Sust and EQ cycle

[clayton green]

I am about 6 weeks into my first cycle of sust and EQ, 600 mgs each per week taken EOD.  I have not noticed any strength gains as of yet and was wondering if this is normal.

[udeluz]

Absolutely NOT, You should be a animal in the gym.

[clayton green]

What could be wrong?  Is it possible I could be overtraining?  I have been eating  clean, getting plenty of rest, etc.  There have been about 3-4 times during the past 6 weeks that I felt like an animal in the gym other than that I was actually stronger when I was training natural on creatine.  According to the Board members, the sust and bold I am taking is  good  gear. My supplier is a local gym rat who uses the same gear, recently competed and took 5th place.  I don't understand.  I am also taking .5cc of liquidex aka a-dex ed as recommended by another board member.

[Luv2Hurt]

What could be wrong?  Is it possible I could be overtraining?  I have been eating  clean, getting plenty of rest, etc.  There have been about 3-4 times during the past 6 weeks that I felt like an animal in the gym other than that I was actually stronger when I was training natural on creatine.  According to the Board members, the sust and bold I am taking is  good  gear. My supplier is a local gym rat who uses the same gear, recently competed and took 5th place.  I don't understand.  I am also taking .5cc of liquidex aka a-dex ed as recommended by another board member.

That still dont mean the gear is not fake.  You should feel a little localized pain at the injection area for a couple days. Have you had any pain from the shots?

[Overload]

You should feel a little localized pain at the injection area for a couple days. Have you had any pain from the shots?

Yes he has, he posted about it earlier.

This guy should be destroying weights by now.

[Luv2Hurt]

Yes he has, he posted about it earlier.

This guy should be destroying weights by now.

Yeah bro but not everybody has it in em    Takes a special breed to be in there doing battle with the iron for real.

[Overload]

Yeah bro but not everybody has it in em    Takes a special breed to be in there doing battle with the iron for real.

That's very true.

once i get that energetic feeling from the test i turn into a different animal. on the way to the gym i'm squeezing the shit out of my steering wheel just to get myself ready for action.

the gear helps but there is a mental switch i need to turn on the get a truely brutal workout. somedays i just don't have that feeling. other days i'm hitting heavy weights like nothing. i need to fire myself up sometimes, get into the zone and the rest is pure energy.

[clayton green]

I have been training my ass of for the past 28 years and during the past 5-6 weeks 2-3 hours in the gym 3-4 times per week.  I did get the inject site pains, sust flu, night sweats, chills, etc.  Some say that it should have kicked in in two weeks and other say it may take 8 weeks.  Even my wife has not noticed any change in body size.  Hell I was stonger in March when I was natural.  I spent $2,000.00 on this shit and hope that I did not get ripped off.  I mean I now know that he ripped me off on the price but I was hoping at least the shit was good!!

[udeluz]

2-3 hours in the gym?  I would say thats too much and maybe you are overtraining.

I am there 1-1.5 hours depending what group I am doing that day.

Are you getting any rest?

[trab]

I have been training my ass of for the past 28 years and during the past 5-6 weeks 2-3 hours in the gym 3-4 times per week.  I did get the inject site pains, sust flu, night sweats, chills, etc.  Some say that it should have kicked in in two weeks and other say it may take 8 weeks.  Even my wife has not noticed any change in body size.  Hell I was stonger in March when I was natural.  I spent $2,000.00 on this shit and hope that I did not get ripped off.  I mean I now know that he ripped me off on the price but I was hoping at least the shit was good!!

4-6 wks is where it really ought to start to build up nicelly. Strength and swelling. Keep on training.
This here is real cheap-O Roid test: Take a small amt, and put a couple drops of water in it. OUght to get chrystalization, thats the active steroid. Hate to waste it, but... someone may need a talk to, huh?

Also,Lots of HGH gets switched for some HCG (cheap). a home Prego test kit will score a + on HCG.
Sex drive up? Zits? Hungery? Got access to other shot to compare?

[Arnold jr]

2-3 hours in the gym?  I would say thats too much and maybe you are overtraining.

I am there 1-1.5 hours depending what group I am doing that day.

Are you getting any rest?

