Science is on my side religion be damned

by your argument sex for pleasure between a man and a woman would be wrong too

[egj13]

by your argument sex for pleasure between a man and a woman would be wrong too

If it wasn't for religion we wouldn't even have marriage. People originaly got married because casual sex was wrong in the lords eyes. Now they do it fir the tax breaks. I know you probably aren't religious so I don't expect you to understand.