Clemens back to NY Yankees...for $4.5 million a month

[Cap]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2862088

NEW YORK -- Roger Clemens returned to the New York Yankees, making a dramatic announcement to fans from the owner's box during Sunday's game against the Seattle Mariners.

Kruk On Clemens
John Kruk
This was an inevitable move for Roger Clemens. I've felt since spring training -- even after his politically correct answers to my questions -- that he was going to eventually sign with the Yankees despite his posturing with the Houston Astros and Boston Red Sox.

This was an easier decision for Roger because he has the opportunity to revive a great franchise that respects him as well as getting the chance to pitch with his old friend Andy Pettitte. For me, the reaction during the Mariners game when the team found out that Clemens was returning was priceless. This group of all-stars and fantastic ballplayers were like school children getting an early Christmas present when they heard the news.

That type of jolt can't be underestimated. The season is still young, and despite their pitching issues, the Yankees are still right in the mix for the division title. This is a team that needed good news after a bad start. They suffered through DL stint after DL stint for their pitching staff.

The return of Clemens will revitalize New York, but, in my estimation, it will also serve as a catalyst for the Red Sox. This is a squad that has seen the Yankees make big moves during the season before, so the Red Sox knew that Brian Cashman and George Steinbrenner wouldn't stand pat -- especially with this team. Now they know that arguably the best right-hander in the history of the game will be pitching for New York for roughly 20 starts. Everyone involved now knows that every game has become that much more important.

This has been a great rivalry in the past, but look for every game this season whether against each other or not, to take on playoff magnification due to the presence of Clemens in New York's rotation. I now expect a run from the Yankees that leads to the division being decided very, very late in the season.

-- ESPN Baseball Tonight analyst John Kruk

At the end of the seventh-inning stretch, Yankees public address announcer Bob Sheppard told fans to turn their attention to the box, where Clemens was standing with a microphone. As the video scoreboard in right-center showed Clemens, the seven-time Cy Young Award winner made the announcement himself.

"Well, they came and got me out of Texas and I can tell you it's a privilege to be back," Clemens said. "I'll be talking to y'all soon."

Clemens, who will turn 45 in August, agreed to a $28 million, one-year contract that will start when he is added to the major league roster, most likely in three to four weeks.

He begins with a minor league contract, and the deal will allow him to earn about $18.5 million. Clemens will start his workouts in Lexington, Ky., where his son Koby is playing in the Houston Astros' farm system.

"I'm about at playing weight right now," Clemens said. "I feel pretty good."

The Rocket pitched for New York from 1999-2003. He left the Yankees after the 2003 season, saying he was retiring, but after Andy Pettitte signed with the Astros, Clemens followed his friend to their hometown team.

Pettitte returned to the Yankees this year, and Clemens followed on Sunday.

"It's another challenge," said Clemens, eighth on the career list with 348 wins. "I expect to do things at the age of 44, 45 like I did at 25."

He chose New York over two of his other former teams, the Astros and Boston Red Sox.

"Let's face it -- these guys know how to win," Clemens said, adding that captain Derek Jeter pressed him to return as New York struggled early this season.

The Yankees have been beset by a rash of injuries to their pitching staff, contributing to a disappointing 14-15 start. But they beat the Mariners 5-0 on Sunday for their fifth victory in six games after losing eight of nine.

"Derek was on me once a week, especially when things weren't working out," Clemens said. "I see the problems with the pitching staff, too. The injuries are incredible."

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, was in Boston talking to the Red Sox on Thursday when talks with the Yankees intensified. Negotiations were held by e-mail and cell phone. By Friday evening, a deal was in place.

Clemens traveled to New York on Sunday, got to LaGuardia Airport at about 1 p.m., then went to a Manhattan hotel and changed. He got to Yankee Stadium in the sixth inning, then made the big announcement, prompting fans to chant his name.

He hadn't even told Pettitte or Jeter that it was a done deal.

"Andy is going to be pretty upset with me," Clemens said.

Clemens will have the same travel privileges he had with Houston last year, when he sometimes skipped road trips if he wasn't scheduled to pitch. Instead, he spent the time at home with his family and worked with Astros minor leaguers.

Yankees manager Joe Torre ran that issue by several clubhouse leaders who signed off on the arrangement, general manager Brian Cashman said.

"It's time to go to work," Clemens said. "I've got a lot of work to do to get back up here."

Traded from Toronto to the Yankees before the 1999 season, Clemens helped New York win consecutive World Series titles in his first two seasons in the Bronx. He won the AL Cy Young Award with a 20-3 record in 2001 and was a member of pennant winners that year and in 2003.

