How does ones stomach get this big?

[disco_stu]

D..im happy..i'll never suggest the ''O'' word again.

thanks!

[Brutal_1]

How's this one 

Influence of ghrelin on gastric and duodenal growth and expression of digestive enzymes in young mature rats.

Warzecha Z, Dembiński A, Ceranowicz P, Dembiński M, Cieszkowski J, Konturek SJ, Polus A, Pawlik WW, Kuwahara A, Kato I, Konturek PC.
Department of Physiology, Jagiellonian University Medical College, Krakow, Poland. mpdembin@cyf-kr.edu.pl

Ghrelin, a nature ligand for the growth hormone secretagogue receptor (GHS-R), stimulates a release of growth hormone, prolactin and adrenocorticotropic hormone. Also, ghrelin increases food intake in adult rats and humans and exhibits gastroprotective effect against experimental ulcers induced by ethanol or stress. The aim of present study was to examine the influence of ghrelin administration on gastric and duodenal growth and expression of pepsin and enterokinase in young mature rats with intact or removed pituitary. METHODS: Two week after sham operation or hypophysectomy, eight week old Wistar male rats were treated with saline (control) or ghrelin (4, 8 or 16 nmol/kg/dose) i.p. twice a day for 4 days. Expression of pepsin in the stomach and enterokinase in the duodenum was evaluated by real-time PCR. RESULTS: In animals with intact pituitary, treatment with ghrelin increased food intake, body weight gain and serum level of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1). These effects were accompanied with stimulation of gastric and duodenal growth. It was recognized as the significant increase in gastric and duodenal weight and mucosal DNA synthesis. In both organs, ghrelin administered at the dose of 8 nmol/kg caused maximal growth-promoting effect. In contrast to these growth-promoting effects, administration of ghrelin reduced expression of mRNA for pepsin in the stomach and was without effect on expression of mRNA for enterokinase in the duodenum. Hypophysectomy alone lowered serum concentration of growth hormone under the detection limit and reduced serum level of IGF-1 by 90%. These effects were associated with reduction in daily food intake, body weight gain and gastroduodenal growth. In hypophysectomized rats, administration of ghrelin was without significant effect on food intake, body weight gain or growth of gastroduodenal mucosa. Also, serum concentration of growth hormone or IGF-1 was not affected by ghrelin administration in rats with removed pituitary. CONCLUSION: Administration of ghrelin stimulates gastric and duodenal growth in young mature rats with intact pituitary, but inhibits expression of mRNA for pepsin in the stomach. Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 play an essential role in growth-promoting effects of ghrelin in the stomach and duodenum.

[swoody]

How's this one 

Influence of ghrelin on gastric and duodenal growth and expression of digestive enzymes in young mature rats.

Warzecha Z, Dembiński A, Ceranowicz P, Dembiński M, Cieszkowski J, Konturek SJ, Polus A, Pawlik WW, Kuwahara A, Kato I, Konturek PC.
Department of Physiology, Jagiellonian University Medical College, Krakow, Poland. mpdembin@cyf-kr.edu.pl

