Author Topic: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?  (Read 2777 times)

SWOLETRAIN

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Founds this on another board... Makes sense, anybody  dial it in like this? opinions?

Heres the question:
I am competiting this sat. and having a bit of a problem. i'm holding a lot of extra water under everywhere and can't get rid of it. my sodiums has been cut, using the sauna. and nothings helping to get the striations in my shoulders and chest to come out. and tips for that?

Answer:
I do my water loss w/o drugs. The principle is very simple:

The body functions in feedback loops, including water homeostasis, that work like the thermostats and the AC (or heater) in your house, car, etc.

If you set the AC to 70 (its setpoint), the temp. much reach some threshold (say 72) before it kicks in. It will cool until it reaches some value below its setpoint, say 68. There is overshoot in the system. There must be some off-set or error to turn the AC on (temp reaches 72) and it will cool to provide somewhat of a temperature buffer (68? = 2? below the setpoint of 70?).

Now imagine how your thermostat, if it were "smart" like the body's, would react if you turned a heater on near the thermometer, but on the other side of the room from the AC. The heater would blast the thermometer (sensor) and the AC would be going full blast to cool the room. If you cut the heater off, the "smart" thermostat would not just cool the room to 68? - it would cool it to some level below that, b/c it remembers that there's a "threat" of heat AND the thermometer is simply is still hot even though the rest (most) of the room is at or below 70?. (It senses a hotter room than is actually the case!)

Water homeostasis is a bit more complicated, but you can use this principle to trick the body into drying out - losing water to a level of dehydration below its normal setpoint. Here's how:

-Turn on diuresis in the body by drinking LOTS of water, flooding it with fluid.
-The body will respond homeostatically by removing this water from the system. It senses that there is too much water b/c electrolytes (especially sodium) are diluted in the blood. When the water is lost, there will necessarily be some sodium loss.
-KEEP drinking water and the body will continue to lose water to try to keep up, but will lose some electrolytes as well. In fact, outpace the body's ability to lose water by INCREASING water intake gradually over several days and it will not quite be able to keep up. You'll be peeing like a racehorse by this point (but even get somewhat drier). (The body (hypothalamus) "senses" you have more water than you do, b/c electrolytes are so diluted.)
-ABRUPTLY stop drinking water and watch as the body continues removing it and "smartly" overshoots previous level of hydration, leaving you dry as a bone.

Additions to this:
-Use every means of diuretic (non-pharmacological) at your disposal, increasing dose as you increase water, turning on diuresis even more: vitamin C (3-5 g), caffeine, herbal diuretics, and finally for the last day of drinking water, a no-carb, purely protein diet. AFTER YOU STOP DRINKING WATER, CONTINUE with these natural diuretics, driving diuresis and keeping yourself dry.
-Take in minimal sodium as your are finishing your water intake and thereafter.
-Supplement with Potassium to prevent cramping.

Here's a sample:
Mon, Tue: No carbs - glycogen depletion workouts
Tues: carb-up, some sodium (none added to food), 7L water
Wed: as above, 8 L water, Add in non-pharm diuretics
Thurs: as above, 9L water, Up diuretics
Fri: no-carbs (more on this later), only protein diet, minimal sodium, 10L of water, finished by 6PM, up diuretics even more.
Sat (show): no carbs (more later), only protein diet, .5 - 1.0 L water, diuretics throughout day.

Hope this helps!
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troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 03:09:50 PM »
I'd be interested for his explaination as to how "Supplementing with Potassium to prevent cramping" will do that in the absence of sodium, and high water intake.
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StillTippin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 04:14:03 PM »
I'd be interested for his explaination as to how "Supplementing with Potassium to prevent cramping" will do that in the absence of sodium, and high water intake.
I take it that you don't agree with this seemingly common practice of taking potassium to prevent cramping.  I've done it myself.  I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why this does or dosen't work as well as any personal "tricks" you have for dropping water trop.

chris_mason

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 05:16:37 PM »
So long as you did not drink water to the point of being toxic I think this sounds reasonable. 
w

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 05:33:07 PM »
Drink half a bottle of alcohol and all the water will be forced out..  ;D

troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 05:42:04 PM »
I take it that you don't agree with this seemingly common practice of taking potassium to prevent cramping.  I've done it myself.  I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why this does or dosen't work as well as any personal "tricks" you have for dropping water trop.

Cramping is often misunderstood I think. 
Cramping isn't necessarily because of a loss of total electrolytes, but because of an imbalance in electrolytes. 