"As I pledged just a few days ago, I will do everything within my power to support Brian Cashman, Joe Torre and this team as we fight to bring a 27th championship to New York," owner George Steinbrenner said in a statement. "Roger Clemens is a winner and a champion, and he is someone who can be counted on to help make this season one that all Yankees fans can be proud of. The sole mission of this organization is to win a world championship."

[body88]

No surprise here really. Boston does not need him, thought the astros might want him, but looks like they wont be in contention. A large majority of  Boston fans (myself included) wanted nothing to do with Clemens. Frankly Boston does not need him, and 28 mill for 3 months work would not make sense for the Red Sox imo. Not when you have John Lester ready to move back into what is arguably the top rotation in baseball in its current state. Considering the sox have a bunch of young arms in the minors also, I knew he would be a yankee the second I heard he would return to help someone.

This makes sense for the Yankees tho. I believe the sox where bidding to try and drive the price as high as possible. Not that it matters to the Yankees. Good move on the Yankees part. They needed him and they got him.

[jmt1]

i am a sox fan who did want to see him back in boston.  i do agree that the sox dont really need him.  already have 3 number one starters and from the business side of things it was too much money. 

 would have like to seen him back because ive always been a clemens fan even after he left boston.  it would have been great to see him back in that redsox uniform and have him win a world series and retire as a redsox.

[body88]

i am a sox fan who did want to see him back in boston.  i do agree that the sox dont really need him.  already have 3 number one starters and from the business side of things it was too much money. 

 would have like to seen him back because ive always been a clemens fan even after he left boston.  it would have been great to see him back in that redsox uniform and have him win a world series and retire as a redsox.

That is the sentiment for most all the pro Roger fans on the sox side of the fence. You have to respect that. Shame it would not make much business sense for him to come back here. No way the yanks would be outbid for him with the issues they are having imo. I figured the sox would pursue him, but not at the level it would take to actually get him. They offered him 18 mill which is obv way less then the Yankees where willing to pay. It would have been a nice way for him to end his career where it started.

I think it was a great move for the yanks. You have to wonder when father time is going to catch up with Roger. I know that he seems to defy age, but at some point he is going to start to lose it. I am not saying he will , just posing a question. He also is going to have to make a big jump in talent moving from the NL to the Al east. I am NOT saying I do not think Roger will be a big help to the yanks ( I think he will), but for Boston it would not make much sense to pick him up for close to 30 million dollars imo. Especially with Lester slated to return into the rotation soon.

Good move by the Yankees tho.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Thats the most rediculous thing I ever heard of..............NO ONE  is worth that much!

[ieffinhatecardio]

This is taken from Peter King's Monday Morning QB article on the Sports Illustrated website.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/05/06/mmqb/4.html


c. The Devil Rays' payroll for six months for 24 major-league players: $24,124,200.

d. The Yankees' payment and luxury-tax fee to employ Roger Clemens for four months: $25,900,000.

Clemens alone is making $1.75 million more for 4 months than the ENTIRE Tampa Bay Devil Rays team will earn for the whole season.

$26 Million for Roger Clemens for 2/3 of a season, panic much?

[body88]

This is taken from Peter King's Monday Morning QB article on the Sports Illustrated website.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/05/06/mmqb/4.html


c. The Devil Rays' payroll for six months for 24 major-league players: $24,124,200.

d. The Yankees' payment and luxury-tax fee to employ Roger Clemens for four months: $25,900,000.

Clemens alone is making $1.75 million more for 4 months than the ENTIRE Tampa Bay Devil Rays team will earn for the whole season.

$26 Million for Roger Clemens for 2/3 of a season, panic much?

There are a lot of question marks with Roger, imo. People argue that Roger has had an era of 3.01 or below since he went to the national league in 2004. The fact is he had an average era of 4.00 from 99 -2003 when he was with the Yankees pitching in the al east where the lineups are much better. The rocket was 4 - 8 years younger at that point in his career. Roger is a 5 at best 6 inning pitcher at this stage in his career. Which means the Yankees issues with a overworked bullpen a likely to continue. The question is does that lower era Roger had have to do with facing less talented lineups in the national league? Common sense would tell you that he is not getting better as he gets older at 40 plus years old. Many pitchers enjoy substantial drops in there era when moving over to the the NL from the AL  (especially the east). On the flip side many pitchers see a big rise in there era's when coming from the NL the the AL. The Al east jacking that number up even more. I feel the special treatment Roger will receive could disrupt chemistry within the team. How are other players really going to feel about a situation which allows a pitcher to only show up on games he is pitching in? Will other guys want to fly home for a few days? No one else can enjoy the same type of privileges as Roger will be allowed. I am not saying this year will be the year he tails off, but at the age of 45 at some point its going to happen. Basically the Yankees took the risk and gave a 45 year old 5 - 6 inning pitcher, who should have an era of about 4.00, 26 million bucks, to pitch 2/3's of the season. Imo starting pitching is a major concern for the Yankees, but the bullpen is the true achilles heal.

