Author Topic: Pulling out of Iraq  (Read 2246 times)

headhuntersix

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Pulling out of Iraq
« on: May 07, 2007, 01:56:14 PM »
Prompt and rapid withdrawal? The favorite option of the left would make the U.S. pain go away and is perfect for campaign talking points, but it will neither end the war nor help our allies in the region. It is hard to see how it is even remotely in U.S. or Iraqi interests. The recent, authoritative National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraq's stability said rapid withdrawal "almost certainly would lead to a significant increase in the scale and scope of sectarian conflict in Iraq, intensify Sunni resistance to the Iraqi government, and have adverse consequences for national reconciliation." The NIE goes on to say that neighboring countries might intervene and that massive casualties and refugees would result.

Full Iraqization? As the surge ages or unravels, our planners might want to craft an option that puts more weight on the Iraqis and gradually reduces U.S. force levels. This option would move U.S. combat forces out of cities and feature the steady buildup of Iraqi forces. The U.S. would abandon offensive counterinsurgency operations and shift its main effort to equipping and advising Iraqi forces, while also maintaining maneuver units to protect those advisers or prevent the Iraqi regime from suffering serious defeats.

To succeed, this plan would require a force of about 32,000 troops in Iraq, as well as a regional stability force of 35,000 troops in Kuwait. Along with regional air and naval assets, forces in Iraq would be divided into an advisory element of 10,000 officers, NCOs and civilians to train and advise Iraqi military and police forces; an in-country protection and support force of three mobile brigades (roughly 15,000 troops) to serve as in extremis combat force and as a second line of U.S. protection for advisers and reconstruction teams; a 2,000-soldier Special Forces element to combat foreign terrorists in Iraq; and a 5,000-person headquarters, logistics and air-support element.

Regardless of strategic options, the U.S. should step up diplomacy with its friends in the region. Specifically, the U.S. could ask them for more help in training Iraqi police and military forces and participation in the regional stability force in Kuwait. We should also talk directly to Iran and Syria, but it won't be pleasant. Allowing insurgents, Iranian special forces, or weapons and explosives to cross into Iraq is beyond the pale and, when verified, should become the subject of immediate, proportional counteraction by the coalition.

With this new plan, the U.S. could work toward its goals, reduce its forces in Iraq by two-thirds, cut its regional troop commitment by half, markedly reduce casualties and equipment losses and pressure regional allies to take up some of the slack. The Iraqis would be forced to seek rapid, effective sectarian reconciliation. This post-surge plan could be easily sustained, reduced in size or reinforced, as the situation warrants




Yes this was lenghy but its a plan and appears to be better then anythinmg that politicos on either side have articulated. I figured I let u all chew over this.
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Colossus_500

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2007, 02:01:12 PM »
Al Qaeda deputy speaks out on U.S. Iraq pullout bill
Sat May 5, 2007 5:51PM EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a new Internet video, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command jeers at the Iraq war funding bill vetoed by President George W. Bush that called for a U.S. troop pullout in Iraq, ABC News said on Saturday.

"This bill will deprive us of the opportunity to destroy the American forces which we have caught in a historic trap," al Qaeda deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri is quoted as saying on ABC's Web site, http://abcnews.go.com/.

"We ask Allah that they only get out of it after losing 200,000 to 300,000 killed, in order that we give the spillers of blood in Washington and Europe an unforgettable lesson," Zawahri says.

ABC's site includes a photo of the bearded Zawahri in front of a bookshelf.

A White House spokesman declined to comment on the report, which comes four days after Bush vetoed a $124 billion congressional war-spending measure that would have required a troop pullout from Iraq to begin by October 1.

Zawahri's last public comments were on March 11, when he lashed out at the leadership of Palestinian Islamist group Hamas over its Saudi-brokered deal with the U.S.-backed Palestinian faction Fatah.

Democratic leaders are in closed-door negotiations with White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten and other senior aides to the Republican president to see if they can reach agreement on a second bill.

U.S. opposition to the Iraq war is strong among Democrats who believe their victory in November's congressional elections gave them a mandate to demand a change in Bush's Iraq policy.


© Reuters 2006. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

headhuntersix

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 02:10:30 PM »
Yeah i saw this one too..great!
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OzmO

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 02:12:40 PM »
Honestly, in the end i don't think this is what they want.  I think they know what would happen if we did pull out like that and what it would mean to the region and our economy. 

