Immigration question

[Decker]

Illegals just want the benefits of living here without really being citizens.  This is obvious by current illegals saying that despite this bill, they would not want to pay the money or cooperate with government agencies or even leave and come back, which the plan sets up to happen.  These politicians are stupid to think these people will all be politically active or even a fraction for that matter.  Take the recent LAPD incident.  The big stink of this came from the reporters who were injured, not the illegals.  The illegals are hard working people, but they are not as politically active as people think.  If that were the black community that was injured you better believe people would have been fired, Bratton gone and probably a riot and definite Fed intervention.  The push for illegals is simply to be out of Mexico IMO.  If this bill passes, they will organize.  The AFL-CIO already stated that this is their goal.  You think things are bad now, give them "amnesty" because that is what it is, and see how high wages go.  They will be the same as what a citizen would get.  So all this talk about cheap labor will be a thing of the past within a few years of the citizenships be granted.  We ought to boot them out and just make the welfare bums do their jobs.  It really isn't that hard.  The labor is still being done for the same amount of money that is already being spent.  Split the bill between business and gov't and you have a cheap labor force still.

That's an excellent point.

[Parker]

IMO, both the dems and repubs know quietly that without the illegals, our economy takes a huge hit.  And, since china can work folks cheap, and we need to compete, we need mex labor.

I just want to hear the anti-imm. folks here, who also parrot everything bush says, comment on Bush standing on the white house lawn this morning talking about how great this bill is. 


BTW-
It's not about votes - it's about the economy.   you don't do this in mid-07 for a Nov 08 election.  This is about saving our economy from chinese expansion by using mex labor and can resources - the n american union unfolding before our eyes. 

Same argument that Pro-Slavery activist used. We did fine without it.

If the argument that we need Illegal ( and not all these workers are Mexican, Rob, many are from El Salvador and Guatamala) labor, then why is it that Most of our goods come from China, your shoes made from Thailand, etc.?
 There is no proof of what you say, that we need them. Just as as there was no proof for the South to keep free labor.

Why can't the the Mexican government say to many of these corporations, "we will do it cheaper than the Chinese"?

Furthermore, I don't agree with the whole ,"Mexicans are hard workers" bit. Because if they were, why is Mexico the way it is?

I think this is another way of keeping a psuedo-slave system in the US and keeping Latinos as second class citizens and Mr. Bush is is fitting right in as being "Massa".

[Cap]

Same argument that Pro-Slavery activist used. We did fine without it.

If the argument that we need Illegal ( and not all these workers are Mexican, Rob, many are from El Salvador and Guatamala) labor, then why is it that Most of our goods come from China, your shoes made from Thailand, etc.?
 There is no proof of what you say, that we need them. Just as as there was no proof for the South to keep free labor.

Why can't the the Mexican government say to many of these corporations, "we will do it cheaper than the Chinese"?

Furthermore, I don't agree with the whole ,"Mexicans are hard workers" bit. Because if they were, why is Mexico the way it is?

I think this is another way of keeping a psuedo-slave system in the US and keeping Latinos as second class citizens and Mr. Bush is is fitting right in as being "Massa".

1.) Rob is a Dem and bringing illegals here is good for his party.

2.) Mexico is the way it is because there is no middle class, just filthy rich and dirt poor.

3.) Mexicans do work hard but do not want to obey our laws.

[Camel Jockey]

I think this is another way of keeping a psuedo-slave system in the US and keeping Latinos as second class citizens and Mr. Bush is is fitting right in as being "Massa".

Your analogy to slavery is pretty funny.. And what you're saying doesn't make much sense either.. Bush is letting mexicans in so they can be second class citizens?   Business sectors such as agriculture, food service and private contracting need illegals.. My uncle's resteraunt employs several mexicans(dunno if they're illegal) but they, along with immigrants from my own motherland, work 50-60 hours a week for minimum wage. I've never seen my uncle employing people in accordance to the demographic of the area. I've seen african, asian and especially hispanic immigrants working for him, but never any by-borns. This tells that we need immigrants to keep growing.. The US already admits more immigrants legally than any other nation. Bush knows we need fresh laborers, so he's letting hispanics come here, but I don't see how he's treating them unfairly.

If you're gonna say hispanics are being treated unfairly, then naturally you should say the same for all immigrants, whether they're legal or illegal.

[Parker]

1.) Rob is a Dem and bringing illegals here is good for his party.

2.) Mexico is the way it is because there is no middle class, just filthy rich and dirt poor.

3.) Mexicans do work hard but do not want to obey our laws.

Others work just as hard.  again, Mexican need to stand up and fixed their country (and African nations Business sectors such as agriculture, food service and private contracting need illegals.. My uncle's resteraunt employs several mexicans(dunno if they're illegal) but they, along with immigrants from my own motherland, work 50-60 hours a week for minimum wage. I've never seen my uncle employing people in need to do the same), it is only the people that can control their destinies

Your analogy to slavery is pretty funny.. And what you're saying doesn't make much sense either.. Bush is letting mexicans in so they can be second class citizens?

Yep, The South was saying that they needed slavery, and could not exist without, hence the supposed balance between slave and free states. The South wanted to continue this flawed way of life (Hell, if you had free labor, wouldn't you want to continue it?) So, Succession...

Just as then, America has't learned from it's lessons, and the Plantations are now replaced with businesses, who suspposedly need immigrants (whether illegal or legal), just as the Plantation owners couldn't  survive without slaves. Mean-while American citizens grow lazier by the minute because they rely on cheap labor to do things for them ( you mean to tell me you can't find college students to cut your business grass---or better yet get your fat ass out there and do it yourself!!) , it is all a vicious cycle

[Camel Jockey]

Parker, these people have the opportunity to make their lives better. A slave never had that..

