Author Topic: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory  (Read 7266 times)

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 04:17:35 PM »
I think it can apply to both religious and anti-religious thought.   You have paranoid extremists on both sides.  But one thing I've learned is tradition can trump most anything.  People get comfortable with certain beliefs and practices and don't like to challenge them.   

Bum I said your statement was more applicable to religious thought (aka superstition) than it was to 21st century science.

I said nothing about anti-religious thought

science is not anti-religious (not saying you suggested that but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to imply).


Cavalier22

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2007, 06:52:36 PM »
i dont believe that poll
Valhalla awaits.

The Enigma

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2007, 05:47:42 AM »
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:17 a.m. EDT
Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory


If I'm not mistaken, these are the same wacko's who elected the BIGGEST presidential failure in US history.

And your point is?
                                                                                                                           


Camel Jockey

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2007, 07:05:12 AM »
If I'm not mistaken, these are the same wacko's who elected the BIGGEST presidential failure in US history.

And your point is?
                                                                                                                           



hahaha, exactly.


Old_Rooster

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2007, 08:32:48 AM »
man oh man, the devil sure has control of democrats does he not?

I guess I should pray for every democrats soul's, they are so lost.  For once I was blind but now I see.
Dems, go to church, find peace within yourself.  Must be awful to be a democrat and live in such confusion.
I truly feel very sorry for all democrats, I love them as my brothers but they are so lost.
Benjamin Pearson-Pedo

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2007, 12:56:26 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, these are the same wacko's who elected the BIGGEST presidential failure in US history.

And your point is?
                                                                                                         

That the majority of those polled reject the evolution theory. 

Also, those who don't believe in God make up a tiny minority in this country.  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17879317/site/newsweek/

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2007, 03:13:17 PM »
That the majority of those polled reject the evolution theory. 

Also, those who don't believe in God make up a tiny minority in this country.  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17879317/site/newsweek/

At one time in history I'm sure the majority of the people on the planet thought the world was flat but today we just laugh at stupid they were.

The Catholic church imprisoned Galileo for suggesting that the Earth was in motion around the Sun and their reasoning....."The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures", and the converse as to the Sun's not revolving around the Earth.

Sheesh, all you have to do is read the bible.  God explains it all right there:

Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and Chronicles 16:30 state that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." Psalm 104:5 says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "the sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2007, 05:41:01 PM »
Here is another one from 2005.  Pretty consistent:

Poll: Majority Reject Evolution
51 Percent Believe God Created Humans

(CBS) Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.

These views are similar to what they were in November 2004 shortly after the presidential election.

VIEWS ON EVOLUTION/CREATIONISM

Now
God created humans in present form
 51%
Humans evolved, God guided the process
 30%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process
 15%

Nov. 2004
God created humans in present form
 55%
Humans evolved, God guided the process
 27%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process
 13%

This question on the origin of human beings, asked both this month and in November 2004, offered the public three alternatives: 1. Human beings evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years, and God did not directly guide this process; 2. Human beings evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years, but God guided this process; or 3. God created human beings in their present form.

The results were not much different between the answers to that question and those given when a specific timeline was included in the final alternative: God created human beings in their present form within the last 10,000 years.

Americans most likely to believe in only evolution are liberals (36 percent), those who rarely or never attend religious services (25 percent), and those with a college degree or higher (24 percent).

White evangelicals (77 percent), weekly churchgoers (74 percent) and conservatives (64 percent), are mostly likely to say God created humans in their present form. 

. . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

Camel Jockey

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2007, 05:42:11 PM »
Fuck polls.

Smarter scientists are right.  8)

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2007, 08:08:22 AM »
Here is another one from 2005.  Pretty consistent:

Poll: Majority Reject Evolution
51 Percent Believe God Created Humans

(CBS) Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.

These views are similar to what they were in November 2004 shortly after the presidential election.

VIEWS ON EVOLUTION/CREATIONISM

Now
God created humans in present form
 51%
Humans evolved, God guided the process
 30%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process
 15%

Nov. 2004
God created humans in present form
 55%
Humans evolved, God guided the process
 27%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process
 13%

This question on the origin of human beings, asked both this month and in November 2004, offered the public three alternatives: 1. Human beings evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years, and God did not directly guide this process; 2. Human beings evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years, but God guided this process; or 3. God created human beings in their present form.