Ghrelin, a nature ligand for the growth hormone secretagogue receptor (GHS-R), stimulates a release of growth hormone, prolactin and adrenocorticotropic hormone. Also, ghrelin increases food intake in adult rats and humans and exhibits gastroprotective effect against experimental ulcers induced by ethanol or stress. The aim of present study was to examine the influence of ghrelin administration on gastric and duodenal growth and expression of pepsin and enterokinase in young mature rats with intact or removed pituitary. METHODS: Two week after sham operation or hypophysectomy, eight week old Wistar male rats were treated with saline (control) or ghrelin (4, 8 or 16 nmol/kg/dose) i.p. twice a day for 4 days. Expression of pepsin in the stomach and enterokinase in the duodenum was evaluated by real-time PCR. RESULTS: In animals with intact pituitary, treatment with ghrelin increased food intake, body weight gain and serum level of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1). These effects were accompanied with stimulation of gastric and duodenal growth. It was recognized as the significant increase in gastric and duodenal weight and mucosal DNA synthesis. In both organs, ghrelin administered at the dose of 8 nmol/kg caused maximal growth-promoting effect. In contrast to these growth-promoting effects, administration of ghrelin reduced expression of mRNA for pepsin in the stomach and was without effect on expression of mRNA for enterokinase in the duodenum. Hypophysectomy alone lowered serum concentration of growth hormone under the detection limit and reduced serum level of IGF-1 by 90%. These effects were associated with reduction in daily food intake, body weight gain and gastroduodenal growth. In hypophysectomized rats, administration of ghrelin was without significant effect on food intake, body weight gain or growth of gastroduodenal mucosa. Also, serum concentration of growth hormone or IGF-1 was not affected by ghrelin administration in rats with removed pituitary. CONCLUSION: Administration of ghrelin stimulates gastric and duodenal growth in young mature rats with intact pituitary, but inhibits expression of mRNA for pepsin in the stomach. Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 play an essential role in growth-promoting effects of ghrelin in the stomach and duodenum.

Someone's been using google...   Good find

[Brutal_1]

Someone's been using google...   Good find

Yeah, there's not a lot out there on this topic, obviously because nobody ever expected "healthy" men to take these amounts of GH in conjuction with AAS AND insulin.  But I mean if a little amount of GH WITHOUT these other two compounds can cause GI growth...it should be pretty safe to assume that along with aas and slin, you're going to get some funky stuff goin on down there! 


I wish they would to studies using pro bodybuilders....science can learn a lot from these walking chemistry projects! 

[Disgusted]

How's this one 

Bro, at the risk of being called a retard   the duodenum is only a very small part of the stomach and would have no bearing as to enlargment pertaining to what we are seeing in bbers and their enlarged stomach.

Also, this study uses ghrelin which again does not pertain directly to intestinal growth and if it did still does not prove that exgenous GH, IGF and insulin stimulates enlargement in the intestines.

[Brutal_1]

Bro, at the risk of being called a retard   the duodenum is only a very small part of the stomach and would have no bearing as to enlargment pertaining to what we are seeing in bbers and their enlarged stomach.

Also, this study uses ghrelin which again does not pertain directly to intestinal growth and if it did still does not prove that exgenous GH, IGF and insulin stimulates enlargement in the intestines.

No worries....I'd hate to be called a retard 

1.  A little anatomy 101...the duodenom is NOT part of the stomach, it's separated by the Pyloric sphincter and is actually the beginning of the SI.

2.  Yes, you can be "nit picky" about how there are no EXACT studies concerning "32 yo male taking 16iu Humatrope with 8iu Humalog, 2grams test blah blah blah"...but what these studies show is simply that it's NOT far fetched to see that GH alone DOES in fact affect the size of the GI tract....sadly, there are no studies done to show the effects of GH/Slin/AAS, as it would be illegal to perform such a study, especially on human subjects. 

Maybe Kamali could volunteer??? 

[swoody]

well put.

[Disgusted]

No worries....I'd hate to be called a retard 

1.  A little anatomy 101...the duodenom is NOT part of the stomach, it's separated by the Pyloric sphincter and is actually the beginning of the SI.

2.  Yes, you can be "nit picky" about how there are no EXACT studies concerning "32 yo male taking 16iu Humatrope with 8iu Humalog, 2grams test blah blah blah"...but what these studies show is simply that it's NOT far fetched to see that GH alone DOES in fact affect the size of the GI tract....sadly, there are no studies done to show the effects of GH/Slin/AAS, as it would be illegal to perform such a study, especially on human subjects. 

Maybe Kamali could volunteer??? 

Yes you are correct about the duodenum since we are "nit picking" it is still considered part of the digestive tract.