On the flip side roger will be receiving much better run support with the Yankees. This is a seven time Cy Young winner we are talking about here. He can afford to be mor aggressive and not have to worry so much about having no room to breath. The Yankees pitching staff could very well stabilize, and he could be that consistent guy the Yankees really need right now. This was a move the Yankees had to make, and I think it was a good one for them. Money means nothing to the head honcho, so who cares about that. He could defy his past numbers in the al east, and be the lights out ace many hope he will be. It is the house's money and they are doing what they can to get things back on track. For a team like Boston it would be far to much of a risk imo. Right now Wake has an era of 2.11 in the fifth spot. The sox making a 18 million dollar offer reflects that. Frankly the sox are a legit ws contender in there current state. Things can change fast due to injury and such, but at this time I don't see how the sox could have allowed themselves to make a legit offer that would rival anything the Yankees where going to put on the table. With one of the top rotations/arguably the top rotation in baseball it would not make much sense to shell out 26 mill for a few months work (sox wanted him later). Lester is slated to return back into the fifth spot, along with the young arms they already have ready to move up from the minors. It would have been nice to get Roger for insurance ,and keep him away from the Yankees, but Roger would have had to accept far less money and return to pitch much later then NY wanted him to. Imo this was a move the Yankees had to make. If it works it will be well worth the money to yankees fans and the team. If not, wellllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllll Cashman should start looking for a new job.

[Grape Ape]

I think you have a more realistic view than many of your fellow sox counterparts that I've heard, but a few points nonetheless.

There are a lot of question marks with Roger, imo. People argue that Roger has had an era of 3.01 or below since he went to the national league in 2004. The fact is he had an average era of 4.00 from 99 -2003 when he was with the Yankees pitching in the al east where the lineups are much better. The rocket was 4 - 8 years younger at that point in his career. Roger is a 5 at best 6 inning pitcher at this stage in his career. Which means the Yankees issues with a overworked bullpen a likely to continue.

I'm not convinced he's the 5 or 6 inning pitcher everyone's claiming he is.  If you look at his starts last year where he didn't go seven, there were 3 or 4 where he was lifted for a pinch hitter.  That skews the #'s.  Also, you have to figure the Yankee bullpen will not be as overused as it has been, now that Wang, Mussina, and Pettitte are healthy.  On paper, the Yankees bullpen is pretty good.  If the players revert to their career norms with added rest, it will be a big plus.

I feel the special treatment Roger will receive could disrupt chemistry within the team. How are other players really going to feel about a situation which allows a pitcher to only show up on games he is pitching in? Will other guys want to fly home for a few days? No one else can enjoy the same type of privileges as Roger will be allowed.

This is absoultely not true, as Yankee team leaders were asked if they would have a problem with Roger's accomodations, and all said no.  Schilling himself said this is made out by everyone to be a much bigger deal than it is. If you're ARod, do you want Roger Clemens pitching and leaving the team occasionally between starts, or AA Chase Wright pitching for you and there all the time?

The bottom line with this move is that it improves the Yankees, and may be a 3-4 win difference, which is huge.  The Yankees had a need, but it wasn't desperation, as they made offers to him in ST when their staff was healthy.

I think it would have made the sox lethal had they signed him, but I really don't think Clemens ever intended to go there.

[CalvinH]

I was at the Yankee game sunday.
at first no one new what the hell was going on,then the showed
Rogers mug on the big screen the place went nuts.


I need to learn how to post pic's .I was 4 rows behind
the visitors dugout and got some good shots.
best seats iv'e ever had!!

[G o a t b o y]

The consensus here in Houston is he defected to NY so he could be with his boyfriend Pettite, who he has a serious man-crush on.

[Grape Ape]

The consensus here in Houston is he defected to NY so he could be with his boyfriend Pettite, who he has a serious man-crush on.

If it translates to five more Yankee wins, he can spend all his special time off deep inside Pettitte's butthole for all I care.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Bottom line is Clemens makes them better. The question is how much better. He's 45 years old and out of shape right now and he hasn't pitched in the AL East in a long time, especially when you factor in his age.

It's also interesting that they decided to make him the highest paid player in the history of baseball. Apparently they threw so much money on the table with the caveat that he sign right away in hopes of speeding up his return. It has the stench of panic.

