Author Topic: Kris Dim had a heart attack.  (Read 86209 times)

MAXX

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2007, 11:38:46 AM »
Why is drug free BBing always out of the question? If the IFBB really wanted to be drug free, they could, which would probably attract a more mainstream audience. Even as a longtime lifter, I have great difficulty embracing the Professional "sport" of BBing.
if they did ban steroids the IFBB bb'ers would just go to another organisation so its really no point in it...

and nattys shows ae not interesting for most bb fans..

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2007, 11:47:56 AM »
Kris best of luck to you, I hope you have a speedy recovery!!!!

The Enigma

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #152 on: June 09, 2007, 12:17:14 PM »
To pinpoint it on steroids is assuming a bit too much at this point.  Could the steroids have caused his cardiac muscle to possibly grow too large to the point that his right ventricle ended up pumping out blood too forcefully, which would have then caused his aortic valve to malfunction (a'la rupture)? 


Go ask Arnold about his aortic pig valve.  ::)

The Enigma

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2007, 12:27:06 PM »

and nattys shows ae not interesting for most bb fans..


Not as interesting.......but much healthier.

But when Zane competed, they used Gear, but NOT to the insane levels of today.

Insulin, AAS, directics, HGH, Clen, Synthol, etc etc etc

COMPLETE MADNESS!!

Iraclese

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2007, 12:28:59 PM »
Who cares if it was from this or that. Man some of the disrespect
that goes on here.  Someone almost died!!!!! >:(

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2007, 12:39:37 PM »
Not as interesting.......but much healthier.

But when Zane competed, they used Gear, but NOT to the insane levels of today.

Insulin, AAS, directics, HGH, Clen, Synthol, etc etc etc

COMPLETE MADNESS!!

Agreed, the doses that were used back then would have been considered almost HRT now.

The Enigma

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2007, 12:48:54 PM »
Agreed, the doses that were used back then would have been considered almost HRT now.

Joe, the IFBB should ban every substance except Androgel.   ;D

dorkeroo

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #157 on: June 09, 2007, 12:49:39 PM »
some are religious and some are not, just respect peoples beliefs


Best post of yours since I can remember.
Best wishes to Kris and his.

The True Adonis

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #158 on: June 09, 2007, 01:09:16 PM »
Best post of yours since I can remember.
Best wishes to Kris and his.
You can have the belief all you want, don`t expect me to respect it if it is glaringly false and without any kind of shred of evidence.

Why should I or anyone?

Matt C

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #159 on: June 09, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »
You can have the belief all you want, don`t expect me to respect it if it is glaringly false and without any kind of shred of evidence.

Why should I or anyone?

I feel the same way.  I am also a dick sometimes for how I say things.  I just get frustrated since even being reasonable and polite doesn't get the facts across to some people so I lean to venting towards their beliefs.  Still, it is the least effective way of communicating and you are even worse than me for that.  ;D  Really, it is a surefire way to turn someone away from your point of view.  I do it all the time but know I'm not coming across effectively.  I really have to stop that.  :)
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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #160 on: June 09, 2007, 02:06:26 PM »
Not as interesting.......but much healthier.

But when Zane competed, they used Gear, but NOT to the insane levels of today.

Insulin, AAS, directics, HGH, Clen, Synthol, etc etc etc

COMPLETE MADNESS!!
How the hell would you enforce bodybuilding where there were limits to how much gear you would be allowed to use? Impossible! Think for a minute.

Drugs are here to stay, deal with it.

sgt. d

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #161 on: June 09, 2007, 02:07:05 PM »
True Adonis have you been to any funerals of loved ones?

OneMoreRep

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #162 on: June 09, 2007, 02:26:54 PM »
Who cares if it was from this or that. Man some of the disrespect
that goes on here.  Someone almost died!!!!! >:(

Knowing the true cause does matter.  Some conditions can and will get worse over time, other conditions can become exacerbated with excessive steroid use, other conditions are resolved quite well with just surgery. 

What makes no difference here is the disrespect, for as it will not change the outcome of Dim's condition.  Many in this industry have had close calls with death, so what?  The very fact that these guys can be objective about it and say that he should lay off the steroids isn't disrespect, it's the best form of advice they can offer him now.

Matt C

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #163 on: June 09, 2007, 02:55:36 PM »
Every post about someone's death or health problems in bodybuilding always relates back to drugs in some way here on getbig.  That is better than always dodging the issue like on mayhem.  Since we are going to talk about it anyway, we may as well just put the standard in place to be respectful and polite in our discussions.  Other than that, I feel the discussion is appropriate.

Check out these related threads about the deaths of Eduardo Kawak and Anthony D'Arezzo, respectively.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=73660.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=85133.0

Every thread like this on here leads to this and it is damn important that it does.  It is not something competitive bodybuilders should close their eyes to as doing so is extremely dangerous.
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dorkeroo

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #164 on: June 09, 2007, 02:59:20 PM »
You can have the belief all you want, don`t expect me to respect it if it is glaringly false and without any kind of shred of evidence.