The results were not much different between the answers to that question and those given when a specific timeline was included in the final alternative: God created human beings in their present form within the last 10,000 years.

Americans most likely to believe in only evolution are liberals (36 percent), those who rarely or never attend religious services (25 percent), and those with a college degree or higher (24 percent).

White evangelicals (77 percent), weekly churchgoers (74 percent) and conservatives (64 percent), are mostly likely to say God created humans in their present form. 

. . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

Bum,

I'm sure if they did a similar poll in India they would find a majority of people believe that Brahma (or Vishnu) was the creator of the universe(and maybe like in the US, those with more education would be less likely to hold such a belief or perhaps more likely to view it as a metaphor rather than a factual reality).

The same is probably true of Allah in a muslim country.   If you go to a predominantly Buddhist country you might find that the majority believe that all forms are and continue to be created out of emptyness and are inherently void in and of themself (interestingly this is most in line with modern quantum theory). 

Regarding christians and their peculiar book of stories I think Jonathon Swift had the right idea when he wrote:

      "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"

   


beatmaster

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2007, 08:23:24 AM »


68%.......... where was this survey done.......... in a church!

i also don't believe that poll.

68% are wrong!!!


............. yeah sure the earth is not older than 6000 years...  ::)
are you delusional?

Camel Jockey

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2007, 11:39:53 AM »
man oh man, the devil sure has control of democrats does he not?

I guess I should pray for every democrats soul's, they are so lost.  For once I was blind but now I see.
Dems, go to church, find peace within yourself.  Must be awful to be a democrat and live in such confusion.
I truly feel very sorry for all democrats, I love them as my brothers but they are so lost.

Shut the fuck up already.  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2007, 01:10:42 PM »
Here is one from 2000:

Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in God. A Gallup Organization survey for CNN and USA Today last December found much the same thing: Nearly nine in 10—86 percent—said they believed in God, while another 8 percent said they believe in some form of "Universal spirit or higher power."

What's more, nearly eight in 10 adults—78 percent—say they've always been believers, and another 6 percent say they hadn't believed but now do.

. . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2007, 02:38:33 PM »
Bum,

Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?

For some reason I have serious doubts about most of these polls.

As of last summer ~ 43% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11  (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/06/iraq.poll/index.html)

According to a Harris poll conducted by telephone between July 5-11, 2006, 50% of American adults said they believe weapons of mass destruction (WMD) existed in Iraq before the U.S. invaded and toppled Saddam Hussein's regime

Here the rub - In October 2004 Harris Interactive found that only 38 percent of Americans believed the weapons existed. By February 2005, the percentage had dropped even further - to 36.

The latest poll - indicating that the mood has shifted and half of American adults believe Saddam possessed WMDs - surprised the polling firm (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200607/NAT20060725a.html)

Here's more - A Zogbypoll of various branches of the military (in late 2005 or early 2006 I think) revealed that  85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.” (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075)


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2007, 07:06:06 PM »
Bum,

Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?


The point is that you and your ilk are a small minority in this country and your claim that people who believe in God are "stupid" or have a mental illness is just plain silly.  The U.S. has the greatest number of religious groups than any other country in the world.  You are out of step with mainstream America:

"Most Americans adhere to Christianity. According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (discussed below), 80% of the U.S. is Christian and 15% do not adhere to a religion. Other religions comprise 5% of the U.S. population. According to the CIA World Factbook, the U.S. is 78% Christian and 10% no religion, while other religions comprise 12% of the U.S. population."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States 

That said, we have a big tent in this country and you every right to believe in nothing.  It's one of the things that makes our country so great.   