You're right, that is way to long, especially if that's simply lifting. I used to make this mistake and it was a hard habit to break. i love lifting, and in my mind for the longest time, if I lifted more (longer sessions) then I'd grow more...obviously it does not work this way. These days, my training never takes more then an hour, never, and it's often done in a little less time. Back and legs can still take up most of an hour, but for chest, arms and shoulders, we're looking at about 45min...if I do a lot of supper sets, maybe a little less.. Of course if you add in cardio time, then you are looking at 2+ hours in the gym, but that's a different animal all together.

[clayton green]

4-6 wks is where it really ought to start to build up nicelly. Strength and swelling. Keep on training.
This here is real cheap-O Roid test: Take a small amt, and put a couple drops of water in it. OUght to get chrystalization, thats the active steroid. Hate to waste it, but... someone may need a talk to, huh?

Also,Lots of HGH gets switched for some HCG (cheap). a home Prego test kit will score a + on HCG.
Sex drive up? Zits? Hungery? Got access to other shot to compare?

I got all of my stuff, sust, test-Prop, Bold and Test-400 from the same source.  You said to take a small amount and put some water on it.  How long should it take  to crystalize?  I will try it on everything that I have.  If his stuff is bad, I suspect everything is bad.  BTW,  I am getting 10 plus hours of sleep per day plus naps here and there.

[clayton green]

Before going on the cycle I was training the 5x5 system, no more than an hour in the gym but my source told me to train with more volume, so that's the only reason I have been training this much.  Additionally, I got a suggestion from someone to subsitute one of my sust injects with the test -400 and to run 50 mg of test-prop every day and that if nothing happens within two weeks that more than likely the stuff is bad.


When I ran my first shot of test-400 I ran it with TEst -prop and did not feel any injection pain.  the test-400 was thick as hell and took a long time to inject.

[clayton green]

I wanted to add that when I first started I was injecting the sust and bold 2x per week.  It was at this time that I experienced the chills, night sweats, flu symptoms and extreme inject sites. However, when I started inject eod, the symptoms went away.  Could this be becuase the dosage of my AAS is very low/beat/cut.  Also, back when I was injecting 2x per week there were 4-5 occasions that i did feel very strong in the gym like i was on something but since going to eod I have not felt like that.  In fact I have lost about 1/2 inch on my biceps since I went on the AAS. Even my wife has noticed.

[sgt. d]

I have been training my ass of for the past 28 years and during the past 5-6 weeks 2-3 hours in the gym 3-4 times per week.  I did get the inject site pains, sust flu, night sweats, chills, etc.  Some say that it should have kicked in in two weeks and other say it may take 8 weeks.  Even my wife has not noticed any change in body size.  Hell I was stonger in March when I was natural.  I spent $2,000.00 on this shit and hope that I did not get ripped off.  I mean I now know that he ripped me off on the price but I was hoping at least the shit was good!!

2,000? You spent over 2,000 on a sust and eq cycle? How many weeks are you going for?

[Arnold jr]

Before going on the cycle I was training the 5x5 system, no more than an hour in the gym but my source told me to train with more volume, so that's the only reason I have been training this much.  Additionally, I got a suggestion from someone to subsitute one of my sust injects with the test -400 and to run 50 mg of test-prop every day and that if nothing happens within two weeks that more than likely the stuff is bad.


When I ran my first shot of test-400 I ran it with TEst -prop and did not feel any injection pain.  the test-400 was thick as hell and took a long time to inject.

High volume works for some guys, typically it works well for genetic freaks because anything works for them. I personally don't advocate super low volume like Dorians methods or the DC protocol. But I do beelive in finding a good balance, but I think for most that balance is found further from high volume...we say it all the time and some times it gets old, but everyone is differant. Also, I think a lot of guys who have had decent success training extremely high volume, would be even more successful if they simply drooped their work load down a tad and focused on the importance of diet and rest a littel more.

As far as listening to your source, well, I think we've pretty well established that he is an asshole, he did rip you off. So why would you take any advice from this guy?

[trab]

4-6 wks is where it really ought to start to build up nicelly. Strength and swelling. Keep on training.
This here is real cheap-O Roid test: Take a small amt, and put a couple drops of water in it. OUght to get chrystalization, thats the active steroid. Hate to waste it, but... someone may need a talk to, huh?