If nothing else this signing made the season a whole lot more interesting.

[Grape Ape]

Bottom line is Clemens makes them better. The question is how much better. He's 45 years old and out of shape right now and he hasn't pitched in the AL East in a long time, especially when you factor in his age.

It's also interesting that they decided to make him the highest paid player in the history of baseball. Apparently they threw so much money on the table with the caveat that he sign right away in hopes of speeding up his return. It has the stench of panic.

If nothing else this signing made the season a whole lot more interesting.

He's not in starting shape, but he's ahead of schedule from last year.  He'll translate fine to the AL - check out his numbers against the American League last year.  All his starts were sub 2.00 ERA with the exception of Anaheim.

The move cost the Yankees only money, which is fine since they have so much of it.  Nothing in terms of young talent.   It's funny to hear sox fans poke fun of it, when they spent over 103 million on a pitcher who never threw an MLB pitch.

[ieffinhatecardio]

It's funny to see Yankees fans compare a long-term contract with a promising and coveted Japanese pitcher who is 26 years old with the contract of a 45 year old pitcher who will only pitch for 4 months. 


As I said things just got a whole lot more interesting.

[Grape Ape]

It's funny to see Yankees fans compare a long-term contract with a promising and coveted Japanese pitcher who is 26 years old with the contract of a 45 year old pitcher who will only pitch for 4 months. 

The comparison is in reaction to the hypocritical accusations of Boston fans.  You can't cry poverty about a competitive advantage that your own team has over every other team in MLB but one.  The fact is, they both have more money to spend than the rest of the league, and would be stupid of them not to use this power as long as it's within the rules.

Since you bought up the contract specifics, what do you think is less risky - committing 19M for a one year deal to a 45 year old pitcher who was statistically, by far, the best pitcher in the NL the last three years, or spending 103M for five years for a Japanese pitcher who has never pitched in MLB, let alone the AL East?

I'm not saying Matsusaka won't be good, since I wanted him on the Yankees.  But what's less risky?  Clemens, due to his track record, lenght of contract, and 84M less.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Who's crying poverty? I have yet to read one post from a Red Sox fan crying about not being able to pay for someone. I made a post that showed surprise at making Clemens at 45 years old the highest paid player in baseball history. Nice spin.

As for $19 million, you're off by $7 million, it's actually $25.9 million. Again, nice spin.

As for you're real question. My answer depends on who I'm answering for. Since money is no object for Steinbrenner then this signing of Clemens makes perfect sense. If I was answering for any other team besides the Yankees I'd say it was a ridiculous signing for the money.

And as for the signing of Dice-K. Every team in MLB wanted him, that includes the Yankees. We overbid on the posting fee. I don't like it but unfortunately that's the way he had to be procured. We overpaid for him but as we sit here on May 8, 2007 the deal makes sense because he's got so much potential. If he hasn't turned into a number 1 or number 2 starter by May 8, 2009 then I'll say this deal was a failure.

As for Clemens, he's been an amazing pitcher his whole life but he's 45 years old now. I'm not saying he's not going to be an excellent starter but it's certainly not etched in stone that he'll dominate a very offensively potent AL East. Even the $24.5 Million Diamondbacks can rake. 

Given how difficult it is to find top notch pitching signing Clemens was a no brainer. The Yankees threw so much money on the table Clemens would have been an idiot to not take it. And we all know that when it comes to money Clemens is no idiot.

Ultimately your question can't be answered because any team would have signed both of them and money means different things to different teams and because we don't know how Dice-K will pan out. The question can be more accurately answered in a few years.

[Grape Ape]

Who's crying poverty? I have yet to read one post from a Red Sox fan crying about not being able to pay for someone. I made a post that showed surprise at making Clemens at 45 years old the highest paid player in baseball history. Nice spin.

This was not meant to be an argument.  I never said anyone here said those things - I was referring to what I've heard on WEEI, TV, work, etc.  I live outside of Boston, so I'm surrounded by it.  I get a good idea to what sox fans on the whole are feeling.  You can argue that those who call EEI are not the smart fans, but that's what I've been hearing the last few days - how Clemens will fall apart, that it's all about money and greed, and how the Yankees have gone back to their old habits.

As for $19 million, you're off by $7 million, it's actually $25.9 million. Again, nice spin.

I was referring to the pro-rated amount of the AAV of 28M.  Are you adding luxury tax to get your number?

As for you're real question. My answer depends on who I'm answering for. Since money is no object for Steinbrenner then this signing of Clemens makes perfect sense. If I was answering for any other team besides the Yankees I'd say it was a ridiculous signing for the money.