Why should I or anyone?

Maybe you should read another of Bluto's posts.
He said you can respect the person (as a human being) without necessarily respecting the religion.
Anyways, whatever you like, I hope your molecular biology reading is going well.

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #165 on: June 09, 2007, 03:02:09 PM »
Maybe you should read another of Bluto's posts.
He said you can respect the person (as a human being) without respecting the religion.
Anyways, whatever you like, I hope your molecular biology reading is going well.

Most of the religious nuts can't handle the objective posts here regarding the cause/effect relationship between the drugs and the medical incident. They disrespect the people discussing the rational side behind this thing, so, TA's so called "disrespect" is nothing compared to these nutcases like Luke Wood and "Iraclese". From a rational viewpoint, these idiots wants their own feelings to control what other people should think and feel. Fuck them.  :D

dorkeroo

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #166 on: June 09, 2007, 03:07:18 PM »
Most of the religious nuts can't handle the objective posts here regarding the cause/effect relationship between the drugs and the medical incident. They disrespect the people discussing the rational side behind this thing, so, TA's so called "disrespect" is nothing compared to these nutcases like Luke Wood and "Iraclese".   :D

I understand what you mean, and I guess my original point was that I thought Bluto really said something pretty fairly. I don't feel like looking for the post, I am lazy today I guess.

He said something about respecting people and if someone wants to say "Pray for Kris Dim", what the hell should that mean to anyone who doesn't believe? I mean seriously is the phrase enough of a threat that something has to be said at all?

It sure won't hurt Kris and as a matter of fact, as Adonis is so fond of looking for "papers", it has been demonstrated that in some cases, cases of illness have been improved through prayer. Now that may be completely chemical and if we all got together we could probably come up with some reasoning regarding it and medicalize it. Irregardless, it has been seen to help and if he doesn't believe, well, who cares?

Personally I could care less what others believe in as long as they aren't hurting others while doing it.

gh15

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #167 on: June 09, 2007, 03:11:41 PM »
To me it looked like Don Long was at least 90% of his previous size the last time he was on stage. Still on a lot of juice. Very big.

And why do you say painkillers may have contributed? To me it makes more sense that hardcore stimulants were involved.

ill answer this in the mattc thread since this is sppose to be a  thread about get well kim and not about how he got there
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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #168 on: June 09, 2007, 03:38:20 PM »
I understand what you mean, and I guess my original point was that I thought Bluto really said something pretty fairly. I don't feel like looking for the post, I am lazy today I guess.

He said something about respecting people and if someone wants to say "Pray for Kris Dim", what the hell should that mean to anyone who doesn't believe? I mean seriously is the phrase enough of a threat that something has to be said at all?

It sure won't hurt Kris and as a matter of fact, as Adonis is so fond of looking for "papers", it has been demonstrated that in some cases, cases of illness have been improved through prayer. Now that may be completely chemical and if we all got together we could probably come up with some reasoning regarding it and medicalize it. Irregardless, it has been seen to help and if he doesn't believe, well, who cares?

Personally I could care less what others believe in as long as they aren't hurting others while doing it.

Good post.

The conclusion is simple: Pluralism is a fact, and as long as the religious nuts can't accept that, the rationalists will horass them. Seen in the opposite direction: As long as the rationalists can't accept other peoples religious beliefs that crashes with their rational thoughts, the religious nuts will talk shit about the rationalists and continue with their ways.

Anyways, in the end we're all responsible for our own choices, as Kris Dim now painfully discovers.. I wish him the best :-\

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #169 on: June 09, 2007, 03:43:08 PM »


Amazing lats for someone his size.

But were they worth dying for?

jonsande

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #170 on: June 09, 2007, 04:08:38 PM »

Man, thats too bad, my prayers go out to him and his family.

MATT.....someone upstairs WAS looking out for him, it makes alot of sense, a warning if you will.........sometimes it take an unfortunate situation like this to wake someone up. Sorry dude, but your edumacated logical brain is on the fritz. Keep your beliefs to yourself if you don't want responses like this!!

See, this is interesting.  You tell people to keep their beliefs to themselves, but yet two sentences before you assert your belief that 'someone upstairs was looking out for him.  I guess technically your brain is the one on the fritz since you don't realize the huge error in your reasoning. 

RadOncDoc

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #171 on: June 09, 2007, 04:14:01 PM »
With all due respect to the many opinions stated, there is no telling what could have caused the rupture of Dim's aortic valve.  To pinpoint it on steroids is assuming a bit too much at this point.  Could the steroids have caused his cardiac muscle to possibly grow too large to the point that his right ventricle ended up pumping out blood too forcefully, which would have then caused his aortic valve to malfunction (a'la rupture)?  Maybe, but moreover this type of accidents occur more often due to blunt trauma via automobile accidents, surgical mishaps and sometimes even congenital heart defects.  I think that before we all assume that steroids was the cause, we wait and see what actually might have caused this in Dim's particular case. 

