Republican Presidential Debate

[Dos Equis]

is on.  You can pick it up on CNN.com. 

[The Coach]

is on.  You can pick it up on CNN.com. 

It's on CNN?  AAaaahahahahahahahahahah a!

[BayGBM]

We’re in a state of war.  We’re fighting radical Islamic fundamentalist.  Our military is stretched thin.  The military doesn’t have enough people who speak Arabic, Farsi, etc.  And the few we do have are being kicked out of the military because they happen to be gay or lesbian and willing to admit it.

During the debate, Wolf Blitzer posed this premise to all the candidates and asked them if they were willing to change don’t ask don’t tell to allow these linguists to serve.  Not one of them said yes. 

Maybe some of the conservatives here can help me understand this.  Would you really rather be dead, than serve with or get help from a gay or lesbian who speaks the necessary languages over there?  I wonder what Dick Cheney would say if he were on that debate panel.

This is the kind of question that illustrates the difference between the Dems and the GOP.

[ribonucleic]

Would you really rather be dead, than serve with or get help from a gay or lesbian who speaks the necessary languages over there?

Perhaps this will answer your question.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32075

[Dos Equis]

Watched and listened to most of the debate (online).  Some thoughts:

- Better cast of characters overall than the Democrats. 

- When looking and listening to McCain, the first word that popped in my mind was "corpse."     No way he comes out of the primary. 

- I was very impressed with Romney.  He's very likeable.  Solid positions.  I still want to hear more from him, but I could see myself voting for him.  He looks like the Republican's best candidate so far. 

- Thompson was okay.  Not impressed with him. 

- Paul was okay.  Articulate and sincere, but didn't impress me much. 

- Brownback stinks.  He should quit. 

- Gilmore has very good credentials, but is essentially irrelevant.

- Didn't like Giuliani.   

- I liked Hukabee a lot.  He gave a great answer to a set-up question.  They asked him whether he believed God created the earth in six days.  He said (if memory serves), "I'm running for president.  I'm not trying to implement an 8th grade science curriculum."  He said he believes God created us and that we didn't get here by accident.

- Hunter's son quit his job after 911, joined the Marines, has served two tours in Iraq, and is currently in Afghanistan. 

- Marked difference between Republicans and Democrats on taxes.  They all talked about cutting taxes. 

- They all said, either expressly or impliedly, that they would pardon Libby.  Said the prosecutor abused his discretion and that the prosecutor knew Richard Armitage outed Plame before they prosecuted Libby.  Giuliani said no underlying crime was committed.   

- Everyone except McCain said English should be the official language. 

- They all ran away from Bush. 

- Other than Romney and maybe Huckabee, I don't really like any of these candidates. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

Ron Paul was excellent in my opinion, I don't know of any issue I disagree with him on.  I thought his response to the "Don't ask don't tell" question was dead on.  He's so well informed,  and articulate like BeachBum said, he just amazes me.

I also liked Huckabee.

Didn't/don't like Guliani either.

[Eyeball Chambers]

We’re in a state of war.  We’re fighting radical Islamic fundamentalist.  Our military is stretched thin.  The military doesn’t have enough people who speak Arabic, Farsi, etc.  And the few we do have are being kicked out of the military because they happen to be gay or lesbian and willing to admit it.

During the debate, Wolf Blitzer posed this premise to all the candidates and asked them if they were willing to change don’t ask don’t tell to allow these linguists to serve.  Not one of them said yes. 

Maybe some of the conservatives here can help me understand this.  Would you really rather be dead, than serve with or get help from a gay or lesbian who speaks the necessary languages over there?  I wonder what Dick Cheney would say if he were on that debate panel.

This is the kind of question that illustrates the difference between the Dems and the GOP.

Why even bring up your sexual preference in the Military?

[Dos Equis]

Ron Paul was excellent in my opinion, I don't know of any issue I disagree with him on.  I thought his response to the "Don't ask don't tell" question was dead on.  He's so well informed,  and articulate like BeachBum said, he just amazes me.

I also liked Huckabee.

Didn't/don't like Guliani either.

I like Ron Paul.  I just don't think he can make it out of the primary. 

[Colossus_500]

I missed the debate last night.    I hope I can catch it later this week, if it's going to be re-run. 

[militarymuscle69]

how many of these linguists have we lost because they were gay? I doubt it is many....

[Cap]

Romney looks solid.  I like his stance on English only and immigration.

Ron Paul looks like a sad little man.  I would never vote for him.

McCain saying that Hispanic illegals have enriched this nation is a crock.  Maybe if he had some balls on this issue I would vote for him but he is alienating many Repub voters by going this route.

Giuliani seems like a good guy but does not follow Repub ideals enough to get elected.

[militarymuscle69]

from clips I heard I liked the actor guy...100% pro life, says this is our country and we should decide who gets to be here, will continue the GWOT etc..

