Author Topic: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone  (Read 6685 times)

OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2007, 10:00:33 AM »

Which are a mine field to you and which are not?  Who said that these were "sins in the bible"?  I asked Camel Jockey if he had sinned, then I asked if he had done any of the other things that I listed. 

Are all those things sins?

loco

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2007, 10:06:26 AM »
Are all those things sins?

What?  No answer?  You give me a question instead of an answer to my question?  How about you answer mine first?    ;D

OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2007, 10:26:14 AM »
I was just trying to ask you if those are sins?  Why are you having trouble answering it?   With that other thread, "sins outside the 10 commandments" it seems like you are dodging the question.

loco

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2007, 10:40:04 AM »
I was just trying to ask you if those are sins?  Why are you having trouble answering it?   With that other thread, "sins outside the 10 commandments" it seems like you are dodging the question.

I am not having any trouble answering and I will answer, after you answer my question.  I'll answer your questions, then you answer mine.  We'll take turns to make sure that nobody's question qets forgotten and buried by the other person's questions.

I did answer, many times, on your other thread.

You are the only one dodging questions, in this and on the other thread "No such thing as an Atheist?"

OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2007, 11:04:28 AM »
I am not having any trouble answering and I will answer, after you answer my question.  I'll answer your questions, then you answer mine.  We'll take turns to make sure that nobody's question qets forgotten and buried by the other person's questions.

I did answer, many times, on your other thread.

You are the only one dodging questions, in this and on the other thread "No such thing as an Atheist?"

ok what's your question to me,  restate it please.  I'll answer it directly.

loco

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2007, 11:15:15 AM »
ok what's your question to me,  restate it please.  I'll answer it directly.

Looks like a mine field to me, at least some of it. 


Which are a mine field to you and which are not? 

OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2007, 11:43:59 AM »
Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it? 

Do you watch the news loco?  Do you see people suffering that could use money?  Are you sanding money everytime you read or see it on TV?

"Mine"

Quote
Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work?

Ever at that same job, been there early and stayed late and not got paid for it?

It usually evens out, otherwise you get canned.

"Mine"

Quote
"Ever take a pen or pencil home from work?"

I don't think anyone premeditates stealing a pen from work.

"Mine"

Quote
Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too?

"unethical"  I would call that a sin.


Quote
Ever lied?  Ever told half truths?

"sin"  Especially if there is a victim involved.

Quote
Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?

It's perfectly natural to be attracted to a pretty women.  It's a sin to act on it via seduction or w/e if that person is committed to  a relationship.

"mine"

Of course severe physical and emotional harm is a sin.


Now answer my question












loco

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2007, 12:31:41 PM »
Now answer my question

YES, SIR!

Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it?

Sin.  Notice I said some good you "could" have done:  You know your neighbor is starving, you have extra food and don't share.  You know your neighbor is dying of thirst.  You have extra fresh water, but you don't share. 

If on the other hand it was good you "couldn't" have or could not afford to have done, then that's another story.

Something good you could have said, but never said it? 

Moral law, for example a compliment you could have given your wife and made her day, but didn't.

Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally? 

If intentional, then it's a sin.

Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work?  Ever take a pen or pencil home from work? 

Sin.

Stealing:  Do a little research.  Most businesses that fail in the US do so because employees steal from employers, not working their hours, stealing office supplies, etc. 

Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too? 

Sin

Ever lied?  Ever told half truths? 

Sin

Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?

Sin


By the way, OzmO, my intention was to have Camel Jockey think about this for himself.  A lot of this stuff is between you and God, like thoughts and intentions.  Camel Jockey said "I've lived an honest life and hurt no one".  It was not meant to define sin, but you asked and I answered.

MCWAY

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2007, 01:13:35 PM »
How about no?

I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.

If your god considers devotion to him over having high moral character and being a good person, then he's a piece of shit(if he even exists).

Just exactly who is defining what "high moral character" or "being a good person" is? By what standard of morality are you using?

