All naturals have basically the same amount of muscle on there structure

[CARTEL]

is that why you live with your mom and unload drywall for a living at age 25?  status?

ZING!

[shiftedShapes]

after a few years of training. just look at the mr. getbig competition we all look  about evenly muscled for our structure some of us are taller or shorter. some are a little more ripped in some places than others. its all basically the same. and the best physique is really in the eye of the beholder. its funny when people say oh so and so is much more ripped or big or when i post a pic on here everyother day i either get oh your juiced or oh your off cycle lol everyone looks like shit unflexed or unposed or candid. people who juice just waddle around and look like shit

we all look like shit unflexed for us naturals or look like we dont even workout. thats a fact a little pump here or there everything looks different. flaring out your arms everything changes, its stupid and simple.. look at the mr getbig comp we all have monster 14 inch arms. we look normal if we werent flexing. some are obese like squad father and you really look bad when you are that fat, yet he has the same amount of muscle as anyone on here.

no one really has superior genetics, only a superior mindset. naturals all have very good proportions. its all about the gays personal preference when judging physiques.

same with girls they are all the same really all the small ones look alike all the blondes look alike they are all look very fuckable they all vary and they can all look different at any given time depending on the light.

This is exactly right.

Matt C doesn't understand this and concluded that he lost muscle based on a comparison of his unpumped relaxed shots with flexed and pumped shots.

Like comparing your flacid cock to your full boner and worrying that it shrunk.  VICIOUS ANXIETY

[shiftedShapes]

aLSO DW

I can clearly see that you have almost the exact same musculature as when you started posting.  The variations can be accounted for almost completely by pump, and BF/ water.

same goes for the pros, most never change their basic muscle durring their pro carriers, they just gain lard and guts and come in at varying levels of hardness

[Cee21Jay]

What the hell are you saying?  That a natural never improves from the time he first touches a weight?

No.  Maybe the first line confused you.  I will word better. "In my experience I agree that naturals do not vary much from each other ."   Read DW's post and mine, I am agreeing with what he says in regards to natural BB'ing.

[brian36]

So you guys are saying that a top college football player like Adrian Peterson of Oklahoma or Paul Posluzny of Penn State have the same natural muscle mass as the regular kid they sit next to in their college classes?  I disagree.  Humans come in many shapes, structures and yes a wide variety of natural muscle mass.

[Cee21Jay]

So you guys are saying that a top college football player like Adrian Peterson of Oklahoma or Paul Posluzny of Penn State have the same natural muscle mass as the regular kid they sit next to in their college classes?  I disagree.  Humans come in many shapes, structures and yes a wide variety of natural muscle mass.

Probably similar natural muscle mass.  There are always exceptions.

[brian36]

You can't be serious.

[brian36]

Some people have big noses vs. small noses, curly hair vs. straight hair, different eye colors and shapes, different bone thickness, etc.  So why would natural muscle mass not vary.

[Cee21Jay]

You can't be serious.

Yes I am.  I googled the Penn state player.  Looks like a tall guy that hits the weights.  With your response I was expecting one of the exceptions.  I am sure he has good coordination and strength. 

[HowieW]

FUCKIN' AYE!!!!!!!!!!!!


I feel dumber just for clicking on this thread......

LOL !  Saying all naturals have the same muscle size is like saying all farts smell the same

[Cee21Jay]

Some people have big noses vs. small noses, curly hair vs. straight hair, different eye colors and shapes, different bone thickness, etc.  So why would natural muscle mass not vary.

I am not saying people don't vary, just not by a great deal.  Overall hair looks like hair and a nose is a nose. The size and proportion of the nose and quality of the hair does not seem to differ much between people. Natural trainers in my opinion tend to look fairly similar in terms of musculature in regards to their frame.  Most people are "normal" in regards to physical appearance.  I have only encountered a few natural people that appear markedly different muscular wise.  Natural trainers certainly look different aesthetically but that muscular element seems to be the same.  This is my opinion.  I don't see through your eyes.

[Earl1972]

So you guys are saying that a top college football player like Adrian Peterson of Oklahoma or Paul Posluzny of Penn State have the same natural muscle mass as the regular kid they sit next to in their college classes?  I disagree.  Humans come in many shapes, structures and yes a wide variety of natural muscle mass.

Paul is a kid that i watched play high school football and he was barely 200 pounds his senior year at about 6'1

E

[omg]

man everyones arm is only 14" inches

my arm is bigger than that!!! holy shit when can i get my pro card

[DK II]

my arm is bigger than that!!! holy shit when can i get my pro card

email chick, he'll send you one. you only have to pay 30,000$ printing fee.

[BIG ACH]

I could not Disagree more with your post.  There are sooo many natural bodybuilders that for example have the same height and starting structure (when they first started bodybuilding), but through time due to genetics or different training or diet principles you will find significant differences in size, shape, and muscle mass.  Just like everything on you (ears, nose, lips etc) come in different sizes, so does muscle mass!  Its only natural - no pun intended!