There are more than just sodium and potassium when it comes to electrolytes.  Magnesium and Calcium also play important roles in muscular contraction.

When you sodium depleted, and become hyponatremic, which this plan will have you become, you have already created an imbalance of electrolytes.  If sodium is low, your comparative level of potassium is then already high.  To load potassium on top of this wil only create a greater inbalance. 

Dropping sodium too much is a problem in and of itself, as you will eventually become hyponatremic, and if you're not careful, you'll go into redistributive hyponatremia, which will cause all sorts of troubles if you're trying to look hard on stage. 

People don't think about calcium's role in muscular contraction either.  Calcium is actually probably most important. 

During a muscular contraction, calcium rushes into the muscle cell, and binds to something called Troponin (cool name...)
Troponin then moves off of Tropomyosin, allowing the myosin and actin cross bridges to interact, creating a muscular contraction. 

This is one reason I'm not a fan of distilled water.  When loading on distilled water, you're depleting your body of all electrolytes, calcium being an important one. 
With spring water, you don't have to worry about this. 

Luckily for most people, potassium supplements are dosed incredibly low.  It will take roughly 10 potassium tabs to create the level of potassium in one large potato.  So, supplementing with potassium generally doesn't do a whole lot except make the person feel better.  At worst, however, it will exacerbate the cramping problem.
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SWOLETRAIN

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 09:04:53 PM »
damn good to know
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Disgusted

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 09:15:44 PM »
As sign of low potassium is muscle cramping. As sign of too high postassium is muscle cramping. You play a dangerous game when using diuretics and using potassium.

Also, I am not convinced that using distilled water leaches out minerals from the body. I am also not convinced that there is even enough minerals in spring water to matter as far as getting anything beneficial although I do prefer sping water.

It was my understanding that the minerals in srping water are inorganic so the body can not absorb them effiently for them to be of benefit. I do not know and I have read debates on both, but not enough to form my own opinion about it yet.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2007, 09:42:19 PM »
Troponin and Disgusted, do you think it's dangerous to ingest sodium (like shit load heavily) or drink pedialyte when really dehydrated (seen many recommend pedialyte to rehydrate after a show) due to diuretics like this Doctor says? I'm inclined to believe him due to him working at the Arnold etc.

Quote
After the Weigh In, Just Drink Water!
By Dr. David Ryan, DC
For www.EliteFTS.com

Shocking headlines

Several times a year while covering lifting events, I have to deal with individuals who have pushed themselves too far. They have dehydrated themselves to the point of lightheadedness and even passing out. The athlete will start to feel lightheaded and may even stumble and fall or worse—get crushed under a heavy lift. The situation can become critical quickly if the proper steps are not taken immediately.

The effects of dehydration are more devastating then most people realize. The use of “over and/or under the counter” supplementation/pharmacological diuretics are widespread in the world of powerlifting/bodybuilding/wrestling/mixed martial arts, and their effects are the most devastating to those particular athletes trying to make weight. In some cases, diuretics have lead to death. Recently, the interest in the UFC has lead to similar problems being noted in those sports.

The problem is the effects of salt and the crossing of the blood brain barrier. You will actually change the pressure inside of your brain when you dehydrate to extreme levels. In short, it makes your brain swell, and that can kill you. Most of the time, you will die of other problems associated with neurological brain dysfunction such as a heart attack or stroke.

The basic competition scenario

You are drinking two gallons of water per day, and you taper quickly so that your kidneys continue to remove as much water from your body as possible. In some cases, you use various supplements or drugs to force the kidneys to lose even more water. The common problem is losing too much water. Then you might feel lightheaded, but instead of drinking water, you reach for the Pedialyte. Once you have ingested a salt solution, your body is still geared to quickly remove the water from the solution, and you are left with the high concentration of salt in your body. This will set off a chemical reaction in your body, and you are left with fluid problems that can be fatal. The high salt concentration will literally pull fluid off of the brain, and that is very dangerous.

Don’t make the mistake of taking in salt solutions. Drinking Gatorade or Pedialyte can actually make your situation worse. Your body has minerals in the bloodstream called electrolytes. The two main types are potassium and sodium, which occur in a 2:1 ratio, respectively. When you drink these solutions containing salt, the body can go into shock because of the ingestion of high levels of electrolytes. Several problems can occur as a direct result of consuming drinks that contain high levels of salt, and these are compounded by the use of other stimulants such as caffeine or ephedrine. Your electrolytes are even more unstable at ages past thirty and/or if you are ill or had recent trauma.

