Author Topic: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory  (Read 7187 times)

Dos Equis

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Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« on: June 12, 2007, 08:54:16 AM »
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:17 a.m. EDT
Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory

The three Republican presidential candidates who indicated last month that they do not believe in evolution may have been taking a safe stance on the issue when it comes to appealing to GOP voters.

A Gallup poll released Monday said that while the country is about evenly split over whether the theory of evolution is true, Republicans disbelieve it by more than 2-to-1.

Republicans saying they don't believe in evolution outnumbered those who do by 68 percent to 30 percent in the survey. Democrats believe in evolution by 57 percent to 40 percent, as do independents by a 61 percent to 37 percent margin.

The poll also said that those who go to church often are far likelier to reject evolution than those who do not. Republicans are likelier than Democrats or independents to attend church services, according to Frank Newport, editor in chief of the Gallup Poll.

At the GOP's first presidential debate last month, the 10 candidates were asked which of them did not believe in evolution. Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo raised their hands.

The Gallup survey, conducted May 21 to 24, involved telephone interviews with 1,007 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/12/72000.shtml?s=ic

Camel Jockey

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 10:46:24 AM »
*yawn*

Dos Equis

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Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 11:04:03 AM »
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:17 a.m. EDT
Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory

The three Republican presidential candidates who indicated last month that they do not believe in evolution may have been taking a safe stance on the issue when it comes to appealing to GOP voters.

A Gallup poll released Monday said that while the country is about evenly split over whether the theory of evolution is true, Republicans disbelieve it by more than 2-to-1.

Republicans saying they don't believe in evolution outnumbered those who do by 68 percent to 30 percent in the survey. Democrats believe in evolution by 57 percent to 40 percent, as do independents by a 61 percent to 37 percent margin.

The poll also said that those who go to church often are far likelier to reject evolution than those who do not. Republicans are likelier than Democrats or independents to attend church services, according to Frank Newport, editor in chief of the Gallup Poll.

At the GOP's first presidential debate last month, the 10 candidates were asked which of them did not believe in evolution. Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo raised their hands.

The Gallup survey, conducted May 21 to 24, involved telephone interviews with 1,007 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/12/72000.shtml?s=ic
And these republicans wonder why the rest of us are laughing.

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 11:07:52 AM »
And these republicans wonder why the rest of us are laughing.

Laughing all the way to the polls? 

Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 11:27:44 AM »
Laughing all the way to the polls? 
No laughing at theiir Taliban-like hostility to science for the sake of religious expediency.  That's highly entertaining stuff to educated people.

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 11:34:45 AM »
A Confederacy of Dunces

Why is this question even part of the political discourse?

This question is really just a proxy for what they'd really like to ask which is something along the lines of

"do you pledge to pander to the hive-mind of the radical religious right"

Either that or it's an intelligence test


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 11:38:15 AM »
No laughing at theiir Taliban-like hostility to science for the sake of religious expediency.  That's highly entertaining stuff to educated people.

You mean like the 40 percents of scientists who believe in God (according to a poll cited by Camel)?  Or the "educated people" who have written books discussing the gaping holes in evolution?

I saw Huckabee being interviewed by Chris Mathews last night and Mathews spent about 5 minutes trying to make Huckabee look like a nut over this creation vs. evolution thing.  No specifics, just the general "how could you not believe we descended from apes" stuff.  Talk about a red herring.

Huckabee looks like a good candidate BTW.  Too bad he won't get much play.      

Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 11:45:41 AM »
You mean like the 40 percents of scientists who believe in God (according to a poll cited by Camel)?  Or the "educated people" who have written books discussing the gaping holes in evolution?

I saw Huckabee being interviewed by Chris Mathews last night and Mathews spent about 5 minutes trying to make Huckabee look like a nut over this creation vs. evolution thing.  No specifics, just the general "how could you not believe we descended from apes" stuff.  Talk about a red herring.

Huckabee looks like a good candidate BTW.  Too bad he won't get much play.      

Belief in God has nothing to do with intentional ignorance. 
If by 'educated people' you mean Dr. Kent Hovind, then my answer is yes.  I have attended Hovind's creation seminars.  I have met the man.  He's a lunatic. 