Also,Lots of HGH gets switched for some HCG (cheap). a home Prego test kit will score a + on HCG.
Sex drive up? Zits? Hungery? Got access to other shot to compare?

I got all of my stuff, sust, test-Prop, Bold and Test-400 from the same source.  You said to take a small amount and put some water on it.  How long should it take  to crystalize?  I will try it on everything that I have.  If his stuff is bad, I suspect everything is bad.  BTW,  I am getting 10 plus hours of sleep per day plus naps here and there.

Ive never added water, but I shattered a amp of Dutch Organon SUS between my fingers, and It chrystalized allover them. The very same kind of chrystals Ive seen form in a 10cc vial of SUS that must have got some condensation in it
from a big ass temp change. (it was opened, went from close to 0-77 degrees rapidly, stupid me.) I warmed vial in cup of warm water and redisolved them. Ive heard of this before. I forget where I read about adding water to test,Aurthor L Rae I believe, but moisture will make that stuff precipitate out. I would only try a little bit.
You may be big and strong, but not respond that well? It is sad but true for some. I think the stuff is underdosed at best meself. Dont get in trouble, I'd be F'n pissed, and I can tell you R2 !

[clayton green]

Thanks!  I tried putting a little water on the sust today but the water just stayed on top of the stuff.  Also, I did a single inject of Test-Prop today that I got from the A-hole and it did not burn.  Is that  a bad sign?  I took  one yesterday but cut it with the t-400 he sold me and it did not hurt as well.  It's one thing getting ripped off for the cost of the AAS but then to get cut or even perhaps oil is even worse.  Your right trab I am pissed!!!  This was my first time after 28 years of natural lifting and looked what happened.  I though that I was on my way to one of the best bodies I had in years this summer.  Now it looks as though that I am going to have to start all over.  I am sending 1cc of the sust to another guy I know who is going to test it for me but I think I already know the results.  I mean if the stuff was good I would have to respond to it, wouldn't I.  As I said before, I went through all the sust flu, chills, night sweats, inject site pains, would oil alone do this?  Are these side effects does dependent?  Woudl I still get the  symptoms regardless if the sust is 2mg or 300mg?

Thanks Again everyone for all your help in answering all of my question over  the past 6 weeks!

[trab]

Thanks!  I tried putting a little water on the sust today but the water just stayed on top of the stuff.  Also, I did a single inject of Test-Prop today that I got from the A-hole and it did not burn.  Is that  a bad sign?  I took  one yesterday but cut it with the t-400 he sold me and it did not hurt as well.  It's one thing getting ripped off for the cost of the AAS but then to get cut or even perhaps oil is even worse.  Your right trab I am pissed!!!  This was my first time after 28 years of natural lifting and looked what happened.  I though that I was on my way to one of the best bodies I had in years this summer.  Now it looks as though that I am going to have to start all over.  I am sending 1cc of the sust to another guy I know who is going to test it for me but I think I already know the results.  I mean if the stuff was good I would have to respond to it, wouldn't I.  As I said before, I went through all the sust flu, chills, night sweats, inject site pains, would oil alone do this?  Are these side effects does dependent?  Woudl I still get the  symptoms regardless if the sust is 2mg or 300mg?

Thanks Again everyone for all your help in answering all of my question over  the past 6 weeks!

I tolerate TProp, but it do sting. Ive NEVER taken a shot of it, or SUS that didnt. Even all human pharma grade. 1/2 cc is about like a sweat bee to me. Ive done 4cc of SUS in a hip right before a leg workout. I wouldnt want to hit legs again for a good week . Shot timing to muscle group can help when you get some good stuff Clay. And Yeah, a shot of anything, even oil, is a foriegn invader to the body and it reacts a bit.

Dude, the 1st Dbols I took I was like a walking boner in a hour and a half. SUS? within a couple hours of just walking around, my legs felt like I pumped them up hard on a stationary bike. And my lateral delts pumped like I'd done several light sets of DB laterals. And it just kept geting better 4 weeks and weeks... Now dont THAT really piss you off? U Got a good bud to call and bail you out after you get your hands around his neck??? . No seriously dont lose it. Ive worked with to many guys who have.That parole officer shit is a pain.