AlterEgo

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2007, 06:46:13 PM »
New proof
Movie '300'
"Ready your breakfeast and eat hearty, for tonight we dine in hell!!!"

this has everything.. 'breakfeast' - food people are hungry, the poor...
hearty - a person's real heart, love for love ones and faith for God...
Tonight we dine in hell - if we don't be 'READY' and repent ours sins we will be dining in hell!

i am a christian and believe in my faith, but i think the world has been living for so long why not it continue... we will truly never know when the world will end.. it has been continuing to survive for millions of years, why choose this time, because a few words add up in a sentence, i just gave you proof that any context giving has a meaning to something if it wants too(even though it might sound stupid coming from the movie "300")
and why worry anyway, if the world will end GetBig will till be alive, and Milos will till be talking shit, telling lies about how much pros take, i bet ya the bible has a whole chapter of milos' shit!

Necrosis

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2007, 09:42:57 AM »
So you have never sinned?  You have never done wrong to anyone?  Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it?  Something good you could have said, but never said it?  Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally?  Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work?  Ever take a pen or pencil home from work?  Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too?  Ever lied?  Ever told half truths?  Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?

this is bullshit, everything is a sin, we cannot do anything right, what is the point?

everyone, dont think about sex, even though that is the main purpose in life. evolution is fake, the mountains of evidence are false, God did it. Repent, nothing you do is good enough, if you dont ask for forgiveness for your worthless, unperfect life you will burn in the most wretched place in the universe HELL. Which this all-loving god created, even though he is all-loving he will allow you to burn in hell and suffer because you didnt ask for forgiveness for the things we are meant to do.

also, god is against gays, gayness is a genetic disposition, something your born with. All loving my ass.

Straw Man

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2007, 10:52:46 AM »
When you see Saddam in hell..........tell him I said.....Hhahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!

ah yes, there's that famous compassion that can only come from someone filled  with the "holy spirit".



Eyeball Chambers

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2007, 01:01:21 PM »
LOL @ Born Again Joe damning CJ to hell!!!  ;D

S

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2007, 10:48:20 AM »
LOL @ Born Again Joe damning CJ to hell!!!  ;D



but joes on gods side, he will kill everyone who doesnt ask for forgiveness and joe will be there to laugh at those that are suffering for eternity in hell

loco

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2007, 09:58:16 AM »
this is bullshit, everything is a sin,

No, not everything is a sin.

we cannot do anything right, what is the point?

Yes, we can.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

everyone, dont think about sex, even though that is the main purpose in life.

The main purpose in life is sex?    ;D

evolution is fake, the mountains of evidence are false, God did it. Repent, nothing you do is good enough, if you dont ask for forgiveness for your worthless, unperfect life you will burn in the most wretched place in the universe HELL. Which this all-loving god created, even though he is all-loving he will allow you to burn in hell and suffer because you didnt ask for forgiveness for the things we are meant to do.

God didn't create hell for us humans.  But we do have the choice to go there to pay for our own sins. 

Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

But we also have the choice to believe and accept that Jesus Christ already paid for our sins.  This is really what God wants us to choose.

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

also, god is against gays, gayness is a genetic disposition, something your born with. All loving my ass.

God is against sin and evil.  I believe God is loving, just, good and righteous.  But what if He wasn't?  What if God was cruel?  Who are we to tell Him what is right or wrong or what is good or evil?  He created the universe after all, including us.  Can God not run it as He sees fit and do whatever He wants?  He calls the shots, not us.

Job 1:21
"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."

Job 13:15
Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.

MB_722

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2007, 05:01:02 PM »
I came across this looking for some info.  found it to be interesting

Question
Hello Rabbi Moss,

I was brought up an atheist Jew, and have a BA in Religious Studies (i.e. comparative religion).