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2007, 10:59:58 AM »
The point is that you and your ilk are a small minority in this country and your claim that people who believe in God are "stupid" or have a mental illness is just plain silly.  The U.S. has the greatest number of religious groups than any other country in the world.  You are out of step with mainstream America:

"Most Americans adhere to Christianity. According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (discussed below), 80% of the U.S. is Christian and 15% do not adhere to a religion. Other religions comprise 5% of the U.S. population. According to the CIA World Factbook, the U.S. is 78% Christian and 10% no religion, while other religions comprise 12% of the U.S. population."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States 

That said, we have a big tent in this country and you every right to believe in nothing.  It's one of the things that makes our country so great.   

vexations of a frustrated Jesus Freak.

Who's my ilk?  People with an education?  People who haven't had their capacity for critical thought blinded by religious dogma?   That's fine with me and I couldn't give a rat's ass if that's out of line with mainstream America (so  you say - I have my doubts). It does however put me in the same catetgory as ~ 95% of the scientific community.  (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm)

BTW  Bum - don't put words in my mouth.  To the best of my recollection I've never written that people who simply believe in God are stupid.  I do think that some of the beliefs of fundamentlist extremes (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, and others)  are akin to mental illness but I do'nt believe I have ever said this about a general belief in God.  For example, I do think that Christians who believe that the earth is 10,000 years old and/or man appeared in his present form on earth about 6,0000 years are stupid (or keeping themselves intentionally ignorant)

Bum, here's a link to the poll on Gallup's site:  http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27847

I'm not going to post the entire thing but here are some of the salient points:

It might seem contradictory to believe that humans were created in their present form at one time within the past 10,000 years and at the same time believe that humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. But, based on an analysis of the two side-by-side questions asked this month about evolution and creationism, it appears that a substantial number of Americans hold these conflicting views.

The majority of these responses are clearly religious in nature. It is fascinating to note that some Americans simply justified their objection to evolution by statements of general faith and belief. Although the New Testament does not include many explicit references to the origin of humans in the words of Jesus, 19% of Americans state that they do not believe in evolution because they believe in Jesus Christ. Other religious justifications focus on statements of belief in God, general faith concerns, references to the Bible, and the statement that "I'm a Christian."

------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I couldn't care less if someone wants to believe in God or believe that they were created by their God.  This is quite common in ALL religions.  The only problem I have is when they start making absurd claims such as the earth in only 10,000 years old or homosapien appeared on the planet in it's present form about 6000 years ago.  These claims are ludicrous and can easily be proven false.  Even more hilarious, when asked how these figures we determined we given an explanation such as the following:

The following timeline by Theodore Pederson appeared in The Christian News, March 26, 2001, page 18.

How old is the earth?
If we go back 500 years, we come to the time of Martin Luther (born in 1483), and Columbus, who “sailed the ocean blue in 1492.”
If we go back 1000 years, we come to the time of Leif Ericson, Christian explorer, who preached Christ to pagans. (World Book, 1983, vol.6, page 270.)
If we go back 2000 years, we come to the birth of Jesus Christ. Our calendar is dated from His birth.
If we go back 3000 years, we come to the time of David and Solomon; they ruled Israel about 1000 BC.
If we go back 4000 years, we come to the time of Abraham (2000 BC), ancestor of Arabs and Jews.
If we go back 5000 years, we come to the time of Enoch, who “walked with God 300 years … and God took him [into Heaven].”
If we go back 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).
The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)
We would add that although many people don't accept this timeline of history, they have difficulty deciding exactly when they would start to disagree with it.

Was Jesus Christ real? The Bible says he was, and no serious historian doubts it.
Was King David real? The Bible says he was. Again, there is no reason to doubt it.
Was Abraham real? The Bible says he was. There seems no reason to doubt this either.
Was Enoch real? The Bible says he was. There is no reason to think the Bible has suddenly lapsed into fiction when the other people were genuine historical figures.
Was Adam real? Well, Enoch was a son of Cain, who was a son of Adam. So if Enoch was real there is no reason to think that his father Cain wasn't, or that his grandfather Adam wasn't. They were only two generations away.
And Adam was the first man, created in the first week of the earth's existence.

He lived about 6000 years ago.

------------------------------------------------------

Gee how scientific   And these are the same genius's who don't believe in carbon dating.  If Christians really want to "prove" their belief  regarding the age of earth or man (especially to non-Christians) they're going to have to do a lot better than that.

