Author Topic: Losing Muslim hearts and minds  (Read 8278 times)

24KT

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Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« on: June 19, 2007, 11:46:02 PM »
Losing Muslim hearts and minds
Why the White House should worry about a new poll suggesting that even allied Muslim countries believe the U.S. wants to weaken and divide the Islamic world.


EDITORIAL - The Los Angeles Times, April 25, 2007

IT HAS BEEN a long and bloody spring in Iraq and Afghanistan, but on the battlefield of ideas, the news is even less encouraging. A survey released Tuesday by WorldPublic-Opinion.org suggests that the struggle for Muslim hearts and minds may already be lost.

Overwhelming majorities of those surveyed in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan and Indonesia say they believe that the U.S. seeks to "weaken and divide the Islamic world" and to "achieve political and military domination to control Middle East resources." Most say they think that Al Qaeda defends the dignity of Muslims by standing up to the U.S., and most share the terrorist organization's goal of evicting the U.S. military from the Mideast.

More alarming is the support among citizens of allied countries for attacking U.S. troops in Iraq. That includes 91% of those polled in Egypt, 68% in Morocco, 35% in Pakistan and 19% in Indonesia. Approval rates for attacks on U.S. troops based in Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf states were almost as high. (The polling was conducted between December and February, with support from the University of Maryland.)

These numbers should be memorized by members of Congress and President Bush as they gird this week for the latest battle over Iraq war funding and timetables for troop withdrawal. One of the administration's key rationales for deploying troops longer than the Democratic Congress wishes is to prevent Iraq from becoming an Al Qaeda beachhead. To the extent that the U.S. presence in the Middle East increases support for Al Qaeda, as the poll suggests, will prolonging the American military mission be counterproductive to the broader struggle against radical Islamic fanaticism and terror?

The pollsters found two rays of hope relevant to Washington strategists. First, large majorities of the Muslims polled strongly disapprove of attacks on U.S. civilians. Second, probably due to the carnage that he has inflicted on fellow Muslims, Osama Bin Laden's ratings are falling. In Jordan, for example, 60% expressed confidence in Bin Laden in 2005, but after the Al Qaeda suicide bombing of a Jordanian wedding party, confidence fell to 34% in 2006, according to pollster Steven Kull. Still, the latest survey finds large majorities expressing either positive or mixed feelings about Bin Laden.

Many apparently rationalize their support for Al Qaeda by concluding that it wasn't behind 9/11. Despite Bin Laden's televised boasting, fewer than one in four surveyed — and just 2% of Pakistanis — say they think that Al Qaeda masterminded the attacks. This depressing landscape suggests a steep uphill climb for the United States. Yet persuading Muslims of the merits of democratic over theocratic rule remains Washington's only viable long-term strategy to win the generational war against Islamic extremists.
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2007, 10:39:15 AM »
common jag..when jesus tells bush to do it..its a holy war..
carpe` vaginum!

youandme

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2007, 11:21:12 AM »
If the % is that high, then they should be added to the axis of evil, doubt about it, haha.

Cavalier22

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2007, 06:27:55 PM »
who gives a shit, let them kill each other like they are in palestine. fuckin throwbacks to the barbarian ages
Valhalla awaits.

24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2007, 10:30:52 PM »
who gives a shit, let them kill each other like they are in palestine. fuckin throwbacks to the barbarian ages

Dude, as usual, you completely missed the point.

This is alarming to me, not so much because they want to kill each other. it is alarming because the percentage who now agree that it's acceptable to kill and attack Americans has risen so sharply. You would never have seen these kinds of numbers 4 years ago.
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2007, 02:45:38 AM »
Dude, as usual, you completely missed the point.

This is alarming to me, not so much because they want to kill each other. it is alarming because the percentage who now agree that it's acceptable to kill and attack Americans has risen so sharply. You would never have seen these kinds of numbers 4 years ago.

Think about it, who really gives a shit from a group of people who believe it is exceptable to kill and attack Americans? You think they have moral standards etc that we should take note of? The poll is fluff.

You're just a stupid liberal apologist Jag, wanting to listen and help a population with such ridiculous ideas/morals etc that any person with common sense would write off.

It's in their religious doctrine to believe/commit such atrocities. Refute it.
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24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2007, 09:47:01 AM »
Think about it, who really gives a shit from a group of people who believe it is exceptable to kill and attack Americans?

Apparently you do. You can't muster that much hatred & animosity without giving a shit or two.
Infact, I suspect you crap your pants on a daily basis.

Another idiot that missed the point.  ::)

ps: The correct word you were striving for was 'acceptable' not 'exceptable'.
Where were you educated, ...in a barn?
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2007, 12:26:18 PM »
Apparently you do. You can't muster that much hatred & animosity without giving a shit or two.
Infact, I suspect you crap your pants on a daily basis.

Another idiot that missed the point.  ::)

ps: The correct word you were striving for was 'acceptable' not 'exceptable'.
Where were you educated, ...in a barn?

No, you missed my point idiot, on the sentance you quoted me on...

