Milos Sarcev responsible for bb being dropped in Asia?

[PORKY]

Years of competition and the total prize money is only $70,000?

[Vince B]

I have posted before that one of the ways that the IFBB controls the judging process is by the callouts. In theory any judge should be allowed to call out competitors to be compared. Who then chooses which judge's choice is going to be called out first or if in fact a judge did make that request. It seems to me that this whole process is absolutely vital to the process and should be transparent and recorded.

From what I have witnessed it is very easy for those involved with the judging to select who they want to place 1, 2, and 3 and call them out in the first round of comparisons. All the judges will instantly know that they had better place these 3 individuals in the top three. It would be a refinement of that process to place the second called out first because the winner stands in the middle.

I am not sure if this happens or has happened in the IFBB at the Olympia but it should not happen. Therefore, whoever is present to oversea the judging had better make sure the process is a fair one. The callouts have to be random and the judges can be numbered and each number called out by picking judge's name from a hat. For example, first callout from judge 2, then 6, then 4, etc. and then start over again. What must be obvious is that the Mr Olympia is seldom an obvious thing to judge. Occasionally someone stands out from the others but most of the time the differences are quite subtle.

If there is any hint of impropriety then those involved must be answerable and elections to remove everyone must be held annually just in case. It seems to me that the competitors should have a voice in selecting the IFBB judging officials.

[onlyme]

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How's that boys?

hahaha shot your load so much last year had to downgrade to a motorcycle.  And wasn't this motorcycle a prize at another show or something and the guy took cash instead.  Motorcycle giveaway in a location that is too cold to ride 4 to 6 months out of the year.  Good call.  Hope you have a great show Sean

[Slintowin]

YO Onlyme how many shows have you promoted how many times have you guest posed infact sense we always see you on the Olympia stage I better close my mouth huh.  I'm not sticking up for anyone but wth is everyone fighting for seems like everyone has got something against someone ridiculous absolutely ridiculous what happend to the golden era.......

[stuntmovie]

Vince, with all due respect to your intelligent response to the problem at hand, I have to ask if you are considering the problems that Milos is concerned about?

My suggestions about comparisons may seem absurd but with some modifications they could possibly solve the problem that he is concerned with.

I personally think that the judges should run the judging procedures in any valid manner which will help them make a valid and fair decision. Comparison or not!

But the point here is that some of the contestants feel that it should be done with a slight modification and if that does not affect the judging adversely, then maybe their suggestions should be incorporated into the judging procedures.

Absurd or not, I throw it out as a suggestion that just might lead the way to satisfaction among the rank and file.

Hell, for all we know the IFBB officials are probably working on this situaltion already.

One last thing before I sign off........

A lot of us accuse Chick and others of being a stooge or a puppet or some other derogatory term......

But I recall standing up for any firm I've ever worked for all my life .....  regardless of how an outsider felt. You're absolutely useless unless you stand up for the "firm" you're working with. ANd when you are on the inside you see things differently than those on the outside.

I have a brother in the oil business. Every time we get together I want to punch him in the nose because he defends the price of gas and laughs when he tells me that it will soon be hitting $5 a gallon. He owns the stock and it making a bundle. He laughs and I cry.

He justifies the $5 by asking me what I pay for a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

See the similarity?

[PORKY]

Looks like a separate thread is needed here.Seems like the debate has shot off tangent to the actual title of this thread.....

[stuntmovie]

Yea, Porky, sorry about that and thanks for the notice.

[New Hank Wood]

I have posted before that one of the ways that the IFBB controls the judging process is by the callouts. In theory any judge should be allowed to call out competitors to be compared. Who then chooses which judge's choice is going to be called out first or if in fact a judge did make that request. It seems to me that this whole process is absolutely vital to the process and should be transparent and recorded.

From what I have witnessed it is very easy for those involved with the judging to select who they want to place 1, 2, and 3 and call them out in the first round of comparisons. All the judges will instantly know that they had better place these 3 individuals in the top three. It would be a refinement of that process to place the second called out first because the winner stands in the middle.