How Pedialyte or Gatorade can make you very ill

Drinking electrolyte solutions when you have signaled to your kidneys to get rid of as much water as possible is simple. You drink the solution and more and more of the salt stays behind as you continue to remove fluids from your body. Eventually, the salt content is so high that it can become imbalanced (potassium to sodium), or the high concentration of salt will suck fluid out of your brain or heart or some other organ that you might need to live.

Dehydration alone is dangerous. You don’t have to just take in salt solutions or electrolyte solutions to be in danger. Not taking in fluids at all will result in dehydration, and that is very dangerous as well.

Two terms you must learn are hypernatremia and hyponatremia. Hypernatremia is due to too little water, too much salt, or a combination thereof. Hyponatremia is due to too much water, not enough salt, or a combination thereof. The point is simple. You have a balance. Go too high or too low, and you die.

The following was taken from an article in the New York Times:

“Dr. Lewis G. Maharam, the medical director for the New York City Marathon and marathons in San Diego, Phoenix, Nashville and Virginia Beach, said this: ‘There are no reported cases of dehydration causing death in the history of world running. But there are plenty of cases of people dying of hyponatremia.’ Although Gatorade officials say that the salt in the drink prevents the over-hydrating of cells, Maharam says that Gatorade, in this case, is no better than water. Last year, one percent of New York's 35,000 runners were hospitalized with hyponatremia.”

How to spot someone who’s dehydrated

Dehydration (also available from WEB MD) can occur when the body loses too much fluid. Symptoms of mild dehydration include:

    * increased thirst
    * dry mouth and sticky saliva
    * reduced urine output with dark yellow urine

Symptoms of moderate dehydration include:

    * extreme thirst
    * dry appearance inside the mouth, and the eyes don’t tear
    * decreased urination or half the number of urinations in 24 hours (usually three or fewer urinations)
    * urine is dark amber or brown
    * lightheadedness that is relieved by lying down
    * irritability or restlessness
    * arms or legs that feel cool to the touch
    * rapid heartbeat

Symptoms of severe dehydration (even if only one of them is present) include:

    * altered behavior such as severe anxiety, confusion, or not being able to stay awake
    * faintness that isn’t relieved by lying down, or lightheadedness that continues after standing for two minutes
    * inability to stand or walk
    * rapid breathing
    * weak, rapid pulse
    * cold, clammy skin or hot, dry skin
    * little or no urination
    * loss of consciousness

*Be aware that diarrhea over several days can lead to dehydration. Uncontrolled vomiting leads to dehydration. Begin by drinking 8 oz of water at the top of the hour and Pedialyte or Gatorade on the half hour. See a physician if the diarrhea continues longer than 48 hours or immediately if there is any fever associated with a rash.

What to do

    * If someone faints: Call an ambulance (911) or defer to medical staff. No matter what the athlete tells you, if they regain consciousness, it’s time for a ride in the squad. If you don’t send them, then you are taking on a huge risk. Consider that most people don’t die immediately. It usually takes a day or two.
    * Do not give them any fluids if they’re passed out. They will choke and likely die on the fluids.
    * If they are conscious, only give them water. Ice on the back of their neck is a good idea too. Lie the person down on his or her back with the legs and feet elevated. The person should be constantly monitored for several hours by a physician for changes in condition.
    * Continue to monitor for (A) airway obstructions, (B) breathing, and (C) circulation.
    * If they stop any of the ABC’s, begin CPR immediately.
    * If you use an electrolyte drink, dilute it in half with water. Drink at room temperature.  Only drink 8 oz per half hour.

At the Arnold Fitness Weekend, Brian Griffin, MD, and Joe Donovan, MD, have been overseeing professional athletes for many years. They closely attend to each professional physique athlete specifically. They do a particularly great job with monitoring bodybuilders with fluid problems. To date, their main concern with the bodybuilders is dehydration.

Effects of dehydration on breathing

The extreme loss of fluid affects your body’s ability to absorb oxygen. You will keep breathing, but you just can’t get enough air. The bigger you are and the more dehydrated you are, the worse this problem becomes. Another major problem which comes from dehydration is nerve misconduction. Nerve impulses will either fire too much or not at all.  This can lead to a fatal situation. Each athlete is introduced to our medical staff and informed about what we expect from the competitor. Their safety is our first and only concern.