I fear that we are getting of topic. A lot of people come on here and say that enlarged organs are causing the stomach distension. I am NOT arguing that organs can't enlarge such as the liver, spleen, gall bladder ect although I will put up an argument that the intestines can not enlarge to any great degree.

These studies that you and woodbrain are posting are not relevent at all. First they were done on mice and they give no data as to whether the mice still had function of their organs and if so to what degree. Please correct me if I am wrong on this as I did noting more than scan it. Also, they are using other drugs in their studies to produce these effects that BBers do not take. Even if these tests that you site were valid to our argument did they say whether  the intestines grew in length or in thickness. My guess would be thickness and that would be in measured MM. I can tell you this, there is no way that someones intestines will grow in length to any great degree.

As I said before, this distension is due to visceral fat from too much insulin. I had a friend who died of liver cancer and I remember seeing him not too long before he died. his liver was swollen pretty bad. Have you ever seen someone with enlarged organs such as the liver or anything else? I can tell you first hand that it is NOT a symmetrical appearance!! His stomach was bigger on one side than the other due to the fact that each organ that was inflammed was a different size to begin with. Do you follow what I am saying?

These guys stomachs are perfectly symmetrical which indicated that it is NOT due to an enlarged organ. Once organs enlarge they take on a very lumpy appearance. Can you imagine what the intestines would look like if they grow?? Your stomach would look like you had a bunch of snakes in it trying to get out. It would NOT be perfectly symmetrical and it would only be enlarged in the lower abdominal region.

Since you mention King. If his organs were enlarged then how did I manage to shrink his intestines and other organs down to normal size?? Damn, if I could do that I would be a billionaire. As far as I know, I am the only one who has taken someone with this type of problem and corrected it to any great degree. Proof is in the pictures. Not braggin just simply stating fact.

[Rami]

Yes you are correct about the duodenum since we are "nit picking" it is still considered part of the digestive tract.

I fear that we are getting of topic. A lot of people come on here and say that enlarged organs are causing the stomach distension. I am NOT arguing that organs can't enlarge such as the liver, spleen, gall bladder ect although I will put up an argument that the intestines can not enlarge to any great degree.

These studies that you and woodbrain are posting are not relevent at all. First they were done on mice and they give no data as to whether the mice still had function of their organs and if so to what degree. Please correct me if I am wrong on this as I did noting more than scan it. Also, they are using other drugs in their studies to produce these effects that BBers do not take. Even if these tests that you site were valid to our argument did they say whether  the intestines grew in length or in thickness. My guess would be thickness and that would be in measured MM. I can tell you this, there is no way that someones intestines will grow in length to any great degree.

As I said before, this distension is due to visceral fat from too much insulin. I had a friend who died of liver cancer and I remember seeing him not too long before he died. his liver was swollen pretty bad. Have you ever seen someone with enlarged organs such as the liver or anything else? I can tell you first hand that it is NOT a symmetrical appearance!! His stomach was bigger on one side than the other due to the fact that each organ that was inflammed was a different size to begin with. Do you follow what I am saying?

These guys stomachs are perfectly symmetrical which indicated that it is NOT due to an enlarged organ. Once organs enlarge they take on a very lumpy appearance. Can you imagine what the intestines would look like if they grow?? Your stomach would look like you had a bunch of snakes in it trying to get out. It would NOT be perfectly symmetrical and it would only be enlarged in the lower abdominal region.

Since you mention King. If his organs were enlarged then how did I manage to shrink his intestines and other organs down to normal size?? Damn, if I could do that I would be a billionaire. As far as I know, I am the only one who has taken someone with this type of problem and corrected it to any great degree. Proof is in the pictures. Not braggin just simply stating fact.

Good point.

[musclecenter]

Bro, at the risk of being called a retard  the duodenum is only a very small part of the stomach and would have no bearing as to enlargment pertaining to what we are seeing in bbers and their enlarged stomach.

Also, this study uses ghrelin which again does not pertain directly to intestinal growth and if it did still does not prove that exgenous GH, IGF and insulin stimulates enlargement in the intestines.