Graduate of Manchester University, Comp Sci & Mathamatics.

What are your credentials you fucking idiot? University of life from the ghettos no less I bet! ::)
الاسلام هو شيطانية

24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 01:57:20 AM »
No, you missed my point idiot, on the sentance you quoted me on...

Graduate of Manchester University, Comp Sci & Mathamatics.

What are your credentials you fucking idiot? University of life from the ghettos no less I bet! ::)

well then, I guess that settles that.  ::)
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 04:18:45 AM »
well then, I guess that settles that.  ::)

So seriously, to use spelling and grammar mistakes in your war chest of debate tactics you must have some formal education in a university somewhere right?

What are your educational credentials? ???
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dizzleman06

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 11:37:48 AM »
So seriously, to use spelling and grammar mistakes in your war chest of debate tactics you must have some formal education in a university somewhere right?

What are your educational credentials? ???

.......crickets...... ;D

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2007, 02:10:23 PM »
Apparently you do. You can't muster that much hatred & animosity without giving a shit or two.
Infact, I suspect you crap your pants on a daily basis.

Another idiot that missed the point.  ::)

ps: The correct word you were striving for was 'acceptable' not 'exceptable'.
Where were you educated, ...in a barn?


sweetie some brownie fucked his girl wayy back in 1992 ansd he's still pissed over but..

buuut..yanno what they say about english men  ;D
carpe` vaginum!

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 02:11:14 PM »


Graduate of Manchester University, Comp Sci & Mathamatics.




LMAO!  ;D



...good one!
carpe` vaginum!

Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2007, 01:47:43 AM »

sweetie some brownie fucked his girl wayy back in 1992 ansd he's still pissed over but..

buuut..yanno what they say about english men  ;D

Ad hominem, attack me, not attacking my points... very interesting, you're the more masculine version of Jag.

Plus... it'd be pretty sick if a brownie fucked "my girl" in 1992, that would mean she would be 9 years old... interesting... didn't muhammad fuck a 9 year old? Aaah shit... your could be right!

LMAO!  ;D



...good one!

 ???
الاسلام هو شيطانية

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 08:02:36 AM »
Ad hominem, attack me, not attacking my points... very interesting, you're the more masculine version of Jag.





of course i'm attacking ya...yer a hatred mongering douchebag  :)
carpe` vaginum!

Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 08:04:08 AM »
of course i'm attacking ya...yer a hatred mongering douchebag  :)

Yet you can't refute my arguement? It's not hate mongering if it's true.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2007, 08:26:55 AM »
Yet you can't refute my arguement? It's not hate mongering if it's true.

what argument?  :-\

the more you post the more i see you as a pasty insecure little bitch type that hasn't gotton any in years  :)


carpe` vaginum!

Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 08:58:59 AM »
what argument?  :-\

the more you post the more i see you as a pasty insecure little bitch type that hasn't gotton any in years  :)

lol, your analytical skills are exceptional. Have you considered applying for a career at Mi6? Hit me up and I can get the ball rolling for you brother!

Considering I haven't "had any in years", how about you tell me how much you want for your sister?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 10:04:29 AM »
Nordic, ...whatever you do, DON'T watch "When the Moors Ruled in Europe"

It might give you an absolute heart attack to learn how Europe flourished under the beneficence of Islam.

Might also give you a bit more insight into your Comp Sci & mathamatical predecessors
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 11:06:30 AM »
Nordic, ...whatever you do, DON'T watch "When the Moors Ruled in Europe"

It might give you an absolute heart attack to learn how Europe flourished under the beneficence of Islam.

Might also give you a bit more insight into your Comp Sci & mathamatical predecessors

Wait let me get this straight... the Moors ruled Europe? Or did they rule Spain? Britain is part of Europe, can you give me some historical dates and literature showing they ruled Britain?

Flourished? Debatable.

What really sickens me about you is you are quick to commend muslims when they are the Empire builders. Oh for it is something to be praised!

You're not an hypocrite are you? You'd find it entirely acceptable Britain and the USA went around the world again building empires and allowing countries to flourish (Canada, USA, Australia, South Africa, India etc)?

What about the white Europeans conquering the Americas, with the knowledge and intellect the Europeans possessed several great and economically powerful countries arose. You accept this as OK right? Or are you to once again contradict your stance?

You're pseudo intellectual. You have no credentials in any topic... do you even have a formal education?

Aah that's right, for you do NOT!

I'd really appreciate you respond to this, instead of playing the lying coward role you normally do when backed into a corner you can't get out of.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 11:38:22 AM »
Wait let me get this straight... the Moors ruled Europe? Or did they rule Spain? Britain is part of Europe, can you give me some historical dates and literature showing they ruled Britain?

I believe the title I stated was "When The Moors Ruled IN Europe." Spain is IN Europe.
I didn't say they ruled in Britain, although Oxford was founded as a repository of intellectual, & scientific knowledge gleaned from the treasure trove of Islamic archives.

Quote
Flourished? Debatable.