I am not sure if this happens or has happened in the IFBB at the Olympia but it should not happen. Therefore, whoever is present to oversea the judging had better make sure the process is a fair one. The callouts have to be random and the judges can be numbered and each number called out by picking judge's name from a hat. For example, first callout from judge 2, then 6, then 4, etc. and then start over again. What must be obvious is that the Mr Olympia is seldom an obvious thing to judge. Occasionally someone stands out from the others but most of the time the differences are quite subtle.

If there is any hint of impropriety then those involved must be answerable and elections to remove everyone must be held annually just in case. It seems to me that the competitors should have a voice in selecting the IFBB judging officials.

Vince, you have been very persistent and patient with this thread.  Your arguments are well structured and follow a logical sequence.  I have enjoyed reading them, and have learnt a lot about this sport and how it operates.

Dont give up on the industry Vince.  If you keep chipping away, maybe just maybe, things will start to change!

[Vince B]

Stuntmovie may have a good suggestion. After the judges have had their comparisons anyone who feels dissatisfied can ask to be compared with others in the lineup, etc. That might have some utility and satisfy the competitors who feel overlooked. However, we would have to guard against some who might overrate their physiques.

[onlyme]

YO Onlyme how many shows have you promoted how many times have you guest posed infact sense we always see you on the Olympia stage I better close my mouth huh.  I'm not sticking up for anyone but wth is everyone fighting for seems like everyone has got something against someone ridiculous absolutely ridiculous what happend to the golden era.......

I have promoted 2 in this decade (at a cost of about $250,000 total) and helped in countless others in the past century.  I am not and have never said I was a bodybuilder or even thought about it, so guest posing remark is just stupid.  I have trained in about 25 years of training (not counting the past with allot of the industrys biggest names.  That does not make me an expert at all.  I have never said I was.  But at least when I say something 99% of the time I speak out of personal experience not hearsay, rumors or any other bullshit like most on here do.  I dont' pick fight cause I don't need to but I sure in the hell will defend myself.  This is a BB forum.  Pros come on here all the time.  Of all the pros, Sean reflects the worse image for Bodybuilding.  Sure he looked great when he competed but the fact is he never won the big one.  Now he is washed up, fat, sloppy and has nothing to do other than promote a show a mislead his sponsors.  I highly doubt his show will be here next year. Or at least Vyotech won't.  They have lost more money with Sean than anything.  No company will stand for that.  But lets see.  Good luck Sean

[dearth]

Can't comment on the Asian accusations, as I don't know all the facts/ people involved...I certainly would like to think they're not....

Here in the states....absolutely not.

So the INTERNATIONAL federeration of bodybuilders athletes representative has no clue of what goes on outside of his own country?

how can you claim contest fixing does not take place in the states, and then claim that certain people receive gifts in their placings?

[CQ]

So the INTERNATIONAL federeration of bodybuilders athletes representative has no clue of what goes on outside of his own country?

how can you claim contest fixing does not take place in the states, and then claim that certain people receive gifts in their placings?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Bob is the rep for pros, not amateurs as in extending the IFBB world amateurs and NPC.

[onlyme]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Bob is the rep for pros, not amateurs as in extending the IFBB world amateurs and NPC.

OK I'll correct you.  He has nothing to do with the competitors.  He is 100% IFBB rep not the members.  Hope this helps.  But he is trying.

[Vince B]

Bob is the IFBB pro rep who was appointed. Sort of a contradiction of terms. Onlyme is right that Bob is a patsy for the IFBB. The reason he is a stooge is because of the standing he gets with having that 'important' position. He then turns his status into money through contracts with the media, etc. Nice work if you don't mind the stench.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