Thanks,very good post !
........................ ........................ .........
By the way ,are you  trainer "Magnum" of King Kamali ?

[Andre Nickatina]

Those GH guts look so good!

[legbreaker]

How in the world can anyone go on a pro stage like that?  That is just ridiculous.  You could look like Ronnie Coleman plus 20 pounds and if your abdominals and gut look like that it wouldn't matter.  No reason he should still be competing.

[Lewis]

Im really not sure about the over-eating argument.

Like look at Lee Priest on stage. Any gut? And hes known for really over eating in the off-season.

[dorkeroo]

Eating large amounts of carbs over the years will produce the same result.

Je$u$ it is good to have you here. I am so glad someone of authority finally explained this. This thread should be stickied so this question doesn't come up again.

[Brutal_1]

Yes you are correct about the duodenum since we are "nit picking" it is still considered part of the digestive tract.

I fear that we are getting of topic. A lot of people come on here and say that enlarged organs are causing the stomach distension. I am NOT arguing that organs can't enlarge such as the liver, spleen, gall bladder ect although I will put up an argument that the intestines can not enlarge to any great degree.

These studies that you and woodbrain are posting are not relevent at all. First they were done on mice and they give no data as to whether the mice still had function of their organs and if so to what degree. Please correct me if I am wrong on this as I did noting more than scan it. Also, they are using other drugs in their studies to produce these effects that BBers do not take. Even if these tests that you site were valid to our argument did they say whether  the intestines grew in length or in thickness. My guess would be thickness and that would be in measured MM. I can tell you this, there is no way that someones intestines will grow in length to any great degree.

As I said before, this distension is due to visceral fat from too much insulin. I had a friend who died of liver cancer and I remember seeing him not too long before he died. his liver was swollen pretty bad. Have you ever seen someone with enlarged organs such as the liver or anything else? I can tell you first hand that it is NOT a symmetrical appearance!! His stomach was bigger on one side than the other due to the fact that each organ that was inflammed was a different size to begin with. Do you follow what I am saying?

These guys stomachs are perfectly symmetrical which indicated that it is NOT due to an enlarged organ. Once organs enlarge they take on a very lumpy appearance. Can you imagine what the intestines would look like if they grow?? Your stomach would look like you had a bunch of snakes in it trying to get out. It would NOT be perfectly symmetrical and it would only be enlarged in the lower abdominal region.

Since you mention King. If his organs were enlarged then how did I manage to shrink his intestines and other organs down to normal size?? Damn, if I could do that I would be a billionaire. As far as I know, I am the only one who has taken someone with this type of problem and corrected it to any great degree. Proof is in the pictures. Not braggin just simply stating fact.

1. Well I love a good debate every now and again...you make some very good points and have a valid argument, plus you did it without calling me a retard, which is always a plus 

2.  Yes, you performed a miracle on kamali, aside from my personal opinion of him, his waist looked much better, kudos! 

3.  You're right, we're slightly veering off topic.  So please let me turn the tables on you, can you find a study that shows the adverse effects of chronic HGH use that does NOT result in GI growth???

So let me get this straight, you're saying that basically all these guys with big guts like DJ, Ronnie, Jay etc. are fat???  Okay....simple LOGICAL question then....if they're taking cutting drugs like clen, Cytomel, ephedra etc. etc. along with diet and cardio, why are they NOT burning this "visceral" fat??? 

Your theory?

[Disgusted]

Thanks,very good post !
........................ ........................ .........
By the way ,are you  trainer "Magnum" of King Kamali ?

Yes. 

[Disgusted]

1. Well I love a good debate every now and again...you make some very good points and have a valid argument, plus you did it without calling me a retard, which is always a plus 

2.  Yes, you performed a miracle on kamali, aside from my personal opinion of him, his waist looked much better, kudos! 

3.  You're right, we're slightly veering off topic.  So please let me turn the tables on you, can you find a study that shows the adverse effects of chronic HGH use that does NOT result in GI growth???

