How Can A Church Endorse Homosexual Marriage

[Straw Man]

LOL.  In his continuing quest to rile Beach Bum, Straw Man continues to try and provoke him with various ridiculous, rambling comments.  Perhaps he will eventually figure out that he is wasting his time, even though his entertainment value is still good.  He gets an "F" for execution, but a "C" for effort.  Maybe he can improve his grades over time.    

I'll make it less personal

your point of view is idiotic

your entire premise is based on your own infallable common sense

By your own admission your wife and other christian friend don't understand your point of view either

One would think that people who also share your christian faith would be able to understand your beliefs if only you could present a cogent argument.

Why are you unable to support your position without drawing on the circular reasoning of "it's just common sense"?

Why are you too stupid to understand this?

[OzmO]

I get that?  I don't view Lot's actions any differently than any other person who made a mistake (assuming that's what it was).  For example, David committed a heinous act by sleeping with Bathsheba and then sending her husband off to die to cover up the fact he got her pregnant.  David's act doesn't make the Bible any less the "word of God," because David did something wrong. 

You are focusing on the act only....I'm not.   It's how the act is interpreted or judged or lacked there of, by the writer

[Dos Equis]

I'll make it less personal
. . .

Why are you too stupid to understand this?

Tsk tsk.  An "F" for performance and "D" for effort.  Clearly regressing.     

[Dos Equis]

You are focusing on the act only....I'm not.   It's how the act is interpreted or judged or lacked there of, by the writer

Not really.  If the act isn't mentioned at all by the writer, it's kind of hard to draw conclusions on how the act was judged.   

The writer says nothing about Lot's offer.  In fact, Lot doesn't fare well at all in that story and his life in general.  He started off by choosing to live in Sodom, because he thought that land was prime real estate.  He then lost his home.  He didn't do a standup job raising his daughters.  He was married to a materialistic wife, who died.  His daughters wound up essentially raping him.  Pretty dark ending for Lot.    

[Colossus_500]

Perhaps the sinfulness spoken of in Sodom and Gomorrah was rape, and not homosexuality?

This isn't the only case in scripture with regard to the topic.  Read Judges 19.

[Colossus_500]

My recommendation for you (though it may be a tad over your head):

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Bible-Third/dp/1592573894/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-0316134-7265524?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178691982&sr=1-2

OUCH!!!   

[Colossus_500]

The Bible will NEVER make sense to one who tries to understand it without the presensce of a personal relationship with God. 

[loco]

Yo, Beach Bum and Colossus_500, props to you both!   

[Straw Man]

Tsk tsk.  An "F" for performance and "D" for effort.  Clearly regressing.     

yet still no cogent answer on why the condemnation of homosexuality is valid yet the condemnation (and required stoning death) of an unchaste woman is not. 

The same goes for they myriad of other transgressions.

How about an easier one:  Exodus 31:15

Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

That seems pretty clear.

Can you run this through the Beach Bum common sense algorithm and tell me if this still applies

[Straw Man]

The Bible will NEVER make sense to one who tries to understand it without the presensce of a personal relationship with God. 

I see your point. 

It might make more sense if I had a personal relationship with a figment of my imagination.

 That must be what Bum is talking about when he says these things are just common sense. 

[Straw Man]

Tsk tsk.  An "F" for performance and "D" for effort.  Clearly regressing.     

Nice job cutting and pasting my quote.  Heres' the part you left out:
-----------------------------
your entire premise is based on your own infallable common sense

By your own admission your wife and other christian friend don't understand your point of view either

One would think that people who also share your christian faith would be able to understand your beliefs if only you could present a cogent argument.

Why are you unable to support your position without drawing on the circular reasoning of "it's just common sense"?
------------------------------

[Colossus_500]

Yo, Beach Bum and Colossus_500, props to you both!   

Thanks, Loco!   

[Dos Equis]

The Bible will NEVER make sense to one who tries to understand it without the presensce of a personal relationship with God. 

I completely agree.  This is particularly true if the person is reading the Bible simply to try and find contradictions, problems, etc.

[Dos Equis]

Yo, Beach Bum and Colossus_500, props to you both!   

Muchas gracias.   

[Colossus_500]

It might make more sense if I had a personal relationship with a figment of my imagination.

