Do you think people that believe in God are "weak-minded?"

[Dos Equis]

Yep, it's always easier to "go with the crowd", or have "more" choices to pick from.

So true.  I'm sure you've talked to your kids (like I have with mine) about how important it is to maintain your convictions despite peer pressure.  And peer pressure doesn't end in school.  There is a constant pressure in society to fit in. 

[Colossus_500]

So true.  I'm sure you've talked to your kids (like I have with mine) about how important it is to maintain your convictions despite peer pressure.  And peer pressure doesn't end in school.  There is a constant pressure in society to fit in. 

Indeed!  Spot on, Beach! 

[OzmO]

I believe it goes both ways guys.  It's hard to lump everyone in one category when so many different types pf people subscribe to many different beliefs.

[Colossus_500]

I believe it goes both ways guys.  It's hard to lump everyone in one category when so many different types pf people subscribe to many different beliefs.

So, basically, you're saying that we're all fallable, right?  Hence we need God's forgiveness and mercy to be back at the place with Him where Adam and Eve once were.  Correct?

[OzmO]

So, basically, you're saying that we're all fallable, right?  Hence we need God's forgiveness and mercy to be back at the place with Him where Adam and Eve once were.  Correct?

No.   .   We are fallible but we do not need to be forgiven for something he created us with. 

What did we do there in the Garden of Eden?   We gained knowledge.  If gaining knowledge is a sin then the God depicted in the Bible does want us to think for ourselves but instead be obedient brain washed followers.  But yet we ate from the tree in direct violation of his orders, got the knowledge of good and evil and God's says ok we'll keep it this way.  It was his choice to leave it this way.  Not mine.

[Colossus_500]

No.   .   We are fallible but we do not need to be forgiven for something he created us with. 

What did we do there in the Garden of Eden?   We gained knowledge.  If gaining knowledge is a sin then the God depicted in the Bible does want us to think for ourselves but instead be obedient brain washed followers.  But yet we ate from the tree in direct violation of his orders, got the knowledge of good and evil and God's says ok we'll keep it this way.  It was his choice to leave it this way.  Not mine.

This might be one of the most distorted views I've heard in quite some time.  Wow.   

[OzmO]

This might be one of the most distorted views I've heard in quite some time.  Wow.   

Quite possibly, i was just shooting off the top of my head... but here it is in a nut shell.

GOD made us this way.  GOD made us imperfect.  He chose to do that.  We were imperfect before we ate of the tree of knowledge.  so for him to expect perfection before him is unrealistic.

It's a monster Catch 22

[columbusdude82]

Religion requires a suspension of reason and deference of ancient texts interpreted by old men (never women) whose education pretty much revolved around these ancient texts. The more religious a person is, the less reasonable they are.

See my discussion on the Falwell thread with Colossus_500.

[Dos Equis]

Religion requires a suspension of reason and deference of ancient texts interpreted by old men (never women) whose education pretty much revolved around these ancient texts. The more religious a person is, the less reasonable they are.

See my discussion on the Falwell thread with Colossus_500.

I disagree columbus.  Try reading the book of Proverbs.  Lots of reason there.  I think there is a great deal of logic and reason that flow throughout God's requirements for our daily living. 

[columbusdude82]

The whole Bible is full of wonderful bits of great literature, poetry, and wisdom, same as the Illiad, the Koran, the great works of the ancient Greeks and Romans...

However, a good deal of the Bible is demonstrably false, or morally repugnant, or absurd.

Like the other ancient texts, the Bible can be read and appreciated and enjoyed without being taken literally as a guide to our morality and "daily living."

[Colossus_500]

Religion requires a suspension of reason and deference of ancient texts interpreted by old men (never women) whose education pretty much revolved around these ancient texts. The more religious a person is, the less reasonable they are.

See my discussion on the Falwell thread with Colossus_500.

You keep making the same mistake as you are in the Falwell thread.  You think Religion = God.  Religion <> God (<> means does not equal)

[OzmO]

You keep making the same mistake as you are in the Falwell thread.  You think Religion = God.  Religion <> God (<> means does not equal)

Exactly!


