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Author Topic: pre synthol arms  (Read 16110 times)
pumpster
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« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2007, 07:12:19 AM »

Dislike them but the Weiders were the biggest reason for BBs success, along with Schwarzenegger. One not bigger than the other; Schwarzenegger and the rest of the BBs of the era were exposed through Weider's promotions and then again the Weider-centric skew of Pumping Iron. Weider chose Schwarzenegger and jettisoned Oliva precisely because they already knew what they wanted and needed the right guy.

Several reasons why it hasn't been replicated: (1) already happened - the fitness explosion happened for a multitude of reasons in the 70s, could only blow up once, (2) they might not have been as motivated to elevate someone else in the 80s onwards, having already achieved huge success, (3) most or all of the guys since then are lacking something. Levrone's a dummy, Jay's a stiff, Coleman's fine but not dynamic, etc. Gunter's the only one IMO who could elevate it a bit more, but maybe not considered physically good enough, though i'm surprised he's not more well-known.

To elevate BB right now they not only have to find better personalities they also have to widen the viewership as happened in the 70s. One of the ways, something that's been neglected, is world's strongest man. Put some top guys in that and you broaden awareness far beyond the normal BB ghettos. I mentioned this to Brian, Coleman's mentor a while ago and i hope they do it while he's still able instead of more unwinnable Olympias that tarnish his rep.
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« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2007, 07:41:51 AM »

the weiders were parasites from the beginning, when joe saw a body he liked he would put his head on top of the body and say it was his. i believe he first did this with clancy ross's body. he leeched onto dave draper paying him between 150 to 200 dollars a week to work in the weider warehouses, while at the same time using drapers image to sell mags, low grade supplements, and junky gym equipment. he loosen the purse strings when arnold s came along realizing the greater rewards he could reap thanks to arnold's outgoing personality.


* joe w.jpg (71.99 KB, 502x689 - viewed 1343 times.)

* RossClarence_58.jpg (23.59 KB, 355x538 - viewed 1122 times.)
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« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2007, 07:44:25 AM »

weider as he really was won't inspire anyone, as well as not sell any mags. in the mister u w pants on.


* weider pants 51 u.jpg (23.89 KB, 343x287 - viewed 1092 times.)
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« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2007, 07:48:13 AM »

back to arms


* walter milner.jpg (25.25 KB, 380x480 - viewed 1477 times.)

* mc ttyyyu.jpg (25.5 KB, 361x535 - viewed 1401 times.)

* visst_var_det_haftigare_forr_2.jpg (27.47 KB, 350x480 - viewed 1167 times.)

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« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2007, 07:54:44 AM »

They were parasites BUT were also superior promoters to anything else in BB. That's life.

What Joe's physique was like has nothing to do with it.
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« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2007, 07:54:59 AM »

Dislike them but the Weiders were the biggest reason for BBs success, along with Schwarzenegger. One not bigger than the other; Schwarzenegger and the rest of the BBs of the era were exposed through Weider's promotions and then again the Weider-centric skew of Pumping Iron. Weider chose Schwarzenegger and jettisoned Oliva precisely because they already knew what they wanted and needed the right guy.

Several reasons why it hasn't been replicated: (1) already happened - the fitness explosion happened for a multitude of reasons in the 70s, could only blow up once, (2) they might not have been as motivated to elevate someone else in the 80s onwards, having already achieved huge success, (3) most or all of the guys since then are lacking something. Levrone's a dummy, Jay's a stiff, Coleman's fine but not dynamic, etc. Gunter's the only one IMO who could elevate it a bit more, but maybe not considered physically good enough, though i'm surprised he's not more well-known.

To elevate BB right now they not only have to find better personalities they also have to widen the viewership as happened in the 70s. One of the ways, something that's been neglected, is world's strongest man. Put some top guys in that and you broaden awareness far beyond the normal BB ghettos. I mentioned this to Brian, Coleman's mentor a while ago and i hope they do it while he's still able instead of more unwinnable Olympias that tarnish his rep.

i disagree with you here. why were guys like oliva, nubret, fox shunned?

black bbers almost had to act like slaves (haney, coleman) or gay (dickerson) to get any play form weider. arnold did whatever the fuck he wanted, including stiff the weiders on numerous occasions.

we both no very well that if nubret was given anywhere near equal treatment to arnold he would have made zane look like a truck driver.

oliva and bertil were already a sell. every single person i've ever seen exposed to these guys have been awestruck by there proportions. why did joe pay arnold's way from austria and cultivate him through the early size obsessed years and jettison oliva, who already had the whole package and then some (taper, small waist) and why settle for the mercedes (zane) when he had the lambourghini diablo (nubret) right there in the wings? it sure wasn't charisma. let's face it, zane was about as inept as cutler on this frontier.

imo, the weiders very obviously had some agendas that were more about them and their own 'ideals' than actually promoting the sport and it's personalities.

