i agree, like i said if either Dave or this other guy had to go drug free they wouldn't even be in the gym.
I don't give drugs that much credit, I think both these guys probably do alot of things right as far as nutrition, training and other stuff...problem is they don't understand or have forgotten how hard it is to reach your genetic potential for a natty. I'm not saying one is harder than the other cuase the standards are different but the top natty guys in the world are not gonna be as massive or as initially impressive as a national level enhanced BB.
Put a tan on alexxx, help him drop a little BF and get rid of the water and he'd look fine, he's made alot of improvements over the last couple of years and if you think he looks like he never worked out then your just being arrogant or ignorant as to what someone looks like "who never tourched a weight".
I've seen the clips of raising the bar and they guy pictured looks like he busts his ass in the gym for the most part...I don't have anything bad to say about him from those clips.