Also, let us understand that a heart attack and a stroke are by far two very different things.  Whereas a stroke deals only with the brain and occurs when there is an obstruction of blood to the brain which then leads to a lack of tissue oxygenation, a heart attack has nothing to do with the brain and only deals with coronary arteries mainly, where due to an obstruction caused by either a thrombus (clot) or even cholesterol build up, the coronary arteries aren't able to provide the surrounding heart muscle with that much needed oxygen-rich blood, causing tissue ischemia, which is what causes the pain associated with a heart attack.  Although both deal with the lack of blood reaching the respectable organs or tissues, one has nothing to do with the other necessarily.  The only time when a heart attack can precede a stroke is when there is the case of an embolic stroke.  With an embolic stroke originating at the heart, what you have is a clot that might have caused an obstruction at the coronary arteries, which could have lead to a heart attack "MI" and once it becomes dislodged (The clot) can then travel to the brain and cause a subsequent stroke to occur by furthermore causing more obstruction of blood to certain areas of the brain.

Now, there has not been any mention of a clot in Dim's scenario, so for now, all these talks of both occuring are at most speculation.  Also, the only way that I personally see a rupture valve causing a heart attack or even stroke, is if the ruptured valve did not allow the right ventricle to pump blood out through the aorta which would have then subsequently caused pulmonary edema and then lead to left and right heart failure if untreated.  So, only the lack of a large amount of blood pumping out through the aorta is one way in which the brain could have suffered from a stroke and the heart from a myocardial infarction, but that would have taken a few hours..

Dr. Goatboy, a few thoughts if you will..

Can he suffer from post-op complications? Absolutely, they happen more often than not....

Should he forget about bodybuilding?  Yes.



1. The left ventricle (not the right) pumps blood out through the aorta.

2. As I said in a previous post, "valvular rupture" can mean a lot of things, especially when it is a layperson using the term. From what I've read in the posts here, it sounds like Dim may have developed acute valvular insufficiency which could result from true valve destruction/rupture (say from bacteria growing on the valve itself--which, by the way, is also possible here since Dim injects, and injection drug use is a risk factor for acute bacterial endocarditis) or from infarction of the muscles that normally maintain the integrity of the valve (M.I.s CAN can lead to acute valve malfunction due to papillary muscle rupture). You mention that hypertropy or dilatation of the heart can also cause valvular insufficiency; this is also true, although this is usually a chronic process.

3. Dim is likely being cared for in an ICU, and yes, there are many potential post-op complications--some related to the heart (arrythmias, cardiogenic shock, reinfarction, etc.) and others unrelated to the heart (pulmonary embolism, pneumonia, wound infection, etc.)

4. Stroke is a potential complication of cardiac surgery itself. The risk of stroke post-cardiac surgery is in the 4-5% range from studies I have seen.

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2007, 04:19:09 PM »
1. The left ventricle (not the right) pumps blood out through the aorta.

2. As I said in a previous post, "valvular rupture" can mean a lot of things, especially when it is a layperson using the term. From what I've read in the posts here, it sounds like Dim may have developed acute valvular insufficiency which could result from true valve destruction/rupture (say from bacteria growing on the valve itself--which, by the way, is also possible here since Dim injects, and injection drug use is a risk factor for acute bacterial endocarditis) or from infarction of the muscles that normally maintain the integrity of the valve (M.I.s CAN can lead to acute valve malfunction due to papillary muscle rupture). You mention that hypertropy or dilatation of the heart can also cause valvular insufficiency; this is also true, although this is usually a chronic process.

3. Dim is likely being cared for in an ICU, and yes, there are many potential post-op complications--some related to the heart (arrythmias, cardiogenic shock, reinfarction, etc.) and others unrelated to the heart (pulmonary embolism, pneumonia, wound infection, etc.)

4. Stroke is a potential complication of cardiac surgery itself. The risk of stroke post-cardiac surgery is in the 4-5% range from studies I have seen.

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #173 on: June 09, 2007, 04:23:21 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me what a piece of shit adonis is.........

The Master

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Re: Kris Dim had a heart attack.
« Reply #174 on: June 09, 2007, 04:26:50 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me what a piece of shit adonis is.........

I don't think he's a piece of shit at all, because he does not mean any harm (although it might seem that way).
He's simply an ultra rationalistic guy that chooses to not give a shit about social norms when they conflict his beliefs and his desire to share them.
I do think he would get along a bit better with people if he displayed a bit more "human traits" though, but this is a messagboard, and I'm sure he's a bit more tactful in delivering his message in real life.  ;D