Religion does NOT equal GOD and is probably in some ways hindered people's personal relationship with God. 

(also religion has done many things to bring people closer to God.)

[columbusdude82]

Of course religion is not God. Religion exists, we see it all around us. God doesn't. An existing thing and a non-existing thing cannot be the same thing.

That distinction is trivial. Neither one of you succeeded in countering my specific points. You just kept changing the question.

[Lord Humungous]

believers are far from weak minded, but I happen to be an exception 

[Colossus_500]

believers are far from weak minded, but I happen to be an exception 

HEY, BRO!!!!!!!!! 

Good to see you back.  Hope all is going well.  I've kept you in my prayers whenever I thought about you and your family.

[Dos Equis]

The whole Bible is full of wonderful bits of great literature, poetry, and wisdom, same as the Illiad, the Koran, the great works of the ancient Greeks and Romans...

However, a good deal of the Bible is demonstrably false, or morally repugnant, or absurd.

Like the other ancient texts, the Bible can be read and appreciated and enjoyed without being taken literally as a guide to our morality and "daily living."

On what basis do you conclude that "a good deal of the Bible is demonstrably false, or morally repugnant, or absurd"? 

[Necrosis]

for me, i believe that there is a higher power, and Jesues, etc.  however, i don't believe that you need to go to church to speak with god.  after all they say come to the house of god to speak with god (sometimes thru a priest) but at home when you pray you arent in the house of god.  To me, you are your own house of god.  I don't believe the dogmas fo religion, where you cant eat meat on fridays, or you can only eat the meat from certain animals and parts of animal as in Hebrews.  I have found that each and every religion has it's good points and bad points.  So for me, being spiritual is more believig that there is something higher, but not restricting it to the perceptions of man

i pretty sure jesus said to call no man "father", that you cant both serve him and G-d.

chruch is not a thing endorsed by jesus, god is found within not without.

[columbusdude82]

On what basis do you conclude that "a good deal of the Bible is demonstrably false, or morally repugnant, or absurd"? 

Here are some examples to illustrate these points.

Morally repugnant: how about the books of Joshua and Judges? The "Chosen people" came out of the desert, were commanded by their God to kill all the inhabitants of the promised land, and keep "for themselves" only those young women who had not yet known a man. Those books are one massive genocide after another. And how about a God that tells Abraham to sacrifice his own son, only to stop him at the last minute and say "Gotcha, I was just messin with your head."

Absurd: How about the deranged, obsessive preoccupation with sex and the genitalia? How about the Levite priest in Gibeah in the book of Judges? (That story is eerily similar to that of Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, except in this one, it ends with the priest cutting up his abused 'concubine' into 12 pieces and sending her to "all the shores of Israel.")

Demonstrably false: the easiest example, how about the creation myth in Genesis?

[spotter]

Why or why not?

"No More Than People Who Don't"

[Necrosis]

"No More Than People Who Don't"

are you the great spotter ive heard so much about?

[spotter]

are you the great spotter ive heard so much about?

I am the one and only spotter, except I don't exist.!!! I am just a rumor that derek anthony started!!!

[Dos Equis]

Here are some examples to illustrate these points.

Morally repugnant: how about the books of Joshua and Judges? The "Chosen people" came out of the desert, were commanded by their God to kill all the inhabitants of the promised land, and keep "for themselves" only those young women who had not yet known a man. Those books are one massive genocide after another. And how about a God that tells Abraham to sacrifice his own son, only to stop him at the last minute and say "Gotcha, I was just messin with your head."

Absurd: How about the deranged, obsessive preoccupation with sex and the genitalia? How about the Levite priest in Gibeah in the book of Judges? (That story is eerily similar to that of Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, except in this one, it ends with the priest cutting up his abused 'concubine' into 12 pieces and sending her to "all the shores of Israel.")

Demonstrably false: the easiest example, how about the creation myth in Genesis?

How about the books of Psalms and Proverbs?  Or the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, James, etc.?  Lots of good stuff there.