Author Topic: Empathy Exercise  (Read 3628 times)

Laughing Sam's Dice

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Empathy Exercise
« on: May 30, 2007, 01:01:13 PM »
Hypothetical situation-

An imperialistic country invades the U.S. claiming they believe our president has access to weapons of mass destruction and will use them against their country.  They also claim that they will liberate us from the evil tyrant.  While they are here, they just so happen to take over our primary natural resource and have their companies come in to manage that resource.  During their four year occupation, they continue to kill U.S. citizens who oppose their occupation. They claim that the puppet government they set up is legitimate, and any U.S. citizens who are against that government are labeled as terrorists and insurgents.

Personally, your father was detained and humilitated by this invading army, your mother has been a nervous wreck for years, your dog has been missing since one of the days of bombing and gunfire in your neighborhood.  Your grandmother suffered a heart attack and died after her city was bombed.  You don't know the whereabouts of your best friend.  You and your family have very little to eat.  Your freedom of movement is restricted and you need permission to travel.

What would you do? 

How should the world see you?  If you fight the invading army, should you be seen as a terrorist/insurgent?  Should you believe that the invading army is there for your best interest and you should hold no grudge against them despite their abuses. 

How would you expect the children who grow up in this situation to view the invading country?  Do you think they might have a legitimate reason to hate their occupiers, and to organize and attack that country when they are old enough?  What has the invading country created in the experiences of the kids who were subjected to this war?
Stick out your tongue.

headhuntersix

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007, 01:04:56 PM »
Did the US government invade say..Canada..gas Michigan...torture folks from Mississippi..support terrorists in Northern Ireland..threaten to invade Mexico?
L

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 01:09:06 PM »
Hypothetical situation-

An imperialistic country invades the U.S. claiming they believe our president has access to weapons of mass destruction and will use them against their country.  They also claim that they will liberate us from the evil tyrant.  While they are here, they just so happen to take over our primary natural resource and have their companies come in to manage that resource.  During their four year occupation, they continue to kill U.S. citizens who oppose their occupation. They claim that the puppet government they set up is legitimate, and any U.S. citizens who are against that government are labeled as terrorists and insurgents.

Personally, your father was detained and humilitated by this invading army, your mother has been a nervous wreck for years, your dog has been missing since one of the days of bombing and gunfire in your neighborhood.  Your grandmother suffered a heart attack and died after her city was bombed.  You don't know the whereabouts of your best friend.  You and your family have very little to eat.  Your freedom of movement is restricted and you need permission to travel.

What would you do? 

How should the world see you?  If you fight the invading army, should you be seen as a terrorist/insurgent?  Should you believe that the invading army is there for your best interest and you should hold no grudge against them despite their abuses. 

How would you expect the children who grow up in this situation to view the invading country?  Do you think they might have a legitimate reason to hate their occupiers, and to organize and attack that country when they are old enough?  What has the invading country created in the experiences of the kids who were subjected to this war?

since it will never happen, I could care less...however, you have fallacies in your story so why not point them out...we are not at war with Iraq, nor are we fighting Iraqis. We are simply using their country as a battle front against terrorists instead of using our own. We have't stolen their natural resource, actually for the first time in years we have restored the profits to the people of the country instead of to one individual who used all of the profits to create chemical weapons to use on them. We are paying them for the oil in other words. We aren't labeling the Iraqi people as insurgents, we are calling the insurgents...insurgents.
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The Enigma

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 01:10:07 PM »
Hypothetical situation-

What would you do? 


I'd become a US insurgent.

Dos Equis

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 01:13:06 PM »
Did the US government invade say..Canada..gas Michigan...torture folks from Mississippi..support terrorists in Northern Ireland..threaten to invade Mexico?

lol.  Guess that blows up this exercise.   :)

240 is Back

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 01:13:32 PM »
It's funny... anyone who supports the war will refuse to answer this question!!

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 01:16:54 PM »
It's funny... anyone who supports the war will refuse to answer this question!!

guess you missed mine.....if we were at war with Iraq I could see apoint to his question...but since we aren't
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Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 01:17:30 PM »
we are not at war with Iraq, nor are we fighting Iraqis.
Okay, so there is no war, and the killing of Iraqis is not fighting Iraqis.  That must be special military logic.


We are simply using their country as a battle front against terrorists instead of using our own.
Who are the "terrorists?"  The people who fight the U.S.?  That's one of the points of the scenario.
We created an increased number of anti-U.S. fighers by our invasion- something we had no right to do.

We have't stolen their natural resource, actually for the first time in years we have restored the profits to the people of the country instead of to one individual who used all of the profits to create chemical weapons to use on them. We are paying them for the oil in other words.

Which militiary-approved literature are you referring to that is showing that Haliburton is giving the money to the Iraqi people.
Naive.

We aren't labeling the Iraqi people as insurgents, we are calling the insurgents...insurgents.

Clue- "insurgent" is a label that we place on Iraqi people who do not want us in their country.
Stick out your tongue.

Decker

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 01:20:04 PM »
since it will never happen, I could care less...however, you have fallacies in your story so why not point them out...we are not at war with Iraq, nor are we fighting Iraqis. We are simply using their country as a battle front against terrorists instead of using our own. We have't stolen their natural resource, actually for the first time in years we have restored the profits to the people of the country instead of to one individual who used all of the profits to create chemical weapons to use on them. We are paying them for the oil in other words. We aren't labeling the Iraqi people as insurgents, we are calling the insurgents...insurgents.
We are fighting Iraqis.  The insurgency is comprised largley of Iraqi Shia, Iraqi Sunni, Iraqi Bathist, Iraqi Nationalists with a very small segment of foreign fighters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insurgency#Composition

We are commandeering their resources.  This law legalizes PSAs (production sharing agreements) in Iraq. Iraq will be the only country in the middle east with such contracts privatising Iraqi oil and giving foreign companies crazy rates of profit that may reach to more than three fourth of the general revenue.  http://www.mediachannel.org/wordpress/2007/02/20/leaked-iraq-oil-law-document/

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2007, 01:28:07 PM »
So from what I read of the groupsl they focus on....One is Iran linked, one is left over Saddam loyalists, one is Al-Sadr's militia, a communist group, and foreign insurgents.