And americans will do certain jobs, but not for 7 bucks an hour. Corporations save money and have a better bottom line.. That's capitalism for ya. People will always get trampled on but atleast they have the chance to work their way up the ladder.

[egj13]

Parker, these people have the opportunity to make their lives better. A slave never had that..

And americans will do certain jobs, but not for 7 bucks an hour. Corporations save money and have a better bottom line.. That's capitalism for ya. People will always get trampled on but atleast they have the chance to work their way up the ladder.

Are you serioulsy telling me that if black slaves would have been left in Africa, they would have been better off today? The black slaves paved the path for todays black americans to have what they have. Mexicans might not have better lives today, but the future generations will, just like the black community.

[Camel Jockey]

Are you serioulsy telling me that if black slaves would have been left in Africa, they would have been better off today? The black slaves paved the path for todays black americans to have what they have. Mexicans might not have better lives today, but the future generations will, just like the black community.

MM69, I was just telling him that his slaves - mexicans analogy was foolish. If you think it's a good comparison then you're a fucking nut.

[Parker]

Parker, these people have the opportunity to make their lives better. A slave never had that..

And americans will do certain jobs, but not for 7 bucks an hour. Corporations save money and have a better bottom line.. That's capitalism for ya. People will always get trampled on but atleast they have the chance to work their way up the ladder.

In order to make their lives better, then when they were in Mexico, they would DEMAND a change from their government. But as many are illertate in their own language, and lack education, it is hard to do. But as a Great Slave owner once said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants". And unfortunately, the Mexican people would rather cross the border than to change their own governments, (spill blood or not---a true Revolution) but demand we change ours.

And unless Mexicans or any others from third world countries truly want to make a change, they need to change their governments. Take a stand.

Furthermore, when will it end? If the Chinese see that we will allow amnesty to illegals, what will happen if the Chinese economy collapses....Many of those poor will try to come over here.

There is no documentation that we need cheap labor, and the fallacy is that many doing the "$7 an hour". Unfortunately, in construction, one makes quite a bit more.

The funny thing is, there is a signifigant brain drain in America, our engineers and mathematicians are going to other countries for jobs, soon we will be a service oriented society and this reliance on unskilled labor only accellerates the rate at which will get to that point.

[Camel Jockey]

There is no documentation that we need cheap labor, and the fallacy is that many doing the "$7 an hour". Unfortunately, in construction, one makes quite a bit more.

The documentation lies within suppy and demand, friend. And did you read what I wrote about my uncle's resteraunt?

You're right to a degree in that these people are somewhat illiterate. Which is what I fear.. Will these immigrants and their offspring amount to anything? America is getting lazier, but letting these people in will leave our future generations unprepared to compete in future when everything will be global.

Furthermore, when will it end? If the Chinese see that we will allow amnesty to illegals, what will happen if the Chinese economy collapses....Many of those poor will try to come over here.

I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. Also, keep in mind that China does not border us while Mexico does. It's simply easier for mexicans to border hop than it is for some asian to overstay his/her visa.

[beatmaster]

when they get citizenship, what if they all go on welfare?

talk about losing your identity!!!

[Cap]

What else are these illegals and poor citizens qualified to do? Our own citizens drop out of school too early and can only make 7-8 an hour or they don't take advantage of vocational training, not to mention that welfare recipients and illegals have 5+ children.  If they bitch about having to support a huge family, tough shit.  Their labor could easily be done by Americans who speak English but nobody wants to do it/they can't because why pay someone $5/hr when you can pay an illegal $3/hr?  However, CJ, if they are all legal then your uncle will probably be paying $6/hr if the AFL-CIO has its way.  They will be no good to anyone if they are all citizens.  Higher wages, higher priced goods, more welfare taxes.  We are better off having Wal Marts down there and let the Mexican gov't deal with providing wages.  If these illegals cannot come up with 5,000 dollars then legally lets boot their asses out.  See ya.

[ANAL DISCHARGE]

Most immigrants by their nature are scum and should be shot.

[Dos Equis]

Are you serioulsy telling me that if black slaves would have been left in Africa, they would have been better off today? The black slaves paved the path for todays black americans to have what they have. Mexicans might not have better lives today, but the future generations will, just like the black community.

What about the thousands of "black slaves" who were raped, murdered, mutilated, and separated from their families?  What about the descendents of black slaves who had to endure the black codes and Jim Crow?  Were all of those folks better off? 

And what about the many black Americans who are not descendents of slaves? 

[The Enigma]

Mexicans do work hard but do not want to obey our laws.

My Mexican housekeeper not only works hard, she also obeys our laws and is compensated handsomely for her great work ethic.

 

[Cap]

My Mexican housekeeper not only works hard, she also obeys our laws and is compensated handsomely for her great work ethic.

If she is here illegally then she does not obey the law.

[Camel Jockey]

If you find a hot latina maid then you should try and fuck her.. Easy, and if you hit to spot right she'll scream "IEEEEE POPPIEEEE!"

[The Coach]

My Mexican housekeeper not only works hard, she also obeys our laws and is compensated handsomely for her great work ethic.

 

So does mine, but she IS legal. BTW, your not running for office are you ?

[Parker]

My Mexican housekeeper not only works hard, she also obeys our laws and is compensated handsomely for her great work ethic.

 

And how about cleaning up your own house? It teaches responsibility. There is nothing lazier than not cleaning or picking up behind yourself. plus money is saved.

I can't get Americans who like to have good lawns, but don't get  their fat asses up to do it themselves, but pay others to do it. My dad keeps his lawn up meticulously, and is always told by neighbors that is lawn is the best in the neighborhood. It's all in a manner of if you are lazy or not....Many Americans too lazy.