Then again, belief in Creationism is negatively correlated with education (i.e the less education you have the more likely you are to believe in Creationism) so I guess it shouldn't be any suprise.

Frankly, I'm not even sure you understand the theory of evolution when you make comments like this:

No.  A bird evolving into another species of bird still leaves you with a bird.  A bird evolving into a dog is another story.   

You're either being intentionally disingenous (I know how you hate that) or unintentionally stupid.

As I've pointed out previously, a poll conducted last year concluded that amost half of the respondents (all presumably adults with normal brain function) believed that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attacks on 9-11.

In spite of their belief they are 100% wrong and given the fact that this is common knowledge they are also 100% stupid.

Just because a poll shows that people believe something doesn't lend one ounce of proof or credibility to that which they claim to believe. 





Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2007, 11:39:54 AM »
vexations of a frustrated Jesus Freak.

Who's my ilk?  People with an education?  People who haven't had their capacity for critical thought blinded by religious dogma?   That's fine with me and I couldn't give a rat's ass if that's out of line with mainstream America (so  you say - I have my doubts). It does however put me in the same catetgory as ~ 95% of the scientific community.  (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm)

BTW  Bum - don't put words in my mouth.  To the best of my recollection I've never written that people who simply believe in God are stupid.  I do think that some of the beliefs of fundamentlist extremes (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, and others)  are akin to mental illness but I do'nt believe I have ever said this about a general belief in God.  For example, I do think that Christians who believe that the earth is 10,000 years old and/or man appeared in his present form on earth about 6,0000 years are stupid (or keeping themselves intentionally ignorant)



lol.  The Queen is protesting too much.  Here is what you think about people who believe in "religion":

Quote

quote author=Straw Man
I never debate religion and I've never post on the religion board (I've only looked at it once or twice) 

In my opinion it's pointless to debate with someone who holds a position without evidence or in contrary to evidence.

Besides, my personal belief is anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill (for real) which again makes for a pointless discussion
[/quote]

That makes you weird Straw Man.  It also puts you out of step with:

- Every president in our nation's history
- Every legitimate presidential candidate
- Likely every current Governor in the United States
- All or substantially all of our U.S. House and Senate members
- The minister on the Congressional payroll
- A significant number of our state and city council members
- The more than 10,000 parochial schools in the United States
- The numerous religious colleges and universities in the United States

Etc., etc. 

But this is America.  You are free to keep believing that "anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill."  I just wouldn't share that in public too often.  It makes you sound like a weirdo.   

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2007, 11:54:25 AM »
lol.  The Queen is protesting too much.  Here is what you think about people who believe in "religion":

Quote

quote author=Straw Man
I never debate religion and I've never post on the religion board (I've only looked at it once or twice) 

In my opinion it's pointless to debate with someone who holds a position without evidence or in contrary to evidence.

Besides, my personal belief is anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill (for real) which again makes for a pointless discussion


That makes you weird Straw Man.  It also puts you out of step with:

- Every president in our nation's history
- Every legitimate presidential candidate
- Likely every current Governor in the United States
- All or substantially all of our U.S. House and Senate members
- The minister on the Congressional payroll
- A significant number of our state and city council members
- The more than 10,000 parochial schools in the United States
- The numerous religious colleges and universities in the United States

Etc., etc. 

But this is America.  You are free to keep believing that "anyone who holds a fundamentalist belief in any religion is mentally ill."  I just wouldn't share that in public too often.  It makes you sound like a weirdo.   

Bum, thanks for affirming my point.  I said people who hold FUNDAMENTALIST BELIEFS that are contrary to evidence and not merely a belief in a God or higher power.   

Do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old or that man is 6000 years old? 

If so what led you to draw this conclusion?

Please don't pull you usual crybaby response and declare that my questions is disingenous so that you can avoid answering.  Act like a big boy and if you hold this belief (common among Creationists) and then stand up proud and explain it to us.

Who know, you might win over a convert or two.