Here are a couple of websites that will help you get over your idea that somehow evolution is on shaky ground and that creation science offers a compelling alternative explanation.
http://www.kent-hovind.com/

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 11:50:02 AM »
Belief in God has nothing to do with intentional ignorance. 
If by 'educated people' you mean Dr. Kent Hovind, then my answer is yes.  I have attended Hovind's creation seminars.  I have met the man.  He's a lunatic. 

Here are a couple of websites that will help you get over your idea that somehow evolution is on shaky ground and that creation science offers a compelling alternative explanation.
http://www.kent-hovind.com/

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/


Let's not forgot Michael Behe who had his head handed to him in court when he tried to defend Intelligent Design

I like Dawkins response to Behe and other "educated people" like him:

"He's a straightforward creationist. What he has done is to take a standard argument which dates back to the 19th century, the argument of irreducible complexity, the argument that there are certain organs, certain systems in which all the bits have to be there together or the whole system won't work...like the eye. Darwin answered (this)...point by point, piece by piece. But maybe he shouldn't have bothered. Maybe what he should have said is...maybe you're too thick to think of a reason why the eye could have come about by gradual steps, but perhaps you should go away and think a bit harder."

headhuntersix

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 11:54:38 AM »
Look dude the average Republican is a centerist..most of us on the board claim to be Conservatives. Most of the country is Center right whether they be republican or democrate..your lumping us all in with evangelicals...i won't for one minute defend the bible as some sort of science text book...I think when BB mentions evolution and the holes in it..i'm sure he does not mean that they can and will be plugged by faith or God, rather by more hard science.
L

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2007, 11:56:20 AM »
Belief in God has nothing to do with intentional ignorance. 
If by 'educated people' you mean Dr. Kent Hovind, then my answer is yes.  I have attended Hovind's creation seminars.  I have met the man.  He's a lunatic. 

Here are a couple of websites that will help you get over your idea that somehow evolution is on shaky ground and that creation science offers a compelling alternative explanation.
http://www.kent-hovind.com/

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/


I'm familiar with both.  If you're interested, here is a book that I found very interesting:  "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution."  http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Black-Box-Biochemical-Challenge/dp/0743290313/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9359477-2415957?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181674049&sr=1-1

I highly recommend it.  It will challenge, on a scientific level, much of what you were taught growing up.    

I'm also going to read this one:  "Billions of Missing Links: A Rational Look at the Mysteries Evolution Can't Explain."  http://www.amazon.com/Billions-Missing-Links-Mysteries-Evolution/dp/0736917462/ref=sr_1_1/104-9359477-2415957?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181674386&sr=8-1

I heard Dr. Simmons on the radio and he sounded great.  I'll post a book report in a couple months.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 12:00:01 PM »
Look dude the average Republican is a centerist..most of us on the board claim to be Conservatives. Most of the country is Center right whether they be republican or democrate..your lumping us all in with evangelicals...i won't for one minute defend the bible as some sort of science text book...I think when BB mentions evolution and the holes in it..i'm sure he does not mean that they can and will be plugged by faith or God, rather by more hard science.

Ding!   :)  Although I must say that some of the gaping holes (like irreducible complexity) do lead to the logical conclusion that someone or something had to design those systems.  But I don't believe the Bible is a science book. 

Many people are just really afraid, paranoid even, to question what we have been taught for years.  This is particularly true of anti-religious extremists. 

Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 12:02:20 PM »
I'm familiar with both.  If you're interested, here is a book that I found very interesting:  "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution."  http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Black-Box-Biochemical-Challenge/dp/0743290313/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9359477-2415957?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181674049&sr=1-1

I highly recommend it.  It will challenge, on a scientific level, much of what you were taught growing up.    

I'm also going to read this one:  "Billions of Missing Links: A Rational Look at the Mysteries Evolution Can't Explain."  http://www.amazon.com/Billions-Missing-Links-Mysteries-Evolution/dp/0736917462/ref=sr_1_1/104-9359477-2415957?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181674386&sr=8-1

I heard Dr. Simmons on the radio and he sounded great.  I'll post a book report in a couple months.   :)
I appreciate all the work you put into your posts Beach Bum, thanks...I'll look into the Black Box Book.

headhuntersix

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 12:07:43 PM »
Ding!   :)  Although I must say that some of the gaping holes (like irreducible complexity) do lead to the logical conclusion that someone or something had to design those systems.  But I don't believe the Bible is a science book. 

