Disaster after following the TA principles.

[Matt C]

I won't get into it in detail, but I am 15 or 20 pounds less than I was at my max and in the same condition.  Not fatter, but not much leaner, if at all.

I wasn't intentionally following them, but I was subconsciously following them.  For instance, I would calorie restrict due to being busy and so on and while I would previously catch myself and force myself to eat, I would let it slide thinking doing so would actually get me leaner (albeit smaller, but leaner).

It's my fault for being an idiot.  And now I will be EATING again and be back to where I was by the end of the summer.

From 04-27-2005:

http://www.musclemayhem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27403&page=5&pp=20

I was a piglet.

But you know what.

I gained alot of muscle in a quick amount of time.

I reccomend becoming a piglet at least once to see what happens. I started at 135 lbs

Good advice!

[Bluto]

blind leading the blind

[Matt C]

blind leading the blind

I hate to say that, but yep.  I knew better and it's my own stupid fault.  Yeah, TA knows all the secrets despite the fact that 99% of all anecdotal and scientific evidence points to the opposite.    BUT NOPE - TA IS RIGHT!  THEY ARE ALL WRONG.  Like a man in a straitjacket proclaiming he is the only sane person in the world.  Uh - NO.  Some conventions that have been around forever ARE tried, tested, and true.  If it works for virtually everyone in the industry, chances are it will work for anyone!  I knew better...I have no one to blame but myself.

[Camel Jockey]

Bet you TA doesn't even follow his own principles.

[Bast000]

you're delusional Matt.  You lost 15lbs and you think you lost muscle.  You have self-image issues.   How do you expect to get leaner without losing weight?

[Matt C]

Bet you TA doesn't even follow his own principles.

That's why I feel like shit about it.  I think he was just fucking around because he likes to do that.  Ultimately it's my fault though.

you're delusional Matt.  You lost 15lbs and you think you lost muscle.  You have self-image issues.   How do you expect to get leaner without losing weight?

Then what did I lose?  I'm certainly no leaner than I used to be.  Yes, there is a way to lose fat and get leaner while losing weight, but TA's approach is not it.

[The Squadfather]

you're delusional Matt.  You lost 15lbs and you think you lost muscle.  You have self-image issues.   How do you expect to get leaner without losing weight?

i agree here, if he lost 15 pounds probably only a few was muscle just like when you gain weight quick not a whole lot of it is muscle.

[The Coach]

i agree here, if he lost 15 pounds probably only a few was muscle just like when you gain weight quick not a whole lot of it is muscle.

He said he looked the same only at a lighter weight.........how do you figure?

[The Squadfather]

He said he looked the same only at a lighter weight.........how do you figure?

that tells me that he probably lost some fat and water weight, if his muscles looked the same size and he lost weight it stands to reason that he lost bodyfat and water.

[Matt C]

I just look like a downsized version of myself...I think 15 or more pounds should result in looking a little leaner than I am should it have actually been done properly.

Question: if TA is right, why does virtually everyone in the industry do it differently?

[The Squadfather]

I just look like a downsized version of myself...I think 15 or more pounds should result in looking a little leaner than I am should it have actually been done properly.

Question: if TA is right, why does virtually everyone in the industry do it differently?

drugs have a lot to do with keeping lean mass while dieting.

[Bast000]

That's why I feel like shit about it.  I think he was just fucking around because he likes to do that.  Ultimately it's my fault though.

Then what did I lose?  I'm certainly no leaner than I used to be.  Yes, there is a way to lose fat and get leaner while losing weight, but TA's approach is not it.

You just quit dieting after you lose 10-15lbs which isn't much weight at all, because you're afraid you're getting small.  I've gone up 6lbs in a day, in water weight alone, without eating more than the day before.  It's clear you are insecure.  You always want to get leaner but then quit dieting early, because you're paranoid of muscle loss.

You just sound like a complete idiot talking about dieting.

[Hedgehog]

you're delusional Matt.  You lost 15lbs and you think you lost muscle.  You have self-image issues.   How do you expect to get leaner without losing weight?

You go ahead and try beer-only for three weeks. Abeles thinks it's ok.

So why would you not?

-Hedge

[Camel Jockey]

That's why I feel like shit about it.  I think he was just fucking around because he likes to do that.  Ultimately it's my fault though.

cardboard contains calories and so does vodka. Accoring to TA and his principles, you'd be able to eat and drink just cardboard and vodka and still retain mass. This should raise a red flag to anyone with half a brain.