I have promoted 2 in this decade (at a cost of about $250,000 total) and helped in countless others in the past century.  I am not and have never said I was a bodybuilder or even thought about it, so guest posing remark is just stupid.  I have trained in about 25 years of training (not counting the past with allot of the industrys biggest names.  That does not make me an expert at all.  I have never said I was.  But at least when I say something 99% of the time I speak out of personal experience not hearsay, rumors or any other bullshit like most on here do.  I dont' pick fight cause I don't need to but I sure in the hell will defend myself.  This is a BB forum.  Pros come on here all the time.  Of all the pros, Sean reflects the worse image for Bodybuilding.  Sure he looked great when he competed but the fact is he never won the big one.  Now he is washed up, fat, sloppy and has nothing to do other than promote a show a mislead his sponsors.  I highly doubt his show will be here next year. Or at least Vyotech won't.  They have lost more money with Sean than anything.  No company will stand for that.  But lets see.  Good luck Sean

Shawn Ray is the Vyotech Spokesman and representative, NOT THE CEO OR Chief Operations Officer.  You cannot blame him for the companies recent losses.  In fact, I think he's extended the life of Vyotech greatly.  Before Shawn, Vyotech had some cartoon bodybuilder with purple jelly around his mouth like he had just got finished giving a blowjob to Grimace from McDonalds and basically none of that stuff sold.


Vyotech losses recently is due to that Goat Whey protein they came out with. 

[Saxon]

Before Shawn, Vyotech had some cartoon bodybuilder with purple jelly around his mouth like he had just got finished giving a blowjob to Grimace from McDonalds and basically none of that stuff sold.

They didn't change much by employing Shawn

[Insider X]

Paul Chua has been a Weider supplement distributor for a very long time. He was one of Joe and Ben's first distributor, and they are very loyal to him, for 30 years. That stuff goes around all of the time.

Paul is the vice president in charge of Asia for the IFBB. Like Jim Manion is in charge of North America for the IFBB. 

Milos has a point regarding the judges, yet he should of been smart enough not to say something about a guy who is untouchable at the moment and friends with Ben and Joe.

[onlyme]

Before Shawn, Vyotech had some cartoon bodybuilder with purple jelly around his mouth like he had just got finished giving a blowjob to Grimace from McDonalds and basically none of that stuff sold.

When were you sponsored by Vyotech. 

[Milos_Sarcev]

Chick, I seriously doubt a Suspended "Alleged" Drug Dealer who pled No Contest,
A Former member of the IFBB shorty without a job,
And a Fat Man wrapped in Bed Sheets for clothes living on an Island is the South Pacific will ever really impact, change or affect the challenges in our sport and federation.
So let the mud slinging continue, as the Orange County Register is full of bad news and this form of intertainment from clowns with absolutely no relevant effect on our sport act like Industry Insiders

Hmmmmmm..."ALLEGED DRUG DEALER?"...only in your book...in your dreams...and your wishfull thinking...
I was never alleged to deal drugs...and it is obvious what you are purposely doing ALL THESE YEARS...making people believe that I maybe do DEAL DRUGS...
You got even DEA's interest...

However, you didn't have a single piece of information agents found remotely interesting to bring you to Iowa in front of Grand Jury...as they didn't want to waste any money...

You did coast them (Taxpayers) enough (millions)...as they spent fortune on my investigation...just to realize - it was only Shawn's wishful thinking and hope that I might actually have something or do something that I could regret - if agents only have a chance to search my house, gym...computers...etc... You were certain they will find SOMETHING...

Well - to clarify again: I was not charge with ANY ALLEGED DEALING...only YOU continue to suggest something like that.

I was charged to CONSPIRACY TO POSSES FOR PERSONAL USE!!!

Understand the difference?

You were starting these kind of rumors years ago - and I had to call you and tell you to stop...
You stopped for a while until you used the opportunity to speak to AGENTS and tell them your suspicions...and you are still continuing with your allegations...

You probably also called the IRS - hoping that I'll suffer on that end...

As I said - your sad view on life is: wishing others the worst...
Tragedies and missfortunes of others are your meaning of life...how sad...

And as far as Former IFBB without the job...is it too late to enter your show?
Send me application...I have three weeks to prepare...which is more than enough for me...off course if it's not too late...

After all - I better take advantage before I get temporally suspended...