But at the same time they know the American people need a bone......this bill is their bone. 

And bush is taking the fall for it as the BAD guy that said no.

headhuntersix

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 02:26:14 PM »
Politics,man,Politics......with lives.
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Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 02:33:05 PM »
Pullout = Surrender

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 02:34:48 PM »
Pullout = Surrender

Right.  Our egos can't take the hit, but our troops can die.  Nice.

headhuntersix

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 02:35:12 PM »
Not if we do it the right way..we gotta go sometime..The US military will not simply withdraw. Even in Vietnam we were mostly gone by 1975 anyway...I don't expect to see BlackHawks lifting outa the greenzone , while rags on donkeys storm the gates.
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headhuntersix

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 02:36:08 PM »
This plan is pretty straightforeward and put before the American people.....say during the election it woulkd do pretty well.
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Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 03:32:07 PM »
Right.  Our egos can't take the hit, but our troops can die.  Nice.

Our ego's? Are you freaking serious?? Do you really think it's as shallow as that?

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 03:42:48 PM »
Our ego's? Are you freaking serious?? Do you really think it's as shallow as that?

For some, yes. 

Pulling out ABSO-FVCKING-LUTELY doesn't mean surrender.  Surrender to WHO?  the 2500 criminals they cannot control?  Dude, they have a democratically elected government there.  They have some semblance of a police force.  They have 2500 criminals on their wanted list.

I suppose you want to stay until we ferret out every one of those 2500 assholes, even if means we lose 3400 more men doing it?

I have heard MANY people say "the world will think..." if we leave iraq.  I wonder if the mother of a dead soldier gives a shit about what some moroccan thinks of America come Christmastime.

Hedgehog

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 05:56:02 PM »
Right.  Our egos can't take the hit, but our troops can die.  Nice.

Very well summed up.

Should the vanity of our leaders be more precious than the lives of common men?

-Hedge
As empty as paradise

gcb

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2007, 09:23:55 PM »
For some, yes. 

Pulling out ABSO-FVCKING-LUTELY doesn't mean surrender.  Surrender to WHO?  the 2500 criminals they cannot control?  Dude, they have a democratically elected government there.  They have some semblance of a police force.  They have 2500 criminals on their wanted list.

I suppose you want to stay until we ferret out every one of those 2500 assholes, even if means we lose 3400 more men doing it?

I have heard MANY people say "the world will think..." if we leave iraq.  I wonder if the mother of a dead soldier gives a shit about what some moroccan thinks of America come Christmastime.

I don't know where you get that 2500 from - yeah it's just a few bad apples - sounds like propaganda to me

egj13

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 05:26:40 AM »
Very well summed up.

Should the vanity of our leaders be more precious than the lives of common men?

-Hedge

Welcome to the military

pumpster

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 05:45:45 AM »
Good job by Bush of getting other arab troops in there over the last 4-5 years to take over from the Americans.

rockyfortune

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 06:44:10 AM »
I'm still waiting for the camel jockeys to welcome us as liberators.

footloose and fancy free

Victor VonDoom

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 06:50:45 AM »
With all the power at your disposal, with all the US military might (money, personnel, equipment, strategists, etc.) if you haven't won the war after four years of fighting with those rag heads, sand blacks, savages--pic the defamation of your choice--you are not going to win it.  Period.

Take your humiliation and go home.  Remember, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Iraq is not the base of operations for Al Queda; even if you were to erase Iraq from the globe that would not stop the threat of Al Queda.

Those of you who insist the US should keep fighting in Iraq should feel free to suit up and carry on the fighting and dying for as long as you wish; the rest of the US will even pay the $ bill...  But those who realize it's time to end this nonsense should be allowed to go home.  Bah!

Doom has spoken.

Decker

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2007, 07:22:30 AM »
“RAPID WITHDRAWAL” is propaganda spread by the Bush administration.

The NIE was completed with only the most extreme option addressed.  Phased or gradual withdrawal was not even looked at.  http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/02/02/nie.3.pdf (a copy of the NIE)  Note that RAPID WITHDRAWAL is not quantified.

Bush ordered the illegal invasion of Iraq which has resulted in the single worst foreign policy blunder in US history.

Now we should stay the course while our soldiers are killed/wounded, billions of US tax dollars are spent, and the US’s reputation is in ruins.

I don’t think so.