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2007, 02:11:07 PM »
Bum, thanks for affirming my point.  I said people who hold FUNDAMENTALIST BELIEFS that are contrary to evidence and not merely a belief in a God or higher power.   

Do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old or that man is 6000 years old? 

If so what led you to draw this conclusion?

Please don't pull you usual crybaby response and declare that my questions is disingenous so that you can avoid answering.  Act like a big boy and if you hold this belief (common among Creationists) and then stand up proud and explain it to us.

Who know, you might win over a convert or two.



You crack me up.  And what exactly is a "fundamentalist belief"? 

Okay, Weird Al, what does my belief in the earth's age have to do with what I posted?   ???  I have no idea how old the earth is.  Don't have an opinion.  How old are you?   ::) 

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2007, 02:41:00 PM »
You crack me up.  And what exactly is a "fundamentalist belief"? 

Okay, Weird Al, what does my belief in the earth's age have to do with what I posted?   ???  I have no idea how old the earth is.  Don't have an opinion.  How old are you?   ::) 

IMO - fundamentalist belief = extreme view contrary to evidence acceptable to the majority of intelligent adults

For example - one can certainly identify with a form of Christian thought (or belief in God, higher power, organizing principle etc..)  without having to believe that the earth is 10,000 years old or that man arrived on earth in his present form 6000 year ago.  Both of those views have nothing to do with a belief in God or the idea that there is an organizing intelligence in the universe/multiverse.  In fact those beliefs (creationist views on age of earth/man) are easily refuted by modern science.  To believe something like that is akin to a mental illness (IMO). 

I'm glad to see you don't believe such nonsense.

Keep in mind the very poll that is referenced in the story with which you started this thread, posed the following statement:

Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years

39% said definitely true and another 27% said probably true.

I'm glad to hear that you're not in either of these two groups and I have to assume that you think the idea is ridiculous too.


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2007, 11:06:35 AM »
IMO - fundamentalist belief = extreme view contrary to evidence acceptable to the majority of intelligent adults

For example - one can certainly identify with a form of Christian thought (or belief in God, higher power, organizing principle etc..)  without having to believe that the earth is 10,000 years old or that man arrived on earth in his present form 6000 year ago.  Both of those views have nothing to do with a belief in God or the idea that there is an organizing intelligence in the universe/multiverse.  In fact those beliefs (creationist views on age of earth/man) are easily refuted by modern science.  To believe something like that is akin to a mental illness (IMO). 

I'm glad to see you don't believe such nonsense.

Keep in mind the very poll that is referenced in the story with which you started this thread, posed the following statement:

Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years

39% said definitely true and another 27% said probably true.

I'm glad to hear that you're not in either of these two groups and I have to assume that you think the idea is ridiculous too.



I see.  So you're not saying that the approximately 90 percent of the adult American population who believe in God are not those who hold "extreme view contrary to evidence acceptable to the majority of intelligent adults"?  Who exactly are these people?  Anyone who follows a particular religion?

And what exactly did you mean by this comment:

Quote
Straw Man
Bum,

Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?

Also, I said I don't know what I believe regarding the earth's age.  I don't know how old the earth is.  Neither do you.   

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2007, 11:45:31 AM »
Also, I said I don't know what I believe regarding the earth's age.  I don't know how old the earth is.  Neither do you.   

Bum,

the article you started this thread with was about a survey of GOP voters and there lack of belief in evolution.

Also, what you wrote yesterday was that you had no opinion on the age of the earth.

what does my belief in the earth's age have to do with what I posted?   ???  I have no idea how old the earth is.  Don't have an opinion.  

This is odd because the last time you started a thread about evolution/creationism you repeatedly brought up the origin and age of the earth but when I asked you what specific point you were trying to make you just ran away

If you recall, I answered your question (see below) and then asked you what point you were trying to make and then you just avoided the question.

Even funnier - you now claim to have no opinion.    Who repeatedly brings up a question about something they have no opinion about?  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=153590.75


Who created the earth, ocean, and organism that evolved into all life was we know it today? 