eg. tom platz was a HUGE personality after arnold. now he's selling soiled underwear and trophies Huh hell of a retirement package don't ya think? Embarrassed
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« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2007, 08:23:03 AM »

without the weiders pro bbing as we know it won't exist. but without vince k mcmahon, weider would probably be giving  a cheap mazola crown and 1000 dollars for prize money. weider only competition back in the day was only bob hoffman who treated bbing like a red headed step child and later dan lurie, who was weiders former business partner. interesting while arnold s was weiders boy lurie pushed a young lou ferrigno as arnold's rival. lurie was always interesting how his obnoxious personality could get under everyone's skin. you have to give him credit though calling out first hoffman than weider to compete in a bbing contest against him , of course both declined as lurie was an accomplished builder ref www.musclememory.com.


* lurie-1.jpg (32.46 KB, 300x703 - viewed 1139 times.)

* hoffman bob.jpg (65.13 KB, 487x796 - viewed 1121 times.)

* Weider07.jpg (13.08 KB, 226x320 - viewed 957 times.)
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« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2007, 08:29:31 AM »

without the weiders pro bbing as we know it won't exist. but without vince k mcmahon, weider would probably be giving  a cheap mazola crown and 1000 dollars for prize money. weider only competition back in the day was only bob hoffman who treated bbing like a red headed step child and later dan lurie, who was weiders former business partner. interesting while arnold s was weiders boy lurie pushed a young lou ferrigno as arnold's rival. lurie was always interesting how his obnoxious personality could get under everyone's skin. you have to give him credit though calling out first hoffman than weider to compete in a bbing contest against him , of course both declined as lurie was an accomplished builder ref www.musclememory.com.

yes, compared to hoffman, weider was good for bbing and compared to attilla the hun hitler was very moderate.

didn't know about lurie's challenge. smart move there, but backing ferrigno against arnold wasn't. he was completely outclassed in every way.
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« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2007, 08:30:58 AM »

I've seen several shots of Hoffmann doing that vacuum thing, whats up with that?
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« Reply #109 on: June 28, 2007, 08:35:00 AM »

lol, lurie's more bowlegged than columbu. still, he looks like a greek statue compared to hoffman and weider. Lips sealed

i've never been a fan of the vacuum and some people should, frankly, be locked up for doing it in public. hoffman was one of those people.
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« Reply #110 on: June 28, 2007, 08:36:39 AM »

i don't pretend to know which one was the bigger fuck up, ben or joe. i tend to think ben. he seemed completely deluded on what bbing was all about. in fact, when i look at ben i have no idea why he was involved with bbing in the 1st place. i may be wrong, but he seemed to have napoleon syndrome.


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« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2007, 08:38:30 AM »




hahaha...that's a fucking classic!

thanks Figo. did you shop them?
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« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2007, 08:49:29 AM »

couple more pics


* jg45.jpg (19.6 KB, 363x563 - viewed 1146 times.)

* LurieDan.jpg (35.31 KB, 315x423 - viewed 1123 times.)

* lou and dan happier days..jpg (68.06 KB, 587x574 - viewed 1575 times.)

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« Reply #113 on: June 28, 2007, 08:54:49 AM »

hahaha...that's a fucking classic!

thanks Figo. did you shop them?

No, BEAST, these are "originals". I'm gonna try find the one where he has full Napoleon attire on. I dont know if you know, Ben is a full-on Napoleon Bonaparte freak, he is president of some society, owns the biggest collection of Napoleon artifacts, even wrote a book.

Thats why it took so long for the IOC to give that "ok-you-can-come-and-play-with-us-but-only-when-nobody-is-watching-status". He's too busy playing dress-up. I dont wanna know what Joe does...

They're both too busy, for too long now. They've exploited enough bbers, and made enough cash.

Its true Gunther, Roland or even Rolf Moeller could have maybe done it,  filled Arnold's void.
But now, its too late. The game has evolved to true freaks which wont appeal to anyone.
Back in Arnold's day, he was the freak, and people could still handle it, but now its on another level, a comical level. Also, communication skills help, which Haney had, but S.Ray and Labrada excelled at.

Back to arms, that Pastel pic reminded me of the great physique he had.



Unbelievable arms and abs, tiny waist.
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« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2007, 09:08:14 AM »



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« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2007, 09:44:25 AM »

No, BEAST, these are "originals". I'm gonna try find the one where he has full Napoleon attire on. I dont know if you know, Ben is a full-on Napoleon Bonaparte freak, he is president of some society, owns the biggest collection of Napoleon artifacts, even wrote a book.

Thats why it took so long for the IOC to give that "ok-you-can-come-and-play-with-us-but-only-when-nobody-is-watching-status". He's too busy playing dress-up. I dont wanna know what Joe does...

They're both too busy, for too long now. They've exploited enough bbers, and made enough cash.