So the mojority of the insurgency is non Iraqi. The fighting iraqis don't represent the average Iraqi.
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Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2007, 01:30:37 PM »
So from what I read of the groupsl they focus on....One is Iran linked, one is left over Saddam loyalists, one is Al-Sadr's militia, a communist group, and foreign insurgents.

So the mojority of the insurgency is non Iraqi. The fighting iraqis don't represent the average Iraqi.

"From what you've read"  That says a lot.  I suppose you think the Iraqis are just sitting quietly in their homes rooting for the U.S. "liberators" to stop the other foreign invaders.  ::)
Stick out your tongue.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2007, 01:34:11 PM »
"From what you've read"  That says a lot.  I suppose you think the Iraqis are just sitting quietly in their homes rooting for the U.S. "liberators" to stop the other foreign invaders.  ::)

I was refering to his link...however from my time spent there (can you say that) they are rooting for us to help restore peace. The average Iraqi knows what we bring to their country.
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Decker

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2007, 01:38:10 PM »
So from what I read of the groupsl they focus on....One is Iran linked, one is left over Saddam loyalists, one is Al-Sadr's militia, a communist group, and foreign insurgents.

So the mojority of the insurgency is non Iraqi. The fighting iraqis don't represent the average Iraqi.
You are mistaken.  

The Insurgents are overwhelmingly Iraqi citizens.  

While it is not known how many of those resisting the U.S. occupation in Iraq are from outside the country, it is generally agreed that foreign fighters make up a very small percentage of the insurgency. Major General Joseph Taluto, head of the 42nd Infantry Division, said that "99.9 per cent" of captured insurgents are Iraqi.

The estimate has been confirmed by the Pentagon's own figures; in one analysis of over 1000 insurgents captured in Fallujah, only 15 were non-Iraqi. Source:  wikipedia Iraqi Insurgency composition

Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2007, 01:38:29 PM »
The average Iraqi knows what we bring to their country.

Civil war, death, corporate theft, neo-conservative political failure...
yeah, I'm sure they're rooting for us.
Stick out your tongue.

Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2007, 01:40:17 PM »
The Insurgents are overwhelmingly Iraqi citizens.  

Don't buy into the propaganda label of "insurgent," or "terrorist."  They are citizens defending their country from an invading/occupying army.
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militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2007, 01:43:04 PM »
Civil war, death, corporate theft, neo-conservative political failure...
yeah, I'm sure they're rooting for us.

Have you been there??? hmmm I'm guessing not....keep surfing the internet nerd...
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militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2007, 01:44:33 PM »
You are mistaken.  

The Insurgents are overwhelmingly Iraqi citizens.  

While it is not known how many of those resisting the U.S. occupation in Iraq are from outside the country, it is generally agreed that foreign fighters make up a very small percentage of the insurgency. Major General Joseph Taluto, head of the 42nd Infantry Division, said that "99.9 per cent" of captured insurgents are Iraqi.

The estimate has been confirmed by the Pentagon's own figures; in one analysis of over 1000 insurgents captured in Fallujah, only 15 were non-Iraqi.

so your first link was wrong?
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Decker

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2007, 01:46:28 PM »
Don't buy into the propaganda label of "insurgent," or "terrorist."  They are citizens defending their country from an invading/occupying army.
I get what you are saying and I do agree with you.  But sometimes in the interest of rhetoric, I will use terminology provisionally. 

Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2007, 01:47:09 PM »
Have you been there??? hmmm I'm guessing not....keep surfing the internet nerd...

Strapping on a gun and invading a country isn't the greatest background to base your implied claim of "knowledgeable world traveler."
Stick out your tongue.

Decker

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2007, 01:47:14 PM »

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2007, 01:48:16 PM »
Strapping on a gun and invading a country isn't the greatest background to base your implied claim of "knowledgeable world traveler."

I've had dinner with the average Iraqi...I know what is truly going on with the majority of that countries people
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Laughing Sam's Dice

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2007, 01:49:06 PM »
I get what you are saying and I do agree with you.  But sometimes in the interest of rhetoric, I will use terminology provisionally. 

The price for that convenience is supporting the socially constructed belief that the Iraqis fighting U.S. forces are "illegitimate."  
Stick out your tongue.

Decker

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2007, 01:49:34 PM »
I've had dinner with the average Iraqi...I know what is truly going on with the majority of that countries people
Your anecdotal evidence counts for something.  But everybody else in the universe outside of the Bush Administration knows that the insurgency is composed of Iraqi people.

240 is Back

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2007, 01:51:08 PM »
I've had dinner with the average Iraqi...I know what is truly going on with the majority of that countries people

Cotton candy for dessert?

militarymuscle69

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Re: Empathy Exercise
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2007, 01:52:32 PM »
Your anecdotal evidence counts for something.  But everybody else in the universe outside of the Bush Administration knows that the insurgency is composed of Iraqi people.

What I am saying is the insurgency isn't representative of the average Iraqi, Like the people in Sadr's militia...they are Iraqi, but are followers of a mad man that sees this as his one chance to become the new saddam....
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