Riiight.   ::)  And the theory of evolution doesn't do the same thing?  An explosion created a perfectly formed earth that rotates on its axis every 24 hours and revolves around the sun every 365 days, and created an organism that spawned all life on planet earth?  How did this happen?  It cannot be proved.  Don't try and tell me that God existing is an "unprovable" conclusion, but the sudden existence of our earth and an organism that created everything we see today CAN be proved.   

Camel where did the earth, ocean, and oganism that spawned all life on planet earth come from? 

  Where did the earth and the organism that spawned all life on planet earth come from? 

What's the answer?  Where did the earth and the organism that created life on earth come from? 

And you never answered my question about the origin of the earth and the organism that resulted in life on planet earth. 

my response and follow up question which you would/could not answer

your question was "Where did the earth and the organism that spawned all life on planet earth come from?"

and the answer is obvious - I have no idea

that being said doesn't constitute any sort of proof of the existence of God or Creationism. 

I've made the same point over and over.

That is the basic flaw in ALL of your arguments.
Let's try this one more time.  If you don't understand this maybe you can take it to one of your childrens grade school teachers and they can explain it to you.

The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

- Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.

- Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore   considered proved.





What's the point of the question in the first place?

You're trying to set up a form of negative argument which is specious.

No one can answer that question definitively but that does not IN ANY WAY constitute an affirmation or proof of God



At this point you just declared my question disengenous and didn't respond.

Why is it that you run away from your own arguments when faced with a challenge.

Why not just address my question head on

What point were you trying to make by constanting brining up the origin and age of the earth?

Even more - why pretend now that you don't even have an opinion given your obvious interest (presumably with some point) in your prior posts

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2007, 12:07:27 PM »
Bum,

the article you started this thread with was about a survey of GOP voters and there lack of belief in evolution.

Also, what you wrote yesterday was that you had no opinion on the age of the earth.

This is odd because the last time you started a thread about evolution/creationism you repeatedly brought up the origin and age of the earth but when I asked you what specific point you were trying to make you just ran away

If you recall, I answered your question (see below) and then asked you what point you were trying to make and then you just avoided the question.

Even funnier - you now claim to have no opinion.    Who repeatedly brings up a question about something they have no opinion about?  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=153590.75

my response and follow up question which you would/could not answer


At this point you just declared my question disengenous and didn't respond.

Why is it that you run away from your own arguments when faced with a challenge.

Why not just address my question head on

What point were you trying to make by constanting brining up the origin and age of the earth?

Even more - why pretend now that you don't even have an opinion given your obvious interest (presumably with some point) in your prior posts

Once again, all over the friggin map.   ::)  Get a grip dude.  I don't usually repeatedly answer the same question.  If you can't figure out that I answered your question, then that's your problem.  Go back and read slowly.  The answer is right under your nose, grasshopper.   

You didn't respond to my questions regarding your belief that the people who hold "fundamentalist beliefs" are "mentally ill."  Who are these people?  I won't keep asking and it's okay if you don't respond.  It's a weird opinion anyway.   :) 

Also, in response to my post that the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God, you responded with the following: 

"Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?" 

I asked for a clarification, because it certainly sounded as though you were calling anyone who believes in God stupid.  That's my interpretation anyway. 

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2007, 12:24:56 PM »
Once again, all over the friggin map.   ::)  Get a grip dude.  I don't usually repeatedly answer the same question.  If you can't figure out that I answered your question, then that's your problem.  Go back and read slowly.  The answer is right under your nose, grasshopper.   

You didn't respond to my questions regarding your belief that the people who hold "fundamentalist beliefs" are "mentally ill."  Who are these people?  I won't keep asking and it's okay if you don't respond.  It's a weird opinion anyway.   :) 

Also, in response to my post that the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God, you responded with the following: 

"Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?" 

I asked for a clarification, because it certainly sounded as though you were calling anyone who believes in God stupid.  That's my interpretation anyway. 

Bum - you seem to be the only one that can't follow along.

You've repeatedly brought up the question of the origin and age of the earth and when I asked you what point you were trying to make you avoided the question.

You seem to think that if you just reject modern science regarding the age of the earth then you somehow have only one other choice and that is that it was created by your Christian God.

As I've tried to explain - even if our current theories are proven totally wrong it still wouldn't bring you one step closer to proving your point.