And as far as my job...it is kind of hard loosing the job when you have several businesses...don't you think?

[warrior_code]

Bob is the IFBB pro rep who was appointed. Sort of a contradiction of terms. Onlyme is right that Bob is a patsy for the IFBB. The reason he is a stooge is because of the standing he gets with having that 'important' position. He then turns his status into money through contracts with the media, etc. Nice work if you don't mind the stench.

Are you sure you are not biased towards him? From my perspective, he is quite neutral with regards to both sides. 

[PORKY]

Paul Chua has been a Weider supplement distributor for a very long time. He was one of Joe and Ben's first distributor, and they are very loyal to him, for 30 years. That stuff goes around all of the time.

Paul is the vice president in charge of Asia for the IFBB. Like Jim Manion is in charge of North America for the IFBB. 

Milos has a point regarding the judges, yet he should of been smart enough not to say something about a guy who is untouchable at the moment and friends with Ben and Joe.

I know Paul Chua for a long time.In fact he is the reason i even started competing.But all things said and done...he isn't untouchable.
What you are saying is like just coz he does business with Joe and Ben,he's so influential that it's ok for him to screw bodybuilders of their rightful placings?

Now thats dogshit!!!

[dearth]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Bob is the rep for pros, not amateurs as in extending the IFBB world amateurs and NPC.

IFBB pro contests take place outside of the USA. Bob stated is not familiar with what goes on outside the USA

[musclecenter]

According to Channel NewsAsia via Yahoo! Singapore News - May 12 7:17 AM

More indoor sports could be out of Asian Games

SINGAPORE : Bodybuilding is out of the 2007 SEA Games in Thailand as well as the 2010 Asian Games.

And speculation is rife that other sports, such as bowling, might also be excluded.

This is not good news for Singapore which has been strong in these two sports.

Singapore won a total of 7 gold medals at the last two editions Asian Games.

Singapore has been a force to be reckoned with in bodybuilding in the region but the sport has had its fair share of criticisms.

For example, some quarters protested the two gold medals Singapore won in Busan in 2002, claiming that the judges were biased.

And now another blow to Singapore body-builders: the sport has been excluded from the SEA Games in Thailand which takes place at the end of the year.

Dr Varin Tansuphasiri, Deputy Secretary General, National Olympic Council Thailand, said: "One of the problem is the referee, I mean the judgement of the referee in this game. Many complain that it is not transparent. But the Federation itself is trying to correct this problem (so as) to make it transparent."

The Olympic Council of Asia has also confirmed that bodybuilding is out of the 2010 Asian Games.

Singapore Bodybuilding Federation President Paul Chua told Channel NewsAsia that he is appealing against both decisions.

Some observers say, besides bodybuilding, some sports will likely need to make way for other events which are increasingly included in the Asian Games.

Low Teo Ping, President, Singapore Sailing, said: "I think there are just too many events taking place in Asian Games that they have to rationalise in some ways. And because there is an outlet in the Indoor Games, events like bodybuilding and weightlifting may find its way there including even sports like bowling too."

But bowling enthusiasts disagree.

Jessie Phua, President, Singapore Bowling, said: "Swimming is also in the Indoor Games but it is on events which are not featured in your normal championship. It is the short course races. So in the same way bowling could also be in the Indoor Games but maybe on different formats. For instance the Baker Format where you have a team of five and you have the sum total of all the 5 different members making up the team event."

Being excluded from a regional tournament also means less support from the Singapore Sports Council.

It could also hit the pocket most.

Currently, as part of the Multi-Million dollar Award programme, athletes can earn S$250,000 for an Asian Games individual gold.

The Singapore National Olympic Council runs the programme.

It has made it clear that to qualify, athletes need to represent Singapore only in four multi-sport events - the SEA Games, Asian Games, Commonwealth Games and the Olympics. - CNA/ch

[War-Horse]

Bodybuilding and Bowling.  That seems about right.lol

[Vince B]

I think it should be obvious that getting more comparisons is hardly going to solve the judging issues re the IFBB and other bodybuilding organizations.