[udeluz]

Thanks!  I tried putting a little water on the sust today but the water just stayed on top of the stuff.  Also, I did a single inject of Test-Prop today that I got from the A-hole and it did not burn.  Is that  a bad sign?  I took  one yesterday but cut it with the t-400 he sold me and it did not hurt as well.  It's one thing getting ripped off for the cost of the AAS but then to get cut or even perhaps oil is even worse.  Your right trab I am pissed!!!  This was my first time after 28 years of natural lifting and looked what happened.  I though that I was on my way to one of the best bodies I had in years this summer.  Now it looks as though that I am going to have to start all over.  I am sending 1cc of the sust to another guy I know who is going to test it for me but I think I already know the results.  I mean if the stuff was good I would have to respond to it, wouldn't I.  As I said before, I went through all the sust flu, chills, night sweats, inject site pains, would oil alone do this?  Are these side effects does dependent?  Woudl I still get the  symptoms regardless if the sust is 2mg or 300mg?

Thanks Again everyone for all your help in answering all of my question over  the past 6 weeks!

Alot on this board will be interested in those results, As far as I know you have GPL

I have used him for the last 2 cycles and have been up 20lbs+ on each one.

It really sucks that this gym rat is the middle man, that throws your customer service out the window.

[Overload]

GPL T-400 should KILL the day after an injection. i had to mix it with sterile oil just to tolerate the pain. the first 1cc delt injection kept me out of the gym for almost 5 days, i couldn't even raise my arm enough to drive my car.

your shit must be bunk, i've been using GPL for along time.

[clayton green]

I believe the t-400 is denkall labs out of mexico.  I heard they went out of business some time ago.  The expiration on the t-400 is 7/2007 but I am told it should still be good for another year. 

I increased my calories and protien when I started the gear but never kept a log on it.  I would have thought that if the stuff was real that I still would have made some strength gains, wouldn't I.  My wife even noticed that I have lost size in my arms.  When I measured them, I had lost 1/2 to 3/4 inches.  My arms usually respond well to low volume and heavy weight but when I started the so called gear, I increased the volume.

I started the t-400 and test prop on Sunday and was told that if I don't notice any thing in 2 weeks that this is bad as well.  The test prop is from GPL.  I don't blame the UG labs, I blame the middle man!  I should have listened to my instincts.  He was late on his house and car payments and could not even afford to get his car out of the shop until I fronted him the money for the gear.  I suspose he needed more money so he cut the gear and sold it to someone whom he had been dealing with and figured that since this was my first cycle that I would not figure it out.

[trab]

I learned long ago not to get involved in work-Biz w/ guys who have payment issues like that.
Just bad risk all around.

[Overload]

Sounds like you may have been ripped. Sorry to hear that but it happens alot.

As far as increasing the volume there really isn't any reason to. the heavier weights used, better protein synthesis and higher intensity should be enough to make gains. i have never had better results by adding volume under any circumstance. many will disagree but some of the biggest men on this earth (Ronnie, Dorian, J Jackson) do less than 20 sets per LARGE muscle group. i do around 14-16 sets MAX when i'm following a Bodybuilding protocol. when powerlifting i sometimes only do 10-12 sets and make very drastic gains in strength.

[clayton green]

One of the other board members said I could try heating a cc or two of the sust to see if the oil separated from the gear but it didn't work.  They also said that the gear should have a battery acid taste, which it did but I guess that does not guarantee the potency of the AAS.  He also said that maybe by me using a 1" pin in the glutes that it  is not going in far enough, so the last couple of injects into the glutes have been with 1 1/2 pins.  I use 1" for delts and quads.  I tried the inner thigh today for the first time and must have hit a nerve as I only went in a little and felt it.  So I decided to go to my usual outer quad site. 

I just can't figure this one  out as I am experiencing the hormones of a 16 year old, all the symptoms of the sust flu, just not an increase in strength or  size.  I have called the guy I purchased the stuff from the last 4 days but he has not returned any of my calls.  I guess that says volumes.  I will keep sticking myself for another week and a half just on the off chance that the test prop and t-400 may be good.  If no results by then, I will start all over with a new source and routine!!!!