{LOL} If you say so. You are either in complete denial or simply ignorant. It's not surprising though, there has been alot of selective omission through the years. I have no doubt your education was probably as full of shit as your arguments. (I mean that in the sweetest way)  :-*

Quote
What really sickens me about you is you are quick to commend muslims when they are the Empire builders. Oh for it is something to be praised!

Islam lifted Europe out of "the dark ages" giving rise to the period known as "The Renaissance" even if it was credited to Italy.

Quote
You're not an hypocrite are you? You'd find it entirely acceptable Britain and the USA went around the world again building empires and allowing countries to flourish (Canada, USA, Australia, South Africa, India etc)?

What about the white Europeans conquering the Americas, with the knowledge and intellect the Europeans possessed several great and economically powerful countries arose. You accept this as OK right? Or are you to once again contradict your stance?

You're pseudo intellectual. You have no credentials in any topic... do you even have a formal education?

Aah that's right, for you do NOT!

If you say so.  ::)  Unlike YOU I don't feel compelled to trot out academic credentials (mispelled or otherwise) when mere facts suffice.

Quote
I'd really appreciate you respond to this, instead of playing the lying coward role you normally do when backed into a corner you can't get out of.

What a rather limited paradigmn from which you operate.
Not all empires were built through blood, conquest, and barbarism,
...although many an empire has been destroyed by it.

Such a hostile little fellow you are. I hope I haven't burst your bubble too much by revealing that Islam gave birth to the European Renaissance, without which... well, let's not go there. I'll leave you with a few self-indulgent fantasies  :-*

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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2007, 11:50:00 AM »
Please read:

In the 8th century, nearly all the Iberian peninsula was quickly conquered (711–718) by mainly Berber Muslims (see Moors) from North Africa. These conquests were part of the expansion of the Islamic Umayyad Empire.[10] Only three small areas in the mountains of northern Spain managed to cling to their independence, Asturias, Navarra and Aragon.

Under Islam, Christians and Jews were recognised as "peoples of the book", and were free to practice their religion, but faced some discriminations. Conversion to Islam proceeded at a steadily increasing pace, starting with the aristocracy, as it offered an escape from the limitations and humiliations of their dhimmi status. By the 11th century Muslims were believed to have outnumbered Christians in Al-Andalus.[11]

The Muslim community in Spain was itself diverse and beset by social tensions. The Berber people of North Africa had provided the bulk of the armies and clashed with the Arab leadership from the Middle East.[12] Over time, large Moorish populations became established, especially in the Guadalquivir River valley, the coastal plain of Valencia, and (towards the end of this period) in the mountainous region of Granada.[11]

Cordoba, Muslim Spain's capital, was viewed as the richest and most sophisticated city of medieval Europe.[13] Mediterranean trade and cultural exchange flourished. Muslims imported a rich intellectual tradition from the Middle East and North Africa. Muslim and Jewish scholars played a major part in reviving and expanding classical Greek learning in Western Europe. Spain's romanised cultures interacted with Muslim and Jewish cultures in complex ways, giving Spain a distinctive culture.[11] Outside the cities, the land ownership system from Roman times remained largely intact as Muslim leaders rarely dispossessed landowners, and new crops and techniques led to a remarkable expansion of agriculture.

However, by the 11th century, Muslim holdings had fractured into rival Taifa kingdoms.[11] The arrival of the North African Muslim ruling empires of the Almoravids and the Almohads restored unity upon Muslim holdings, with a stricter, less tolerant application of Islam, but ultimately, after some initial successes in invading the north, proved unable to resist the increasing military strength of the Christian states.[4]



What a spectacle, you say the muslims empire building wasn't through "blood, conquest, and barbarism".

My god how much more incorrect could you be?

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain

Note muslim spain was a precursor to something greater. There's always a precursor. You only give this one credit becuase it is islam, and you're a closet muslim.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

24KT

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2007, 11:59:47 AM »
A "closet muslim"?  {ROTFLMAO} I've never heard that one before.

By the way, ...the Berbers were actually called in as military reinforcements when Granada was seiged.

Then as now, it appears peaceful moderates are losing ground to the fanatical extremists fertilized by the hostile actions of others.
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2007, 12:03:52 PM »
A "closet muslim"?  {ROTFLMAO} I've never heard that one before.

By the way, ...the Berbers were actually called in as military reinforcements when Granada was seiged.

Then as now, it appears peaceful moderates are losing ground to the fanatical extremists fertilized by the hostile actions of others.

There's no moderation in islam, this is a coined term by western politically correct media.

How can the infallible word of god be moderated by man?

Do you mean to say: most muslims really aren't muslims, but call themselves muslims?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Losing Muslim hearts and minds
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2007, 02:20:42 PM »
lol, your analytical skills are exceptional. Have you considered applying for a career at Mi6? Hit me up and I can get the ball rolling for you brother!

Considering I haven't "had any in years", how about you tell me how much you want for your sister?

didn't ya just act all uppity for me getting personal...

douchebag  :-\

and no...i think you r prolly an ugly fat fuck..prove me wrong..

you wont  :-\
carpe` vaginum!