I was recently wondering where Christianity got its concept of original sin, because, as far as I know, it doesn't really exist in Judaism. My understanding has always been that according to Judaism, we are born into this often miserable world (simplisticly the result of the Fall); we are born neither good or bad, but we have the ability to go with our yetzer tov or yetzer hara (which I have understood to mean good or bad inclinations). The sins for which we atone at New Years are those done during the past year, and not anything more integral to who we are. I assume any sacrifice that was made when the Temple existed would have been for that.

Therefore, the sin then becoming in Christianity one that exists at birth and that is integral to one's very being would seem to be a new concept.

Of course, I'm not sure there was a Jewish concept of a soul in the first place, but that's another topic.

Do you have any information on this 'original sin' question, what the Fall indicated, and was the implication of 'sin'?

Thank you.
Dori Jaffe

Answer
Dear Dori,
The Jewish view of the sin of Adam and Eve is very different from the Christian one. In fact, when looked at deeply, it is questionable whether the sin was evil at all.

Judaism is emphatic that a person is born innocent - not evil, not good either, but innocent. We are given a clean slate. But we are not born into an innocent world. The world we are born into is one of challenge, difficulty, pain and evil. But all these are merely means to an end: it is through facing challenges that we grow as human beings, through going through difficulty we bring out deeper resources from within, through pain we become stronger and by combatting evil we create a world of good. So all negativity in the world is just a facade - behind it is ultimate goodness.

That's how reality is now. But it was not like that in the beginning. Adam and Eve were pure beings who entered a perfect world. There was no challenge, pain or death in their world. The "knowledge of good and evil" was a tree that they were told to stay away from in order to maintain this perfect world. "On the day you eat from the tree you will become mortal" said G-d. Eve picked up on a nuance in this warning. Here is my reconstruction of Eve's thought process:

G-d is giving us a choice. We can either remain perfect in a perfect world, or we can ingest the knowledge of good and evil and become imperfect (mortal). What should we choose? Well, G-d created us with a purpose. But what purpose could there be in remaining perfect? G-d was perfect before we were created, so what are we adding? Our purpose must be to face imperfection and make that perfect too, through our own efforts. That's something only we can do, because only we can be imperfect (G-d "can't" do that). So she ate of the tree and convinced Adam to eat it too.

Mortality was not a punishment for eating the fruit, but rather the natural consequence (because only a perfect being is immortal). So too the other "curses" - pain in childbirth and difficulty in making a living are the natural consequences of Eve's choice, because from now on, all achievement has to be earned, which means that nothing can be "born" without hardship.

As descendants of Adam and Eve we have inherited this path - the path of facing challenges, fighting evil and trying to bring the world back to its previous perfection. Every time we overcome a negative urge, or we transform an evil situation to a holy one, we win a battle in this war. We make the world a little bit more comfortable for G-d's presence to be manifest. When the sum total of all the good in all generations reaches a certain point, G-d will send the Messiah. He is a human leader who will teach the world how to put the finishing touches on the work of perfecting the world. He will bring material peace between all nations of the world, he will make peace between the spiritual ideals of how the world should be and the practical reality of how the world is, he will bring down the heavens and reveal them on earth. And he won't die, nor will anyone, because evil and death will have been vanquished for ever.

To summarise:
1) The "sin" of Adam and Eve was in fact a conscious choice, a necessary step in the development of humanity's purpose. It was the introduciton of imperfection into creation - something only humans can do.
2) We are not born evil, but we are born in a world of apparent evil and hidden goodness. Our mission is to reveal that goodness.

All the best,
Rabbi Moss


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Orthodox-Judaism-952/Original-Sin.htm

OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2007, 03:53:19 PM »
Good article.


MB_722

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2007, 02:46:16 PM »
Good article.



thanks
nobody else replied.

hehehe

I like their concept regarding this.

born innocent rather than in sin.


OzmO

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Re: PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE - Courtesy of Mr. Intenseone
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2007, 02:54:09 PM »
thanks
nobody else replied.

hehehe

I like their concept regarding this.

born innocent rather than in sin.



It's like they are saying we are all born losers.  I don;t accept that.  We are born with the seeds of greatness.