Hence, the reason you are at the point of the life in which you live.  

[Colossus_500]

I completely agree.  This is particularly true if the person is reading the Bible simply to try and find contradictions, problems, etc.

Exactly, bro.  And it's funny to see so many conversions in the process of proving that God doesn't exist.  We end up with great authors like Lee Stroebel!

[Dos Equis]

Nice job cutting and pasting my quote.  Heres' the part you left out:
-----------------------------
your entire premise is based on your own infallable common sense

By your own admission your wife and other christian friend don't understand your point of view either

One would think that people who also share your christian faith would be able to understand your beliefs if only you could present a cogent argument.

Why are you unable to support your position without drawing on the circular reasoning of "it's just common sense"?
------------------------------

Quote from: Straw Man on Today at 07:24:22 AM
I'll make it less personal
. . .

Why are you too stupid to understand this?
 

[chuckle] You have shown an inability to be consistent in the same thread and as the preceding excerpts show, you are unable to be consistent in the same post.  

[Dos Equis]

Exactly, bro.  And it's funny to see so many conversions in the process of proving that God doesn't exist.  We end up with great authors like Lee Stroebel!

lol.  I think Straw Man is Lee Stroebel in the making.     http://www.outreachspeakers.com/speakers/LeeStroebel.htm

[OzmO]

Not really.  If the act isn't mentioned at all by the writer, it's kind of hard to draw conclusions on how the act was judged.   

The writer says nothing about Lot's offer.  In fact, Lot doesn't fare well at all in that story and his life in general.  He started off by choosing to live in Sodom, because he thought that land was prime real estate.  He then lost his home.  He didn't do a standup job raising his daughters.  He was married to a materialistic wife, who died.  His daughters wound up essentially raping him.  Pretty dark ending for Lot.    

The act is Mentioned, however.

 And if his daughters were offered up to a horny mob, I'm not surprised of the mental damaged that might have led to them raping their Dad.

[loco]

lol.  I think Straw Man is Lee Stroebel in the making.     http://www.outreachspeakers.com/speakers/LeeStroebel.htm

So is OzmO.   

[OzmO]

So is OzmO.   

I'm not a former Atheist.      

[loco]

I'm not a former Atheist.      

I know, but you are set on proving the Bible is not 100% the word of God, that Jesus is not the Son of God, and that Jesus is not the only way to salvation from your sins.       

In trying to prove Christianity wrong, you are forced to read our posts, do research, learn more about the Bible, history and archeology, etc.  You are on your way, OzmO.     

[OzmO]

I know, but you are set on proving the Bible is not 100% the word of God, that Jesus is not the Son of God, and that Jesus is not the only way to salvation from your sins.       

In trying to prove Christianity wrong, you are forced to read our posts, do research, learn more about the Bible, history and archeology, etc.  You are on your way, OzmO.     

Actually, thought all this, I believe the Bible is even less the "Word of God" than when i started.

Not becuase of your actions, which are respectable, honorable and noteworthy as a person and a man of God, but because of the research involved in our debates.

Please don't forget, i have a very strong belief in God.  And what ever the real truth is, i believe.

[loco]

Actually, thought all this, I believe the Bible is even less the "Word of God" than when i started.

It's just a phase.  Keep digging.  Just try this, put a fraction of your same efforts in finding good things in the same book of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Numbers.  You'll be amazed at the good things that are found in the Bible that are not found in other texts, financial advice, health tips, even how to deal with toxic mold in your home.  I already know what you view as "evil" and "negative" in the Bible, but there is a lot more to it than that. 

Please don't forget, i have a very strong belief in God.  And what ever the real truth is, i believe.

I know you do, and I never forget.   

But I am a Christian and a believer in the Bible, and I must answer your questions and give you a reason for
 my faith if you ask me.

[OzmO]

It's just a phase.  Keep digging.  Just try this, put a fraction of your same efforts in finding good things in the same book of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Numbers.  You'll be amazed at the good things that are found in the Bible that are not found in other texts, financial advice, health tips, even how to deal with toxic mold in your home.  I already know what you view as "evil" and "negative" in the Bible, but there is a lot more to it than that. 

I realize that.

 Please don't take my focus on the questionable parts of the Bible as an indication that i think there isn't a whole lot of good in it.