[AE]

One of the questions was "How would you use President Bush?" and one of the idiots responded that they would put him on a lecture circuit. 

[BayGBM]

Why even bring up your sexual preference in the Military?

Straight people (in and out of the military) bring up their sexual preference every day.  You display photos of your significant other, you talk about experiences with your wife or girlfriend, you talk about who got a letter from or who you have at home waiting for you... the list is endless.  But that’s all beside the point.

The country is at war--and losing!  We need Americans in the military who can who can speak Urdu, Farsi, and Arabic, and you’re going to expel the few we do have because they are gay or lesbian? 

240 what is your take on this?

[militarymuscle69]

Straight people (in and out of the military) bring up their sexual preference every day.  You display photos of your significant other, you talk about experiences with your wife or girlfriend, you talk about who got a letter from or you have at home waiting for you... the list is endless.  But that’s all beside the point.

The country is at war--and losing!  We need Americans in the military who can who can speak Urdu, Farsi, and Arabic, and you’re going to expel the few we do have because the are gay or lesbian? 

240 what is your take on this?

I have tried to explain this before...a military units moral would suffer with OPENLY gay members. As much as we don't want to think so, there is still a majority in America that are homophobic. If you have 50% of the men in a unit that are that way, then it will create problems in the unit. I think we all are aware that there are gays currently in the military, no problem right..but when it becomes confirmed then it becomes a problem. This just isn't an issue that our conservative military is ready to take on.

You will have to show me that we are turning away hundreds of people that can speak these languages because of their sexual preferance for me to be concerned. Our linguistic schools can take any jo blow and teach them the language needed, but they are long schools (aprox. 15 months) and then until the attain a certain level of OJT they are limited to the tasks they can perform. Job shortages in the military usually take 3-5 years to be identified and corrected but we will correct our linguist problem without needing openly gay personnel. Remember though, if these people are just dying to be able to serve our country they are free to do it as long as they keep their sexuality to themselves.

[militarymuscle69]

Debate is replaying on XM 130 right now if interested, they are getting into the audience questions

[240 is Back]

240 what is your take on this?

IMO - Definitely let homosexuals serve.  Anyone who has a beef with it can go and fight alone.  Ask any soldier in the field for 5 minutes if he'd rather have 2 straight guys on his team with AR15s, or 25 gay guys on this team with AR15s, I think we all know the answer.   Beggars cannot be choosy.  You are making guys do a 4th tour without a vacation... and you're turning down a million guys who want to fight... because they like different things in the bedroom?  it's just insane.  And the fact that not one repub candidate would say yesterday that they'd let gays serve... well, they're not the ones doing a 4th tour, I'd wager.

mm69, headhunter, and other military guys... would you mind some gays serving if it meant you'd have 6 more months each year to spend on US soil with your families?

We should also consider using prisoners, illegal immigrants, and other groups in some capacity.  Put prisoners on building the mexico wall.  use illegals to build infrastructure in iraq for 2 years in exchange for citizenship.

[OzmO]

I have tried to explain this before...a military units moral would suffer with OPENLY gay members. As much as we don't want to think so, there is still a majority in America that are homophobic. If you have 50% of the men in a unit that are that way, then it will create problems in the unit. I think we all are aware that there are gays currently in the military, no problem right..but when it becomes confirmed then it becomes a problem. This just isn't an issue that our conservative military is ready to take on.

You will have to show me that we are turning away hundreds of people that can speak these languages because of their sexual preferance for me to be concerned. Our linguistic schools can take any jo blow and teach them the language needed, but they are long schools (aprox. 15 months) and then until the attain a certain level of OJT they are limited to the tasks they can perform. Job shortages in the military usually take 3-5 years to be identified and corrected but we will correct our linguist problem without needing openly gay personnel. Remember though, if these people are just dying to be able to serve our country they are free to do it as long as they keep their sexuality to themselves.

Not to open up a can of worms here......well maybe a little.....I agree with the points you made in both paragraphs. That's the current reality, but i see it as no different then the reality that existed in 1947 or whatever when Truman integrated blacks into the military (off hand i don't remember the exact year and maybe have the wrong president).  While race and sexual orientation are distinctly 2 different things the complaints by the military were very similar.   And what ended up happening?  They got over it and still maintained a cohesive fighting force.  Of course not without growing pains, but it worked out fine.

[Decker]

... Other than Romney and maybe Huckabee, I don't really like any of these candidates. 

You don't have a problem with Romney's excessive flip-flopping on the issues?