[shiftedShapes]

I could not Disagree more with your post.  There are sooo many natural bodybuilders that for example have the same height and starting structure (when they first started bodybuilding), but through time due to genetics or different training or diet principles you will find significant differences in size, shape, and muscle mass.  Just like everything on you (ears, nose, lips etc) come in different sizes, so does muscle mass!  Its only natural - no pun intended!

I think he's saying most developed naturals.

nobody is trying to claim that chad mower has the same amount of muscle as brian whitacare

[BIG ACH]

Ok but compare Natural Pro bodybuilder Brian Whitacre: 


To Natural Pro Bodybuilder Doug Miller:



Both are AWESOME natural pros.

Both started off skinny bodybuilding (doug used to weight 120 lbs),  Both are about 5'8 or 5'9

Brian Whitace competes at about 168-170,  Doug Miller competes at about 185,  and there is a huge difference to heir physique, these pictures don't even do the comparison justice.

[Cee21Jay]

I think he's saying most developed naturals.

nobody is trying to claim that chad mower has the same amount of muscle as brian whitacare

Exactly.  Chad is an exception and Brian is probably an exception to the other extreme.
While reading Daddy's post I was thinking of  the natural with 2 yrs training in their 20's to 30's.  If they bodybuild they likely follow similiar training regimes and will produce similar muscle size after the 2 yrs. Most people who enter shows or train follow somewhat decent muscle building programs.  The teen will have to probably wait to hit his matured physique (in terms of muscle size) and will take more then 2 yrs.  So the environment (training) and the natural trainers genetics tend to produce fairly similar musculature.

  How many really large noses or really small noses do you see?  By this I mean the ones you stop and take notice of.  I am sure not many.  This seems to be the same for the natural trainers musculature as described by Daddy.

Thinking more on daddy's post, he touched deeply into evolutionary biology applied it to his philosophy on bb'ing and put it into layman's terms.  Reading some of his posts, his philosophies are good and worth considering.  I would not dismiss his views as It seems many do.

[Cee21Jay]

Ok but compare Natural Pro bodybuilder Brian Whitacre: 


To Natural Pro Bodybuilder Doug Miller:



Both are AWESOME natural pros.

Both started off skinny bodybuilding (doug used to weight 120 lbs),  Both are about 5'8 or 5'9

Brian Whitace competes at about 168-170,  Doug Miller competes at about 185,  and there is a huge difference to heir physique, these pictures don't even do the comparison justice.

I would have to see better comparisons to decide so I will not comment. You think both are lifetime natural (no steroids, pro hormones, GH etc.)?  I have never seen them before. Sometimes that one cycle can make a difference.

[BIG ACH]

Both are lifetime naturals. 

I've never spoken to Brian in person, only on message boards and online, but I do believe him when he says that he is 100% natural.

Doug Miller is an old friend, and I know he is 100% natural, not even Pro-hormones.  I tried to get him to take M1T back when it was still legal and I was taking it, but he wouldn't.   That picture of Doug does not do him any justice, he is much bigger than how he looks in this picture, I'll try to find you a better picture.  He hasn't competed in 2 years and right now he is just starting his diet and he weighs over 225 lbs with a Full visible six pack, there are pictures of him on the OCB message board just starting his diet, looks like a natural version of Jay Cutler, never cheats on his diet on or offseason!

[Cee21Jay]

Both are lifetime naturals. 

I've never spoken to Brian in person, only on message boards and online, but I do believe him when he says that he is 100% natural.

Doug Miller is an old friend, and I know he is 100% natural, not even Pro-hormones.  I tried to get him to take M1T back when it was still legal and I was taking it, but he wouldn't.   That picture of Doug does not do him any justice, he is much bigger than how he looks in this picture, I'll try to find you a better picture.  He hasn't competed in 2 years and right now he is just starting his diet and he weighs over 225 lbs with a Full visible six pack, there are pictures of him on the OCB message board just starting his diet, looks like a natural version of Jay Cutler, never cheats on his diet on or offseason!

Those stats make him sound like one of the exceptions, which shape shifter seemed to think he was. If you get a pic up I would like to see.  A guy at 225 abs 5'9 is pretty impressive.

[The Squadfather]

Those stats make him sound like one of the exceptions, which shape shifter seemed to think he was. If you get a pic up I would like to see.  A guy at 225 abs 5'9 is pretty impressive.

there are no naturals at 225 with sub 10 percent bodyfat at 5'9".

[Camel Jockey]

there are no naturals at 225 with sub 10 percent bodyfat at 5'9".

Max for a 5'9" would be 210-215 at that bodyfat.. And keep in mind water accounts for a lot and some dudes look much heavier than they actually are.

[Cee21Jay]

there are no naturals at 225 with sub 10 percent bodyfat at 5'9".

That is what I was thinking.  I have seen some strange stuff though.

[The Squadfather]

Max for a 5'9" would be 210-215 at that bodyfat.. And keep in mind water accounts for a lot and some dudes look much heavier than they actually are.

no not even 210-215, not with low bf levels, the guys who think they are 10 percent and below are almost always 15 percent.