 

Intravenous versus ingestion (needle in your arm verses drinking)

Both take approximately the same amount of time to deliver fluids. Sure, the intravenous is a little quicker, but you have a hole in your arm and how clean is it backstage? Given all the effects, the choice is simple. Drink the water, and if you do drink any salt solution, dilute it 50/50 with plain water.

SmartWater

There is a product called SmartWater, which we use at the Arnold and Olympia for the athletes when necessary. It has no sodium in it and has lots of electrolytes to help you recover. The next time you are at the health food store, grab a bottle and remember to drink it after your next competition. I challenge you to see how much better you feel after two days.

 

Brian F. Griffin, MD, FACEP, DABAPM, DAAPM recommends the following guidelines as well.

“Hydration is really simple. If you’re not urinating fairly clear urine, you are dehydrated. If your eyes sting when a drop of sweat gets in your eyes, you are losing too many electrolytes BECAUSE you have lost too much water. Your body must now shed the electrolytes (that keep you alive). They are getting too concentrated because of the loss of the water in your body's effort to cool itself. Your electrolyte balance is now seriously disrupted, and even with the shedding of electrolytes, you will be at risk. This is the critical period. Rehydrate with an electrolyte-based but diluted drink or bad things will happen. There is no value in the destruction of your muscle, heart muscle included. The muscle that becomes damaged begins to disproportionably break down and release chemicals, some of which are dangerous (i.e. potassium).”

 

What to do if you’re cramping uncontrollably

    * Call 911, and start drinking room temperature water immediately.

Main steps to preventing cramping or death

    * Weigh yourself the morning of the competition and two days before you start to cut water.
    * You should never lose more than 15 percent of your body weight in one day. If you do, then drink it back, or you are risking dangerous side effects, including death.
    * Always drink back the amount of weight that you lose. Remember that one gallon of water equals eight pounds.

So if you started the day at 178 lbs and now weigh 174 lbs, that is four pounds or a half gallon of water that you need back. Now let’s say you started at 184 lbs and now weigh 174 lbs. That is ten pounds so over a gallon of water needs replaced. Consider that 184 – 174 = 10 pounds, and that is very close to your 15 percent danger zone.

Be aware of your danger zone and also how much water you need to replace. If you are taking water loss supplements of any kind, you need to track your weight gain closely to maintain the fluid levels in your body.

A good article to read about the subject is written by Steven L Stephanides, MD. He is a staff physician at the Department of Emergency Medicine at Eisenhower Medical Center. To read the article, visit http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic263.htm - target 1.

Additional reading

Petit L, et al., (2006) Controlled hypernatremia. Ann Fr Anesth Reanim; Unite de reanimation chirurgicale et traumatologique, departement d'anesthesie-reanimation, CHU Pellegrin, 1, place Amelie-Raba-Leon, 33076 Bordeaux cedex, France.

Credits

Article by David Ryan, DC, Co-Chairman/Medical Director, Arnold Fitness Weekend,

Arnold Fitness Weekend Medical Team and Olympia Weekend. Special review and content by Brian F. Griffin, MD, FACEP, DABAPM, DAAPM, Co-Chairman, Arnold Fitness Weekend Medical Team, Executive Director of all expo athletic events. Additional review by Brian Hiestand, MD, FACE, Arnold Fitness Weekend, Ohio State University Emergency Department Physician; Joe Donovan, MD, Director of Physique Athletes, Co-Chairman, Arnold Fitness Weekend; Randy Yee, DO, Orthopedic Surgeon, Co-Chairman, Olympia Weekend; Loren Leidheiser, DO, FACEP, Director of St. Ann’s and Mt. Carmel Hospital’s Emergency Departments; Rick Cavender, MD, FACEP, Certified Ringside Physician; and Don Norris, MD, FACEP, Ohio State University, Emergency Department Physician.

Elite Fitness Systems strives to be a recognized leader in the strength training industry by providing the highest quality strength training products and services while providing the highest level of customer service in the industry. For the best training equipment, information, and accessories, visit us at www.EliteFTS.com.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/just_drink_water.htm


Van_Bilderass

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2007, 09:45:01 PM »
BTW Disgusted, saw where you said Dennis James looked like he didn't drink enough water for the last show. You were right, Milos on his board says:

Quote
From last photos until prejudging he was suppose to get just little dryer and instead - opposite happened???
Like I said - I took this whole prep as something that would bring the best and biggest DJ - EVER...and Saturday morning he was BIGGEST, FULLEST he has ever been and sufficiently dry...
Just a little more water out - with 5 hours to go - pumping up...etc - would do the job...
One hour before the show I was still beleiving he will indeed FREAK everyone out...but he somehow lost it...