Many people are just really afraid, paranoid even, to question what we have been taught for years.  This is particularly true of anti-religious extremists. 

BB always does a good job clarifing my convoluted points so i figured I'd do him a favor and help him since to me, it was obvious he wasn't disagreeing with you guys so much.
L

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 12:12:21 PM »
Ding!   :)  Although I must say that some of the gaping holes (like irreducible complexity) do lead to the logical conclusion that someone or something had to design those systems.  But I don't believe the Bible is a science book. 

Many people are just really afraid, paranoid even, to question what we have been taught for years.  This is particularly true of anti-religious extremists. 

Bum, to the best of my recollection you've never suggested that the holes in evolution would be "filled in" by future science.  In fact you've repeatedly suggested the opposite and used that as a specious argument in support of creationism (again - best of my recollection but I will gladly concede if you can show me otherwise)

Honesty, I'm not even sure that you actually understand the theory of evolution when you make comments like this:

No.  A bird evolving into another species of bird still leaves you with a bird.  A bird evolving into a dog is another story.   

irreducible complecity is not a gaping hole.   

It's a term that Behe invented to say that he can't understand how evolution works and then he uses that as some sort of proof of Creationism.  His own university has put out an official statement in complete opposition to his claims. 

Behe's claims about the irreducible complexity of key cellular structures are strongly contested by the scientific community. The Department of Biological Sciences, at Lehigh University, published an official position statement which says "It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific." [1] His claims about intelligent design have been characterized as pseudoscience

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2007, 12:15:04 PM »
I appreciate all the work you put into your posts Beach Bum, thanks...I'll look into the Black Box Book.

you can read about Behe and his "theories" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe

Behe had a chance to make his argument in Court in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District and got his ass kicked.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 12:16:26 PM »
You mean like the 40 percents of scientists who believe in God (according to a poll cited by Camel)?  Or the "educated people" who have written books discussing the gaping holes in evolution?



Only about 7% of the scientists in the National Academy of Sciences believe in god.. And this number was higher in 1914 at about 28%.. So this shows people becoming less religious.  ;D

References:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2007, 12:17:41 PM »
The judge in his final ruling relied heavily upon Behe's testimony for the defense, citing:

"Consider, to illustrate, that Professor Behe remarkably and unmistakably claims that the plausibility of the argument for ID depends upon the extent to which one believes in the existence of God."[5]
'As no evidence in the record indicates that any other scientific proposition's validity rests on belief in God, nor is the Court aware of any such scientific propositions, Professor Behe's assertion constitutes substantial evidence that in his view, as is commensurate with other prominent ID leaders, ID is a religious and not a scientific proposition."[5]

"First, defense expert Professor Fuller agreed that ID aspires to "change the ground rules" of science and lead defense expert Professor Behe admitted that his broadened definition of science, which encompasses ID, would also embrace astrology. Moreover, defense expert Professor Minnich acknowledged that for ID to be considered science, the ground rules of science have to be broadened to allow consideration of supernatural forces."[6]

"What is more, defense experts concede that ID is not a theory as that term is defined by the NAS and admit that ID is at best "fringe science" which has achieved no acceptance in the scientific community."[7]

"We therefore find that Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large."[8]

"ID proponents primarily argue for design through negative arguments against evolution, as illustrated by Professor Behe’s argument that “irreducibly complex” systems cannot be produced through Darwinian, or any natural, mechanisms. However, … arguments against evolution are not arguments for design. Expert testimony revealed that just because scientists cannot explain today how biological systems evolved does not mean that they cannot, and will not, be able to explain them tomorrow. As Dr. Padian aptly noted, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”… Irreducible complexity is a negative argument against evolution, not proof of design, a point conceded by defense expert Professor Minnich."[30]