Its true Gunther, Roland or even Rolf Moeller could have maybe done it,  filled Arnold's void.
But now, its too late. The game has evolved to true freaks which wont appeal to anyone.
Back in Arnold's day, he was the freak, and people could still handle it, but now its on another level, a comical level. Also, communication skills help, which Haney had, but S.Ray and Labrada excelled at.

Back to arms, that Pastel pic reminded me of the great physique he had.



Unbelievable arms and abs, tiny waist.

very true, but i wonder if the physiques really have become too freaky.

arnold had about the same freak value back in the day, but the big difference was, he made himself accessable to the public. he ingratiated himself in such a way that he actually laughed with them. while gironda, ross and scott were talking about taking 400 liver tablets and 5 gallons of milk a day, arnold was saying, "fuck that, i drink beer and smoke cigars. milk is for calves and i've never seen a liver tablet."

yes, he was bullshitting the whole time, but no more than, say, larry scott who kept up the fascade, "no, i've never taking steroids. i just started drinking milk and rheo blairs and boom, my arms went from 14 to 20" Roll Eyes of course, devout christians never lie and neither did larry until he finally made a confession 20 years after he retired with "just 20mgs of dianabol per day, honest." yeah, right larry, we'll believe you again, sure why not.

why did guys like rolf and levrone have to quit bbing altogether to make movies, while arnold actually came out of retirment from bbing competition to prepare for movie roles? something askew there. i believe bbing just lost contact with the general public (where arnold had paved the way) and i believe the reason for that is because the weiders have done everything they can to eliminate personalities and individualism (arnold) and, because of the arnold snub, he has sent bbers back to the gym cult like naughty school kids. i mean, just look at these guys and how they behave, 'father of bbing', weider this and weider that, busks with other people's bodies propping a ridiculously narcisistic self portrait.

weider was never going to risk another arnold (bigger than him) even it meant costing future promotion of the sport. it's not like he needed the money. he was defrauding billions with his supplement empire.
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« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2007, 10:21:33 AM »



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« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2007, 10:25:24 AM »





hahaha, there you go.

merely with pics you've illustrated everything i've written. the napoleon thing still has me laughing.

a pic truly is worth a thousand words.

cool, Figo Cool
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« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2007, 01:33:21 PM »

You guys are interpreting things the way you like just to come to conclusions that suit your justifiable dislike of the Weiders.

-Ben has a great Napoleon collection and even received a medal from the Canadian government for it. What's wrong with a passion for something? No problem there.

-As far as Nubret instead of Zane, Nubret was running his own contests that sometimes rivaled Weider, which is probably why he unaccountably didn't appear after '75 when he would've beaten Columbu or Zane, just as Oliva or Fox should've not to mention Robinson.

-Add to that the fact that Nubret did some porns in France, quite acceptable over there.

-AND the fact he was black - why let a black guy win if there's a choice, when most of your readership's white and would prefer someone they could better relate to? Nothing to do with personality, in the Weider's eyes it was likely just a pragmatic decision based on general readership demographics and resultant magazine and supplement sales. Keeping in mind that back then the exposure was through the mags that relied only the visual: charisma really was irrelevant for magazine covers, articles and supplement ads.

And those are only the obvious ones. There's no point in trying to argue this, i'm giving solid reasons without anyone here knowing the behind the scenes.
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« Reply #119 on: June 29, 2007, 09:19:46 AM »

arms of the day


* 2mhx9g0.jpg (54.84 KB, 638x893 - viewed 1138 times.)

* Matt_Mendenhall_-_Arm.jpg (24.07 KB, 444x535 - viewed 1631 times.)

* Marvin8.jpg (46.38 KB, 500x746 - viewed 1111 times.)

* old dd rk.jpg (27.13 KB, 340x576 - viewed 926 times.)
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« Reply #120 on: June 29, 2007, 10:56:57 AM »

In those last shots you can really tell the era of each from the hair. Mullets anyone? Kiss
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« Reply #121 on: June 29, 2007, 01:26:49 PM »

You know, the Weiders, love them, hate them, they've done a lot.

Back to arms:

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« Reply #122 on: July 01, 2007, 07:37:42 AM »

and more


* _Mentzer_Brothers.jpg (49.22 KB, 625x725 - viewed 762 times.)

* photolg2.jpg (32.51 KB, 384x477 - viewed 867 times.)

* tom muscelimo.jpg (39.7 KB, 566x663 - viewed 692 times.)

* Arms_and_Shoulder_Above_the_Rest_Front_Cover.JPG (84.7 KB, 550x845 - viewed 684 times.)
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« Reply #123 on: July 01, 2007, 08:24:33 AM »

Frankly these Guys look better than the Insulin Monsters. Its getting a bit gross to a extent.
No site Oil, no clen, No Ai's, precious little HGh,. We'll see how long these Big boys today live.
No guarantees in life for anyone, but it's gone pretty far.
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« Reply #124 on: July 01, 2007, 10:32:54 AM »

Wow Shocked

Wayne had great arms, great shape.

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