Agree except for there was one other team that it wouldn't have been ridiculous for - Boston.  It would have made them extremely dangerous, and could have been a fall back in case Wakefield and Schilling show their age in August, or if Beckett goes back to being Beckett.   I don't think they had a chance though, they were there to drive up the money.

And as for the signing of Dice-K. Every team in MLB wanted him, that includes the Yankees. We overbid on the posting fee. I don't like it but unfortunately that's the way he had to be procured. We overpaid for him but as we sit here on May 8, 2007 the deal makes sense because he's got so much potential. If he hasn't turned into a number 1 or number 2 starter by May 8, 2009 then I'll say this deal was a failure.

Agree 100%.

As for Clemens, he's been an amazing pitcher his whole life but he's 45 years old now. I'm not saying he's not going to be an excellent starter but it's certainly not etched in stone that he'll dominate a very offensively potent AL East. Even the $24.5 Million Diamondbacks can rake. 

I agree.  Clemens will fall apart one day on someone's dollar.  The trends say it won't happen this year, but it could.  I expect him to be on par with Schilling, but a step below the Santanas and Halladays.

Given how difficult it is to find top notch pitching signing Clemens was a no brainer. The Yankees threw so much money on the table Clemens would have been an idiot to not take it. And we all know that when it comes to money Clemens is no idiot.

Ultimately your question can't be answered because any team would have signed both of them and money means different things to different teams and because we don't know how Dice-K will pan out. The question can be more accurately answered in a few years.

Yes, it will take years to judge the Matsusaka deal.   I actually thought he would dominate the first half of this year, and still might if his control comes back.  We'll see.

[legbreaker]

Did the Red Sox actually choose to not pick up Roger's contract in the late 90's because they fely he was too old and at the end of his carreer?

I think some of his BEST years have been since leaving the Sox...interesting.

[body88]

Since you bought up the contract specifics, what do you think is less risky - committing 19M for a one year deal to a 45 year old pitcher who was statistically, by far, the best pitcher in the NL the last three years, or spending 103M for five years for a Japanese pitcher who has never pitched in MLB, let alone the AL East?

I'm not saying Matsusaka won't be good, since I wanted him on the Yankees.  But what's less risky?  Clemens, due to his track record, lenght of contract, and 84M less.

Dice K signed a 5 year 50 million dollar deal. The red sox posted a 50 million dollar posting fee that the Lions accepted. Dice k will not see a dime of that money. Yes the sox spent in total 100 million bucks to lock him up, but the 50 million dollar posting fee will be recouped through merchandising, advertising, and the huge new Japanese fan base, who are instant red sox fans. The sox invested that 50 million dollar posting fee knowing full well they would make most all of it back in business endeavors, commercials, fans and merchandising. Dice k makes about 10 mill per year, Roger is making 26 million bucks over less then half a full season. Dice k is 26 years old, and was signed to a long term deal. Roger is 45 years old, and made the Yankees go back on there statement of not giving him special privileges in a short term deal. I am not sure how you are comparing a guy who is getting 26 million dollars to pitch 2/3's of a season to 26 year old who is getting 10 million bucks a season over the next five years. You are ignoring the fact Dice K has a deal worth about 50 million dollars. The 50 million dollar posting fee made by the sox was an investment which they can earn back through many avenues. What percent of rogers money is going to be recouped within the 2/3 of a year he is pitching for the Yankees? That money is gone. The posting fee will end up making the sox money 15 from now. Do you know how many Japanese kids are going to be sox fans for life due to Dice K? The sox have been scouting dice k for years. They spent a lot of time making sure he was what they wanted. The wbc was far from the first time they scouted him. He has shown he has the stuff to be a number one one day. It is going to take time before the kid can show what he really has. 2009 sounds about right to truly access this deal. If people expected him to come over here and be lights out without ups and down in his first year given the circumstance, they don't know much about baseball. Dice has had 3 dominant starts, 1 solid, and  two starts where he really struggled. He is not being hit around in games, his issues are from things like a rushed delivery from the stretch etc etc. He is having a up and down rookie issues, magnified by a trillion since he is under such scrutiny. He has to deal with a different culture, different strike zone, different rotation, far better talent, not pitching in a dome, no old friends, a language barrier, massive pressure and the unfamiliarity of the league. Ob those factors are going to make it a bit diff then a rookie coming up from the minors.