TA and his followers who have claimed great results on the principles still probably ate sufficient amounts of proteins and there for retained most if not all their mass.

[Matt C]

You just quit dieting after you lose 10-15lbs which isn't much weight at all, because you're afraid you're getting small.  I've gone up 6lbs in a day, in water weight alone, without eating more than the day before.  It's clear you are insecure.  You always want to get leaner but then quit dieting early, because you're paranoid of muscle loss.

You just sound like a complete idiot talking about dieting.

Read what Hedge and Camel Jockey said.

You're right that I'm concerned about losing size.  Not to annoy you with semantics, but I don't exactly classify as "insecure" by any standard psychological criteria.  Muscle loss is a concern of mine though.

From around 200, I felt I should have been shredded at around 165.  I am 180 now and don't think I am close to being 165 and shredded.  From what I can tell, I am as fat as ever.

[Bast000]

You go ahead and try beer-only for three weeks. Abeles thinks it's ok.

So why would you not?

-Hedge

he said you could get leaner doing that, he didn't say you'd preserve all of your muscle or that it's optimal.   

[Bast000]

Read what Hedge and Camel Jockey said.

Maybe you're right about my being concerned for losing size.  Not to annoy you with semantics, but I don't exactly classify as "insecure" by any standard psychological criteria.  Muscle loss is a concern of mine though.

From around 200, I felt I should have been shredded at around 165.  I am 180 now and don't think I am close to being 165 and shredded.  From what I can tell, I am as fat as ever.

How many calories a day would you say you were averaging at?  Do you even know?

[Camel Jockey]

You just quit dieting after you lose 10-15lbs which isn't much weight at all, because you're afraid you're getting small.  I've gone up 6lbs in a day, in water weight alone, without eating more than the day before.  It's clear you are insecure.  You always want to get leaner but then quit dieting early, because you're paranoid of muscle loss.

You just sound like a complete idiot talking about dieting.

It's easy to tell when you've lost weight and even easier to distinguish whether that weight is fat or muscle. If he's losing muscle then it would be a smart choice on his part to stop.

Matt should follow a reduce calorie, high protein diet. That's the way it's been done forever and it's also the correct way.

[Matt C]

he said you could get leaner doing that, he didn't say you'd preserve all of your muscle or that it's optimal.   

Here:

in the older pic, adonis claimed he was approaching a 20 inch arm.  the newer pic looks to be 15 1/2 - 16 at best.  tell me you didnt lose an ounce of muscle...

I didn`t lose an Ounce!

Not an Ounce!

[Bast000]

even easier to distinguish whether that weight is fat or muscle.

How do you tell?  On a caloric deficit, your strength is lower and your muscle are less full because your muscles are holding less glycogen and water.   

15lbs of 200lbs where Matt started is only 7.5%, which I'm sure most was mostly water.

So how do you tell exactly?

[Hedgehog]

he said you could get leaner doing that, he didn't say you'd preserve all of your muscle or that it's optimal.   

Well, he said a lot of things:

It works fine in energy as a calorie will ALWAYS be a calorie no matter what.

Most Dragsters are Alcohol powered.

I didn`t realize you were so ignorant Hedgehog and that everything had to be layed out for you.  I guess I made the mistake of assuming you were smarter than your average 7th grader.  You should have warned me.

if a calorie is just a calorie ,how about a only '' beer'' diet

That works just fine.

You wouldn`t, but you could survive on it.
I don`t recommend it at all.

-Hedge

[danielson]

Bast and TA follow the TA principles, we will see in October if its a good diet for bodybuilding or not. If one of them wins, who are we to argue?

[Matt C]

How do you tell?  On a caloric deficit, your strength is lower and your muscle are less full because your muscles are holding less glycogen and water.   

15lbs of 200lbs where Matt started is only 7.5%, which I'm sure most was mostly water.

So how do you tell exactly?

My genetics are such where I lose mass of any kind very quickly, including muscle.  I just feel I look like a smaller version of myself but with no added definition.  I admit I can't tell exactly.

I followed the TA principles basically perfectly well.

[Camel Jockey]

If an all alcohol diet is not recommended, then doesn't that seem like a direct contradiction to the principles?

Bast, I've been dieting and my delts look slightly rounder and fuller. Now I know I haven't gained mass on a restricted diet, yet my muscles look the same in terms of size and are actually more detailed. That's how I know I haven't lost anything. If Matt feels like he's lost a sufficient amount of size, then he has every right to be concerned.

[danielson]

Matt if you have any questions regarding training, just PM me I just started training champions and no, I will never charge anyone a dime.