See if you can recognize all of your arguments in these two fallacies.  They form the crux of most of your arguments:

The two most common forms of the argument from ignorance, both fallacious, can be reduced to the following form:

- Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true.

- Because there appears to be a lack of evidence for one hypothesis, another chosen hypothesis is therefore   considered proved.


------------------------

Bum, honestly why do you even bother trying to "prove" creationism or the existence of a Christian God.

If you could prove it then your religion would become a science.

Also, if you could prove it then what would be the value of faith?

Why do Christians go to such absurd lengths (like counting up the generations in the bible as proof of the age of man)

Why not just say your faith is what tells you something is true and don't even bother with the weak and totally false arguments.





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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2007, 01:04:26 PM »
Once again, all over the friggin map.   ::)  Get a grip dude.  I don't usually repeatedly answer the same question.  If you can't figure out that I answered your question, then that's your problem.  Go back and read slowly.  The answer is right under your nose, grasshopper.   

You didn't respond to my questions regarding your belief that the people who hold "fundamentalist beliefs" are "mentally ill."   Who are these people?  I won't keep asking and it's okay if you don't respond.  It's a weird opinion anyway.   :) 

Also, in response to my post that the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God, you responded with the following: 

"Is your point that a majority of American's are basically stupid?"
 

I asked for a clarification, because it certainly sounded as though you were calling anyone who believes in God stupid.  That's my interpretation anyway. 

Bum - I directly answered  your question and even gave you an example.  What about it don't you get and I'll try to clarify it for you. 

Regarding my comment about people being stupid - it was in reference to the original poll on this thread and not the poll that you posted about belief in God in general.  I do understand why you might be confused on this since my post was immediately after your post regarding the belief in God poll.  If you go back you'll notice that my post was not a response to your post.  It just happened to immediately follow it.

Just to be clear - I don't think people who believe in God are stupid (ANY GOD) and I don't believe people who don't believe in God are stupid either.  Neither position can be proven and it makes perfect sense to me that some people choose to believe in God or even just a higher power, an organzing intelligence or even just a holistic sense of self as one with the universe.   

Virtually all societies have religious beliefs and it makes perfect sense that someone growing up in a western culture might be indoctrinated in Christian thought (I was) just like someone who is born in India might be a Hindu and someone in Iran/Iraq might be a Muslim. 

What I do think is ridiculous is when Christians start making lame arguments like counting up the generations in their story book (aka the Bible) and then pretending that's somehow science.   It's also interesting that they reject Evolution (generally accepted by all mainstream scientists) but the only "reason" they can give is that they are a Christian (go back and read the actual Gallup Poll).    Even more lame is the arguments that you repeatedly make where you simply reject something and then pretend that by virtue of your rejection of one hypothesis that you've proven your point.   Keep doing this and I'll keep pointing out that it's stupid.  If you disagree then try addressing it directly. 

Here's another wacky example that I learned being raised as a Catholic.  Fundamentalist Catholics believe that the communion wafer and the wine Literally become the physical body and the blood of Jesus.  This is their literal belief.  It's called transubstantiation.  I thought that was stupid when I was 7 years old  and learned about it when getting ready for my first communion.  Guess what - I still think it's stupid today   I could go on with these examples all day long

IMO - fundamentalist belief = extreme view contrary to evidence acceptable to the majority of intelligent adults

For example - one can certainly identify with a form of Christian thought (or belief in God, higher power, organizing principle etc..)  without having to believe that the earth is 10,000 years old or that man arrived on earth in his present form 6000 year ago.  Both of those views have nothing to do with a belief in God or the idea that there is an organizing intelligence in the universe/multiverse.  In fact those beliefs (creationist views on age of earth/man) are easily refuted by modern science.  To believe something like that is akin to a mental illness (IMO). 

I'm glad to see you don't believe such nonsense.

Keep in mind the very poll that is referenced in the story with which you started this thread, posed the following statement:

Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years

39% said definitely true and another 27% said probably true.

I'm glad to hear that you're not in either of these two groups and I have to assume that you think the idea is ridiculous too.