So let me get this straight, you're saying that basically all these guys with big guts like DJ, Ronnie, Jay etc. are fat???  Okay....simple LOGICAL question then....if they're taking cutting drugs like clen, Cytomel, ephedra etc. etc. along with diet and cardio, why are they NOT burning this "visceral" fat??? 

Your theory?

Yes, they are fat in terms of having too much visceral fat storage behind the abdominal wall. Most of the drugs that you mention are not used during that off season. When someone (not referring to anyone imparticular) is using say 40 to 80 units a days of insulin then these fat burning drugs will have no effect on visceral fat. I have no idea as to why the viscera lfat is stored in the gut?

As far as studies, you might be better off on studying someone who has acromeglia. I have never heard of someone with it that ever had and major problems with their intestines growing. Its usually the heart that is affected first.

[Heywood]

I think it's some type of fluid buildup due to drugs.  But I'm no doctor.

But if we accept its some type of visceral fat tissue that simply doesn't burn off due to insulin or other drug usage, then that's a hell of alot of fat.

[Disgusted]

I think it's some type of fluid buildup due to drugs.  But I'm no doctor.

But if we accept its some type of visceral fat tissue that simply doesn't burn off due to insulin or other drug usage, then that's a hell of alot of fat.

Actually it would have to be a Hell of a lot of fluid since fat tends to accumulate in small areas and do to it's solid form can stay stationary as opposed to fluid which would most certainly travel to other ares of the body and not just in one small pocket.

[hardkor]

I understand what you are saying but consider this. The guys from the 50's 60's 70's and maybe early 80's (not so much) ate tons of protein and fats. Guys today are eating massive amounts of carbs in the form of rice, potatoes and yams, plus the dextrose they use with the insulin.

I have seen guys with huge guts and almost no visible fat on the outside of the stomach who have not used insulin BUT these guys are eating tons of carbs. No stimulants or insulin. Even though they are taking no exogenous insulin they are still over producing insulin via their own pancreas which is the same difference.

You think these guys below are taking insulin, GH, stimulants and IGF? of course not, they are eating tons of carbs and or drinking large amounts of beer and have been for years. They will eventually become type 2 diabetics. These guys have large amounts of visceral fat and because they do not diet like bber's it is even more pronounced, but maybe not as much as you would think. 

Years ago I used to have guys carb up on insulin, but these same guys never used it in the off season and I never had anyone with a gut. Most were taking clen and ECA stack and some weren't. Bber's never had a visceral fat problem until they started to use insulin in the off season. I do agree that t he massive amounts of food certainly does not help matters, but trust me when I tell you that it takes months for this type of fat to go away and I am not so sure that it is reversable with everyone. Also consider the fact that once they have had this problem it most likely will return quicker and easier just like with muscle memory.
[/quote]

i dont agree with the...high carb diets causing big stomachs.  Yeah. alot of BBs in the 50 60 70 and 80s ate high protein and fats, but ALOT of the champs in the Aronld and Haney era ate TONS of carbs...and there were no distended guts.

And what about pro athletes in other sports such as cycling running tennis swimming and even basketball.  They are trained and taught to eat a crap load of CARBS and none of them have Visicular Protruding Diabetic Stomachs.

Carbs ONLY is not to blame....it's the Insulin with the carbs.

[Heywood]

How about starving children in third world countries with bloated stomachs?  No fat...

[spotter]

does Derek ANthony have it?

[Disgusted]

How about starving children in third world countries with bloated stomachs?  No fat...

Nutrient deficiency.

[Heywood]

Fine.  So we can both agree that when one's stomach protrudes, it may be from something other than "visceral fat."

That's a starting place.  The lack of food and nutrition is the cause.  Now, WHAT is actually taking place to produce the noticeable protrusion?

[Bodies]

It's just visceral water retention - not fat - not organ growth - just water retention - that's my 2 cents.....