Roger is 45 years old. Four to eight years ago, the rocket had an average era of 4.00 over his span with the Yankees in the al east. That 4.00 avg is not over one or two years, it is over five years. Roger will have privileges the rest of the team will not. how will players really feel about that? Not all athletes are all about the team. At this point in his career averages say Roger is a 5 to at best 6 inning pitcher. What does that do to help the bullpen? To say this deal was not extremely risky is a stretch imo. This deal could very well pan out. Many people have already declared Roger to be the knight in shining armor that is going to fix all the Yankees problem's think it was a move the Yankees had to make. The money means nothing. I agree it will be worth every dime if the Yankees win a ring. I think it could be a very good move for them. Roger could very well be that consistent ace the Yankees need. He could very well have an era of 2 or 3, and be that solid bull the Yankees need. If so then this is all worth it. On the flip side nothing I have said is inaccurate either about how it could go the other way. I think rodge will be a big help. I think the Yankees problems are in the bullpen.

[jmt1]

Did the Red Sox actually choose to not pick up Roger's contract in the late 90's because they fely he was too old and at the end of his carreer?


 

yes...former gm dan duquette allowed clemens to leave boston saying that he was in the twilight of his career.

its really a damn shame... the sox should have done whatever they had to do to keep him in boston.

the way he was treated i cant blame him for leaving.

no matter what he did with the toronto, houston, or yanks, i will always consider him a redsox.

[body88]

I already told you in the other thread that this is completely false.  ALL MERCHANDISING OUTSIDE OF YAWKEY WAY GOES INTO A REVENUE SHARING POOL FOR MLB.  The Yankees make just as much off him as the sox do.  So do the Royals and everyone else.  There is no plan to recoup this money - Larry Luccino has said it himself.  This fact has been rebuffed by countless people, most notably the sox management.  Unless the sox somehow manage to sell $51.1 million dollars worth of Matsusaka jersey inside the surrounding Fenway area, they will not recover this money.

You are correct the sox have to split merchandise revenue with the entire league. But the sox can sell the broadcasting rights from NESN to all dice k / red sox games to any far east companies they want. How much do you think the broadcasting rights are worth to sox games? How much do you think long term broadcasting deals are worth? The sox only have to split merchandise. Every time you see Japanese language on a add the sox are making $$$. Fenway is covered in them. Luccino and Dr Charles are making money on direct trip packages from Japan to Boston through there travel agency. Packages deals all inclusives etc etc. How much $$ do you think they can make off Japanese tourists interested in seeing Boston and Dice k / the red sox? Those trips have to be pretty pricey traveling half way around the world and all.The money is going to be eventually recouped. There a lot more business endeavors other then selling merchandise in and around Fenway. Which for a franchise worth 730 million in one of, if not the most rabid baseball market in the country generates a nice chunk in itself.

It's also irrelevant whether the posting fee goes to Matsusaka or his team.  That distinction is for luxury tax calculation purposes only.  It doesn't hide the fact that the sox total cash outaly is 103M, more if incentive clauses are met.  Even the most delusional sox fan has to realize that they put up money that maybe five MLB teams could afford.  It doesn't make it wrong or a bad move, it just means they can't cry poverty anymore, which they have done incessantly in the past.

It is relevant. Dice k's actual deal is worth 50 million. Just like Rogers deal is only 19 million since you do not count that luxury tax the Yankees have to spend that will make the deal cost them 26.5 A team might cry poverty if there biggest rival is outspending them by at least 90 million bones (which the Yankees where doing). The yankees continue to outspend the sox.

The sox have been scouting dice k for years. They spent a lot of time making sure he was what they wanted. The wbc was far from the first time they scouted him. He has shown he has the stuff to be a
You keep trying to compare him to a traditional rookie which is unfair.  There have been numerous articles to back this up.  Try baseballthinkfactory.com if you're interested in some of this stuff.  Yes, he will need to make adjustments, no doubt.  But, as I've said before, statistical evidence PROVES that japanese pitches tend to have their  best years in their FIRST year.  I do agree that it will take a few years to evaluate the deal.

A lot of articles say Derek Jeter is a sub par defensive shortstop. Alot of articles say a lot of things, and people have there own opinions. I dont base what I think on articles or opinions from websites. Just as good of a case can be made to refute what those articles push. Dice K is not a traditional rookie. The kid traveled across the world from a different country. He does not have any of his friends or family here (other then his immediate family). The strike zone is different. The rotation is different. The entire culture is different. He does not know how to speak English, and needs an interpreter. He has pitched in a dome his whole career. The talent level is much higher, and the lineups are much stronger. He is under much more pressure then a normal ball player. The guy is under a microscope 24 - 7. Frankly 3 dominant starts, 1 solid start and two starts where he really struggled is nothing to worry about. I think his first year will be up and down. Statistics showing that Japanese pitchers have there best year the first year a great. What does that have to do with Dice K? Other then being Japanese of course. Maybe Dice K is going to develop differently. Is there some kind of rule that says ALL foreign pitchers have to be there best in there first year? Do the other Japanese pitchers have 6 proven pitches they can for strikes at any time in a count? Like I said dice k's problems are from things like setting up way to fast when pitching out of the stretch. He is not being hit around, even in games where he struggled. Proof the second time he faced the Yankees and no one made good contact on the ball. Dice k has some deception in his wind up but he is not like a Nomo who was lights out the first year because he had some crazy windup that hitters where not used to. Dice relies on his array of pitches and keeping hitters of balance, not a outlandish windup.