The insurgents are the Iraqi people fighting a multifaceted civil war: Sunnis v. extremist Sunnis w/ Al Qaeda ties, Shia v. Shia extremists, Sunni v. Shia, Sunni & Shia v. US occupying forces(as referee).

The US does NOT have the forces to police all major Iraqi cities as referee.  A surge in troop levels in targeted cities may suppress violence temporarily, but it is a no-win situation.


Continuing an unworkable foreign policy is ridiculous.  It is time for alternatives like ‘phased withdrawal’ to take the stage.

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2007, 07:23:17 AM »
I don't know where you get that 2500 from - yeah it's just a few bad apples - sounds like propaganda to me


gen barry mccaffrey. google it.

Colossus_500

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2007, 08:35:59 AM »
Very well summed up.

Should the vanity of our leaders be more precious than the lives of common men?

-Hedge
I think the vanity actually lies with those who are putting up the most resistance to the war itself.  Let's be honest, the Democratic leadership is not concerned with the well-being of our soldiers or what the implications are with a complete pullout of Iraq (else, we wouldn't have the notable quote from Senator Harry Reid - "the war is lost"  ::) ).  The grudge match that we are seeing with the congressional and senatorial leadership is all about political posturing for the 2008 election.  I dare say the Republicans are doing the same, we just aren't hearing about it as much (we will come Sept. though, should we not hear good news from Iraq - something that I think is virtually impossible seeing as the Democratic party has an impeccably strong loyalty from the media)

Decker

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2007, 09:05:40 AM »
I think the vanity actually lies with those who are putting up the most resistance to the war itself.  Let's be honest, the Democratic leadership is not concerned with the well-being of our soldiers or what the implications are with a complete pullout of Iraq (else, we wouldn't have the notable quote from Senator Harry Reid - "the war is lost"  ::) ).  The grudge match that we are seeing with the congressional and senatorial leadership is all about political posturing for the 2008 election.  I dare say the Republicans are doing the same, we just aren't hearing about it as much (we will come Sept. though, should we not hear good news from Iraq - something that I think is virtually impossible seeing as the Democratic party has an impeccably strong loyalty from the media)
I think a phased withdrawal approach to Iraq foreign policy does indicate care/concern for the soldiers.

It will save american military lives.

Bush's strategy costs american military lives.

How can you come to the opposite conclusion?

Blaming the 'liberal media' is a red herring and is a very weak source of rhetoric. 

It is very easy to show a media biased to the right.

headhuntersix

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2007, 09:13:31 AM »
Yeah right..the media is center left at best and has been. The fact that Fox News is so popular sorta proves my point. American in general is center right execept for the coasts and academia. They ( the media) don't show any of the good that happens in Iraq..more so because it doesn't sell or is not news.....If it bleeds it leads.  The Bush stategy has not worked because nobody listened during the planning for this war...everything since has been stop gap measures that only provide half solutions. A phased withdrawl that protects our stategic interests is the way to go.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2007, 09:23:33 AM »
Yet the media can't or won't broadcast injured soldiers or returning caskets full of our dead.

Interesting that they don't show anything positive yet they don't show the absolute worst of this war, namely our dead and wounded soldiers. Rather ironic wouldn't you say?

Decker

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2007, 09:26:17 AM »
Yeah right..the media is center left at best and has been. The fact that Fox News is so popular sorta proves my point. American in general is center right execept for the coasts and academia. They ( the media) don't show any of the good that happens in Iraq..more so because it doesn't sell or is not news.....If it bleeds it leads.  The Bush stategy has not worked because nobody listened during the planning for this war...everything since has been stop gap measures that only provide half solutions. A phased withdrawl that protects our stategic interests is the way to go.
I don't think Fox news ratings proves anything about the political leanings of the country.  I watch Fox news on Sunday.  I'm not aligned with right or right of center politics.  

I think america leans right or left depending on the topic at hand.  Economics:  right (not supply side though), Social Security left, Iraq (left...was right) etc.

I think your portrayal of the media's penchant for 'if it bleeds it leads' is really sensible.

Decker

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Re: Pulling out of Iraq
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 09:28:18 AM »
Yet the media can't or won't broadcast injured soldiers or returning caskets full of our dead.

Interesting that they don't show anything positive yet they don't show the absolute worst of this war, namely our dead and wounded soldiers. Rather ironic wouldn't you say?
That is our official policy from the whitehouse. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4807865/

You have made a great point.