"Professor Behe’s concept of irreducible complexity depends on ignoring ways in which evolution is known to occur. Although Professor Behe is adamant in his definition of irreducible complexity when he says a precursor “missing a part is by definition nonfunctional,” what he obviously means is that it will not function in the same way the system functions when all the parts are present. For example in the case of the bacterial flagellum, removal of a part may prevent it from acting as a rotary motor. However, Professor Behe excludes, by definition, the possibility that a precursor to the bacterial flagellum functioned not as a rotary motor, but in some other way, for example as a secretory system."[31]

"Professor Behe has applied the concept of irreducible complexity to only a few select systems: (1) the bacterial flagellum; (2) the blood-clotting cascade; and (3) the immune system. Contrary to Professor Behe’s assertions with respect to these few biochemical systems among the myriad existing in nature, however, Dr. Miller presented evidence, based upon peer-reviewed studies, that they are not in fact irreducibly complex."[32]

"...proponents assert that they refuse to propose hypotheses on the designer’s identity, do not propose a mechanism, and the designer, he/she/it/they, has never been seen. … Professor Behe’s only response to these seemingly insurmountable points of disanalogy was that the inference still works in science fiction movies."[33]

Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2007, 12:19:44 PM »
Let's not forgot Michael Behe who had his head handed to him in court when he tried to defend Intelligent Design

I like Dawkins response to Behe and other "educated people" like him:

"He's a straightforward creationist. What he has done is to take a standard argument which dates back to the 19th century, the argument of irreducible complexity, the argument that there are certain organs, certain systems in which all the bits have to be there together or the whole system won't work...like the eye. Darwin answered (this)...point by point, piece by piece. But maybe he shouldn't have bothered. Maybe what he should have said is...maybe you're too thick to think of a reason why the eye could have come about by gradual steps, but perhaps you should go away and think a bit harder."
That's a great point.  I'd almost forgotten about that case.  It's devastating to creationists.

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2007, 12:20:54 PM »
I appreciate all the work you put into your posts Beach Bum, thanks...I'll look into the Black Box Book.

No problem.   :)  You may not agree with his conclusions, but if you read the book it will cause you to think much deeper about what we have been taught.  It isn't a religious book at all.  Don't just rely on the review of others, many of whom haven't read the book, try it yourself.  I'd love to hear your comments after you've read it.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2007, 12:21:22 PM »
BB always does a good job clarifing my convoluted points so i figured I'd do him a favor and help him since to me, it was obvious he wasn't disagreeing with you guys so much.

Thanks mang.   :)

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2007, 12:23:08 PM »
Many people are just really afraid, paranoid even, to question what we have been taught for years.  

Bum - you are absolutely correct in this statement but it applies much more to religious thought (aka 2000 year old superstition) and not to 21 century science

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2007, 12:43:37 PM »
Bum - you are absolutely correct in this statement but it applies much more to religious thought (aka 2000 year old superstition) and not to 21 century science

I think it can apply to both religious and anti-religious thought.  You have paranoid extremists on both sides.  But one thing I've learned is tradition can trump most anything.  People get comfortable with certain beliefs and practices and don't like to challenge them.   

Decker

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Re: Poll: 68% of GOP Voters Reject Evolution Theory
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 12:48:44 PM »
The last 2-day seminar given by Dr. Hovind which I attended struck me this way: it was insulation.

The show opened w/ a big projected image of a monkey changing, pic by pic, into Bill Clinton.  Funny stuff.  Insulates one from true thinking on politics.

Hovind appeared (in a puff of smoke...I kid) stating that he believed the bible to be the literal inerrant word of god.  Insulates one from any independent thinking.

He talked about floods and dinosaurs and monsters and mammoths.  Fascinating stories, which is why my brother and I went, but stories nonetheless.  Insulates from science and counter arguments.

On the final day there was a palpable feeling of a cocoon of well-being.  Why after Dr. Hovind showed us how to shoot a rubber band AND a paper airplane through the air effectively, everyone was having fun.

At the end of the day, man was 6000 years old and co-existed with dinosaurs.  All geology is explained by a cataclysmic flood and the devil is the source of evolution b/c he's trying to discredit the bible as history, ethics, science, sociology, psychology all in one, the inerrant word of God.

I loved the show though and I gave $20 at both of his "love offerings" when the plate was passed.