This will prove to be about as good as Schilling, without as much wear and tear.?

Maybe, maybe not.. Schilling is not making the gigantic money Roger is, and he pitches for a full seasons. Schilling routinely takes the sox into the seventh inning of games in the AL east. Schilling is still a number one. Did you see Mike Mussina's quote about Roger? I am paraphrasing but he said "Roger is very good, but he will probably be a number 3 or 4 guy. He then said people needed to understand That Roger was 44 - 45 and would not be the same as he was "last time he was here". It was on baseball tonight last night. Roger could prove his teammate wrong.

Do you read any responses to your stuff?  Again - mgt asked the veteran Yankees how they felt and they all said no problem at all.  Even Schilling said on the radio today that it's not a big deal at all.?

So what? A lot of people take the high road. It could bother some players and they might not speak publicly about it. The fact is the Yankees said last year they would not allow roger special privileges and they went back on it. Hard to push the team concept when one guy is ob more important then the others. Schilling also said Barry Bonds cheated on his wife. took juice and cheats on his Taxes,lol. He says a lot of things. Curt Schilling is not a Yankee player who might take offense to not be able to fly home and see his family when he wants.

  Roger is not a five innning pitcher either.

5 - 6.


Roger could be that night in shining armor # 1 ace many think he will be. Mike Mussina could be wrong and Rodge could be far better then age/history would tell you he is going to be. If that happens and the Yankees win a ring then it is money well spent. it was a move the Yankees had to make, but it is a obvious risk. I do not fell like typing another response so take this for what its worth!

[Tre]

Bad value.

[Grape Ape]

Bad value.

This cannot be judged until the year is over.

[Grape Ape]

You are correct the sox have to split merchandise revenue with the entire league. But the sox can sell the broadcasting rights from NESN to all dice k / red sox games to any far east companies they want. How much do you think the broadcasting rights are worth to sox games? How much do you think long term broadcasting deals are worth? The sox only have to split merchandise. Every time you see Japanese language on a add the sox are making $$$. Fenway is covered in them. Luccino and Dr Charles are making money on direct trip packages from Japan to Boston through there travel agency. Packages deals all inclusives etc etc. How much $$ do you think they can make off Japanese tourists interested in seeing Boston and Dice k / the red sox? Those trips have to be pretty pricey traveling half way around the world and all.The money is going to be eventually recouped. There a lot more business endeavors other then selling merchandise in and around Fenway. Which for a franchise worth 730 million in one of, if not the most rabid baseball market in the country generates a nice chunk in itself.

Where do you get your information from?

Any revenue outside of Boston's geographical "footprint" is split the same way merchandise sales are.  For example, Steinbrenner can't just make YES available in the Dominican Republic and keep all the revenues.  Do you think the other owners in MLB would stand for something like this without taking their cut?

You can read all about it here:  http://www.businessofbaseball.com/zimbalist_interview.htm  Whether you want to or not, the claims you made above are just not true.

If you're interested I can get you the exact numbers on what a billboard in  Fenway costs.  It wont come close to recouping the posting fee.  Same with the travel packages.

If the sox themeselves say they're not getting the money back, why do you keep insisting they are?

Dice k's actual deal is worth 50 million. Just like Rogers deal is only 19 million since you do not count that luxury tax the Yankees have to spend that will make the deal cost them 26.5 A team might cry poverty if there biggest rival is outspending them by at least 90 million bones (which the Yankees where doing). The yankees continue to outspend the sox.

The allocation of Matsusaka's posting fee is ONLY relevent for luxury tax calculations.  The money is still a risk.  With the luxury tax, the Yanks have a one year, 26.5M risk.  The sox have a five year, 103M+ risk.  That's all I'm saying.