It puzzles me - really...as he DID NOT EAT anything for more than 14 hours...or DRINK almost 24 hours....


troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2007, 05:20:15 AM »
BTW Disgusted, saw where you said Dennis James looked like he didn't drink enough water for the last show. You were right, Milos on his board says:



Glycogen wynthesis requires glucose, sodium, and water. 
If you supply the glucose and the sodium, but don't include the water, the body must find water to synthesis the glucose into glycogen. 
In this case, the body will attempt to pull subcutaneous water with the sodium and glucose to form glycogen.  But, if there isn't enough water, I feel that you can have excess sodium and glucose in the bloodstream.  This sodium will then attract the water back out from the intracellular space.  When the sodium and water content of the blood is high, the water can leak back out into the extracellular space, making you look more watery...even if you don't drink water. 

This is my feeling on the subject.  I've seen it happen too many times where people really try to push the fullness, but don't include enough water.  They end up looking more watery.  As soon as water is re-introduced into the system, the unstored glucose is taken with the sodium and ingested water up into the muscles, actually making them look drier. 

Sometimes, the best thing you can do when you can't figure out why you're not dry, is include some soda (or other fluid) with some carbs, and you can watch the person dry out again. 

I don't have studies for this, this is just from personal experience, and my own understanding of human physiology.  So, others may have differing views.
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toolarge4u

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 06:36:50 AM »
Cramping is often misunderstood I think. 
Cramping isn't necessarily because of a loss of total electrolytes, but because of an imbalance in electrolytes. 

There are more than just sodium and potassium when it comes to electrolytes.  Magnesium and Calcium also play important roles in muscular contraction.

When you sodium depleted, and become hyponatremic, which this plan will have you become, you have already created an imbalance of electrolytes.  If sodium is low, your comparative level of potassium is then already high.  To load potassium on top of this wil only create a greater inbalance. 

Dropping sodium too much is a problem in and of itself, as you will eventually become hyponatremic, and if you're not careful, you'll go into redistributive hyponatremia, which will cause all sorts of troubles if you're trying to look hard on stage. 

People don't think about calcium's role in muscular contraction either.  Calcium is actually probably most important. 

During a muscular contraction, calcium rushes into the muscle cell, and binds to something called Troponin (cool name...)
Troponin then moves off of Tropomyosin, allowing the myosin and actin cross bridges to interact, creating a muscular contraction. 

This is one reason I'm not a fan of distilled water.  When loading on distilled water, you're depleting your body of all electrolytes, calcium being an important one. 
With spring water, you don't have to worry about this. 

Luckily for most people, potassium supplements are dosed incredibly low.  It will take roughly 10 potassium tabs to create the level of potassium in one large potato.  So, supplementing with potassium generally doesn't do a whole lot except make the person feel better.  At worst, however, it will exacerbate the cramping problem.

good stuff trop, the other mistake people make with potassium is if they are using a potassium sparring diuretic like diazide or aldactone. They start cramping and thinking its potassium when it could be from already too much. Now they create a bigger problem making there potassium go higher and higher. If they get dehydrated or electrolyte imbalance and dont know it they could be in big trouble, esp if they get sick and throw up a few times. Seen it happen first hand, took lots of dextrose and insulin to pull the potassium back into the cell at the hosiptal.  The levels in the blood should be normal range of 3.5-5.5, this case was starting to reach 7+ and kindeys started to go renal as well. Scary crap.

toolarge4u

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2007, 06:41:03 AM »
Glycogen wynthesis requires glucose, sodium, and water. 
If you supply the glucose and the sodium, but don't include the water, the body must find water to synthesis the glucose into glycogen. 
In this case, the body will attempt to pull subcutaneous water with the sodium and glucose to form glycogen.  But, if there isn't enough water, I feel that you can have excess sodium and glucose in the bloodstream.  This sodium will then attract the water back out from the intracellular space.  When the sodium and water content of the blood is high, the water can leak back out into the extracellular space, making you look more watery...even if you don't drink water. 

This is my feeling on the subject.  I've seen it happen too many times where people really try to push the fullness, but don't include enough water.  They end up looking more watery.  As soon as water is re-introduced into the system, the unstored glucose is taken with the sodium and ingested water up into the muscles, actually making them look drier. 

Sometimes, the best thing you can do when you can't figure out why you're not dry, is include some soda (or other fluid) with some carbs, and you can watch the person dry out again. 