He's flipped on abortion  http://conservativesagainstromney.com/2007/05/06/romney-flip-flops-during-gop-debate/

He's flopped on the Bin Laden issue (like Bush did)  http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000605.htm

He's flipped on his view of military service  http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/05/11/romney-panders-with-religion-and-military/

He's flopped on his party allegiance http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/24/romney_gave_three_contributions_to_democrats

He's flipped on campaign finance  http://mormonsagainstromney.blogspot.com/2007/02/romney-flip-flops-on-campaign-financing.html

He's flopped on immigration policy  http://www.democrats.org/a/2007/05/latest_ad_drive.php

He's flipped on gun control  http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/05/21/romney-is-ultimate-flip-flopper-peter-fenn/

He's flopped on his "hunting background"  http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/05/21/romney-is-ultimate-flip-flopper-peter-fenn/

These are not evolving position changes like with Kerry on the $87 billion vote.

This is out and out political grandstanding showing that Romney will say anything to become president.

[militarymuscle69]

IMO - Definitely let homosexuals serve.  Anyone who has a beef with it can go and fight alone.  Ask any soldier in the field for 5 minutes if he'd rather have 2 straight guys on his team with AR15s, or 25 gay guys on this team with AR15s, I think we all know the answer.   Beggars cannot be choosy.  You are making guys do a 4th tour without a vacation... and you're turning down a million guys who want to fight... because they like different things in the bedroom?  it's just insane.  And the fact that not one repub candidate would say yesterday that they'd let gays serve... well, they're not the ones doing a 4th tour, I'd wager.

mm69, headhunter, and other military guys... would you mind some gays serving if it meant you'd have 6 more months each year to spend on US soil with your families?

We should also consider using prisoners, illegal immigrants, and other groups in some capacity.  Put prisoners on building the mexico wall.  use illegals to build infrastructure in iraq for 2 years in exchange for citizenship.

me personally no I don't have a problem, but again if you have 50% that care and 50% that don't care, the 50% that do care will bring down the rest...When I give graduation speaches I talk about the 80-20 rule...briefly 80% of the people do the work to pick up the slack of the 20% and the 20% fuck up everything the 80% work hard for....Unfortunately, as the military currently stands there is a large majority that would let gays affect the the unit effectiveness.

OzmO, race is still a major player in the military......here in one of my schools, I had a supervisor coem to me with 2 troops that had been shitbags, underage drinking, failing tests, disrespecting NCOs etc...so I had him do up the proper documentation to discharge the troops...it was an open and shut case, even went to legal to make sure all the Is were dotted and Ts crossed...took it to my CC and his first question....what color are these kids....well sir they are both black...He said sorry, can't allow it, our ratio of black to white discharges is out of whak the FY....until we kick more whites out we can't get rid of more blacks....

You want more race stories just ask...again it isn't Air Force wide but there are still alot of problems....

[OzmO]

I'm sure you have millions of them.  nothing is perfect and to think it would be is pure fantasy.   i agree AA is not perfect.  But, we are the top dog integration and all and will continue to be even with open gays.

[w8tlftr]

Straight people (in and out of the military) bring up their sexual preference every day.  You display photos of your significant other, you talk about experiences with your wife or girlfriend, you talk about who got a letter from or you have at home waiting for you... the list is endless.  But that’s all beside the point.

The country is at war--and losing!  We need Americans in the military who can who can speak Urdu, Farsi, and Arabic, and you’re going to expel the few we do have because the are gay or lesbian? 

240 what is your take on this?

Gay or straight it doesn't matter to me. The mission should always come first and the durka durka mohammed jidad shitbags will gladly kill a gay American as much as a straight one.

[headhuntersix]

My take..I hada gay soldier in Afghanistan...He came out hoping I would either send him home or make some remark that could get us in trouble. I told him point blank that he could gay it up as much as he wanted but that he was going to do his fucking job and we were not going to hold our tongues about saying fag or anything and that this was a combat invironment and suck it up. I told him that if he went super gay that we would ensure UCMJ charges were filed but if he just did his job he would be ensured that we would get him out as soon as we returened, which was the end of his enlistment. He would have stayed in the Service longer and lost his GI Bill. He went along and I had no issues with him. i don't want openly gay soldiers. I had more problems with 1 black female then i ever did with him..or any other race or orientation.

[Victor VonDoom]

Straight people (in and out of the military) bring up their sexual preference every day.  You display photos of your significant other, you talk about experiences with your wife or girlfriend, you talk about who got a letter from or you have at home waiting for you... the list is endless.  But that’s all beside the point.

The country is at war--and losing!  We need Americans in the military who can who can speak Urdu, Farsi, and Arabic, and you’re going to expel the few we do have because the are gay or lesbian? 

fool (fõõl) n.
1. One who is regarded as deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion.
3. One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe.

Fools!

[Eyeball Chambers]

Straight people (in and out of the military) bring up their sexual preference every day.  You display photos of your significant other, you talk about experiences with your wife or girlfriend, you talk about who got a letter from or you have at home waiting for you... the list is endless.  But that’s all beside the point.

I never even considered that.