Maybe, maybe not.. Schilling is not making the gigantic money Roger is, and he pitches for a full seasons. Schilling routinely takes the sox into the seventh inning of games in the AL east. Schilling is still a number one. Did you see Mike Mussina's quote about Roger? I am paraphrasing but he said "Roger is very good, but he will probably be a number 3 or 4 guy. He then said people needed to understand That Roger was 44 - 45 and would not be the same as he was "last time he was here". It was on baseball tonight last night. Roger could prove his teammate wrong.

The money doesn't matter in this case, only the results do.  I think his numbers will be on par with Schilling, but, like you said, let's wait and see.  I don't put too much stock in the Baseball Tonight analysts, as they are among the dumbest out there, and frequently wrong.

So what? A lot of people take the high road. It could bother some players and they might not speak publicly about it. The fact is the Yankees said last year they would not allow roger special privileges and they went back on it. Hard to push the team concept when one guy is ob more important then the others. Schilling also said Barry Bonds cheated on his wife. took juice and cheats on his Taxes,lol. He says a lot of things. Curt Schilling is not a Yankee player who might take offense to not be able to fly home and see his family when he wants.

The Yankees went back on statements they made LAST YEAR about special privelidges.  The reason was they felt the Randy Johnson would cause problems because of it.  The offer they made Clemens in spring training included them.

Do you think Yankee players would rather have Chase Wright on the mound without his special deal, or Roger Clemens on the mound with them?  The players don't care.

Roger could be that night in shining armor # 1 ace many think he will be. Mike Mussina could be wrong and Rodge could be far better then age/history would tell you he is going to be. If that happens and the Yankees win a ring then it is money well spent. it was a move the Yankees had to make, but it is a obvious risk. I do not fell like typing another response so take this for what its worth!

I agree with this, especially the last sentence.   Good luck, dude.

[ieffinhatecardio]

This was not meant to be an argument.  I never said anyone here said those things - I was referring to what I've heard on WEEI, TV, work, etc.  I live outside of Boston, so I'm surrounded by it.  I get a good idea to what sox fans on the whole are feeling.  You can argue that those who call EEI are not the smart fans, but that's what I've been hearing the last few days - how Clemens will fall apart, that it's all about money and greed, and how the Yankees have gone back to their old habits.

I was referring to the pro-rated amount of the AAV of 28M.  Are you adding luxury tax to get your number?

Agree except for there was one other team that it wouldn't have been ridiculous for - Boston.  It would have made them extremely dangerous, and could have been a fall back in case Wakefield and Schilling show their age in August, or if Beckett goes back to being Beckett.   I don't think they had a chance though, they were there to drive up the money.

Agree 100%.

I agree.  Clemens will fall apart one day on someone's dollar.  The trends say it won't happen this year, but it could.  I expect him to be on par with Schilling, but a step below the Santanas and Halladays.

Yes, it will take years to judge the Matsusaka deal.   I actually thought he would dominate the first half of this year, and still might if his control comes back.  We'll see.

I wasn't aware you lived around Boston. You must get sick of hearing about the Sox all the time. I know that if I lived in or around NYC I'd get sick of hearing about the Yanks. There are obnoxious fans on both sides that are hard to stomach. I imagine you listening to WEEI would be like me listening to FAN. Do you call into the Mustard and Johnson program on Saturday morning with Mike from Canton?

Yes, I was adding the luxury tax, total cost to the Yankees for Clemens services this year total $25.9 million. It's the same way total cost to Dice-K to the Sox is $20 million annually even though his salary is only $10 million. Sounds funny to be saying only when talking about $10 million.

You're overall point is valid when talking about how much the Red Sox can and do spend but in this particular instance it's not. The Sox wouldn't have paid Clemens the salary the Yankees paid him. They don't have the same massive revenue stream the Yankees do. I'm not crying poor because the Sox generate a ton of revenue and spend a ton in player salaries, but not as much as the Yankees. No one does.

I agree with your overall point regarding the signing of Clemens, all it cost the Yanks is money and they have plenty of that. So in the end the signing was a no brainer and will end up being a success if for no other reason than he's better than any other option that was available.

As I said earlier his signing made everyone's summer a whole lot more interesting and entertaining.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed regarding Beckett, he's looked so good this year I'm hoping the changes he made from last year will last. He seems to be a smarter pitcher than he was last year. Last night was a perfect example, the lead off hitter against him hit a homerun and the next batter hit a double and it looked like he would have a rough game. He calmed down and pitched beautifully for the next 6 innings and didn't give up another run or allow another runner to reach scoring position.

He's got the stuff to be one of the best, we'll see if he has the head for it.

BTW, the Yanks offense is starting to mash like we all knew they would. When they're firing on all cylinders they are FRIGHTENING. There are literally no weak hitters. It's amazing.