I don't have studies for this, this is just from personal experience, and my own understanding of human physiology.  So, others may have differing views.

this sounds exactly like what happens to me at showtime...although i used aldactone a few times to and i honestly think its pointless and makes me flat and smooth. So how much water do you have your people drink during the last week, is there a starting point or does it depend how dry they already are?

troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2007, 08:01:50 AM »
this sounds exactly like what happens to me at showtime...although i used aldactone a few times to and i honestly think its pointless and makes me flat and smooth. So how much water do you have your people drink during the last week, is there a starting point or does it depend how dry they already are?

I have people drink a lot of water all prep, and don't taper at all until the day before the show.  Even then, they're often around 2 gallons a day the day before a show. 
I don't believe much in dropping water. 
I'll cut it before the show at some point, and then add fluids back in as we feel are needed at the very end.
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StillTippin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2007, 08:25:26 AM »
Troponin, you need to write a book man.  Next purchase on my list is your DVD, and I would put the book shortly after that.

SWOLETRAIN

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2007, 10:08:25 AM »
wow that is top notch info trop, much appreciated dude. I didnt know how much mitty-gritty detail goes in to the drying out process. Seems to make much more sense though.
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troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2007, 02:25:35 PM »
Troponin, you need to write a book man.  Next purchase on my list is your DVD, and I would put the book shortly after that.

Thank you. 
I am working on a book, two actually.  It is a slow process, as I don't have a ton of free time.  But I do want to put something out there.  I looked everywhere for a book on 'bodybuilding' dieting when I was starting out.  I'm sure there are people more qualified, but when I was starting, I would have taken ANYTING. 
I must have read everything by Chris Aceto 20 times. lol
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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2007, 02:35:12 PM »
Thank you. 
I am working on a book, two actually.  It is a slow process, as I don't have a ton of free time.  But I do want to put something out there.  I looked everywhere for a book on 'bodybuilding' dieting when I was starting out.  I'm sure there are people more qualified, but when I was starting, I would have taken ANYTING. 
I must have read everything by Chris Aceto 20 times. lol

what's the best book to learn the basics ( cause honnestly I tried to read your post and I don't understand jack shit  ;D)

GroinkTropin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2007, 02:41:36 PM »
I really have to wonder what I was thinking when I wanted to be a pro bber, why the fuck would you want to go through all this for a fucking trophy? Theres no money and someone please try and pass this all off as not being unhealthy. You look digusting, cannot function properly women don't want you and you make no money. Hmm sounds like a great investment of time and money to me  ::)

troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2007, 03:08:37 PM »
I really have to wonder what I was thinking when I wanted to be a pro bber, why the fuck would you want to go through all this for a fucking trophy? Theres no money and someone please try and pass this all off as not being unhealthy. You look digusting, cannot function properly women don't want you and you make no money. Hmm sounds like a great investment of time and money to me  ::)

What do you invest your time and money into now? 
www.trueprotein.com
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troponin

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 03:11:28 PM »
what's the best book to learn the basics ( cause honnestly I tried to read your post and I don't understand jack shit  ;D)

I always tell people to get a basic human physiology textbook, preferably college level.  You can pick and choose what you want to learn, and you get unbiased information.  Just about anything written, especially if it is written for bodybuilding, will have the authors bias on it.  And that can tarnish the quality of the information IMO. 

If you find something in the textbook you have trouble understanding, or want more info on, you can google or even use wikipedia for the specific words you want more info on.
That is the best way IMO.

Chris Aceto has some good books...but they will be biased to his personal way of doing things. 
Dr. Hatfield gets a bit too complicated.....I think Parillo goes a little out there too, but both of those guys have stuff out there with good info. 
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Stavios

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Re: Found this article on water loss/final week? Anybody ever try this?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2007, 06:16:30 PM »
I always tell people to get a basic human physiology textbook, preferably college level.  You can pick and choose what you want to learn, and you get unbiased information.  Just about anything written, especially if it is written for bodybuilding, will have the authors bias on it.  And that can tarnish the quality of the information IMO. 

If you find something in the textbook you have trouble understanding, or want more info on, you can google or even use wikipedia for the specific words you want more info on.
That is the best way IMO.

Chris Aceto has some good books...but they will be biased to his personal way of doing things. 
Dr. Hatfield gets a bit too complicated.....I think Parillo goes a little out there too, but both of those guys have stuff out there with good info. 

cool I'll just do that !
you have to start somewhere !  :)