If you had kids would you be ok with your bf / hubby getting a sportbike?

[trab]

Trab...for real....guns have been EXPLICITLY designed to kill at range. They have a distinctly militairy history and application.
Guns in domestic settings are bad news.

NO your being closed minded. Ive owned, and been around guns My Whole life, Im 47. So has EVERYONE in my farm community. Never been a murder here, how about your city with strict gun laws ?

[SamoanIrishman]

NO your being closed minded. Ive owned, and been around guns My Whole life, Im 47. So has EVERYONE in my farm community. Never been a murder here, how about your city with strict gun laws ?

nice.

[Always Sore]

Trab...for real....guns have been EXPLICITLY designed to kill at range. They have a distinctly militairy history and application.
Guns in domestic settings are bad news.

Not if your a female and can use one to stop a abuser before they pull a Benoit on you...

[SamoanIrishman]

Not if your a female and can use one to stop a abuser before they pull a Benoit on you...

Exactly why my wife is wanting a "house gun" for the safe in our room. She HATES guns but doesn't like feeling helpless when I travel for business for a 2-5 days. Took her to the range (using a small .380 to start) yesterday and signed her up for a woman only beginner handgun course for $65.  I told her, you don't have to carry it, don't have to like it, but I would like for you to at least know how one works in case you ever are in a situation where you may be forced to use one...she ended up liking it...not enough to carry, but at least feel safer when I'm not around. She digs the laser...lol

Most woundn't choose to carry, but to own one most can / should justify. If you have kids yourself or that visit...take the responsible precautions. You'd be suprised on how your dislike of guns goes away when someone in trying to break in your house and you're alone...especially if your a 115lbs female with kids in the house.

bro...don't make me laugh this early in the morning...it makes the soreness hurt worse...lol


hit legs so hard last night ...it took me forever to get out of bed, dressed ect...



...loving it.

[trab]

Pizza Cat picked a bad fight, GB is largly Pro Gun.

[Always Sore]

Exactly why my wife is wanting a "house gun" for the safe in our room. She HATES guns but doesn't like feeling helpless when I travel for business for a 2-5 days. Took her to the range (using a small .380 to start) yesterday and signed her up for a woman only beginner handgun course for $65.  I told her, you don't have to carry it, don't have to like it, but I would like for you to at least know how one works in case you ever are in a situation where you may be forced to use one...she ended up liking it...not enough to carry, but at least feel safer when I'm not around. She digs the laser...lol

Most woundn't choose to carry, but to own one most can / should justify. If you have kids yourself or that visit...take the responsible precautions. You'd be suprised on how your dislike of guns goes away when someone in trying to break in your house and you're alone...especially if your a 115lbs female with kids in the house.

bro...don't make me laugh this early in the morning...it makes the soreness hurt worse...lol


hit legs so hard last night ...it took me forever to get out of bed, dressed ect...



...loving it.

I would make a million bucks if I would just make a box that played the sound of a shotgun racking loudly and called it "the safe home defense weapon"...

As for the legs..yea I hate when I am sore and have to get out of the car after my morning drive to work and I look like a newborn calf...

[Deedee]

So true...my regular riding buddies all average 10+ years riding experience so we don't really get into stupid shit...except for on the track. Sportbikes have always had the reputation like AAS or Guns in that it's a death trap waiting to happen...when in fact a death is usually the result of someones carelessness.

My favorite quote about guns (I conceal carry) came from my dad. He said to this religious neighbor that had hardcore gun control issues and made comment about my dads bumper sticker (Guns don't kill people, people kill people) on his car was "Dave I respect your opinion but, your logic is wrong. So you're telling me that when you make a spelling error while writing you blame the pencil?"

Neighbor replied "Uh...that's not the same thing"...and walked off eventually. Funny watching my dad "own" the neighbors.

Don't get me wrong, I like guns very much, but I hate that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" motto.  You could easily say yes, people kill people, so they shouldn't have guns to make it easier. Even a pencil is dangerous in the wrong hands, so you wouldn't want an insane asylum inmate carrying one around to take someone's eye out.

[Al-Gebra]

the gun control debate is so culturally based. For people who grew up around guns, stricter gun control laws = someone saying they're going to ban cars.

[Always Sore]

Don't get me wrong, I like guns very much, but I hate that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" motto.  You could easily say yes, people kill people, so they shouldn't have guns to make it easier. Even a pencil is dangerous in the wrong hands, so you wouldn't want an insane asylum inmate carrying one around to take someone's eye out.

AHHH I thought this was a thread about motorcycles...

As far as gun's, like anything they are but the scapegoat for the problem. Benoit did not kill his family, roids did. The school failed little Johnny and thats why he can't read. The bar overserved redneck joe and thats why he crashed his car and killed those people. People want to place blame on everybody and everything but the people who made the choice. Guns are no different. There are laws in place and restrictions but yet people still die from guns. Take all the guns away and people die from bombs. Take them away and it's knives or sticks or hands. UNtil you change the people it does not help to change the tool.

[Deedee]

Really, I grew up around guns and I wish I could carry a derringer around in my prada bag. 

I just don't like hearing that particular motto, as I feel it's not a good argument. Guns are fine when owned by the average normal person, but dangerous in the hands of psychotics and just plain stupid people. Many, many people are either psychotic or stupid.

[Always Sore]

Really, I grew up around guns and I wish I could carry a derringer around in my prada bag. 

I just don't like hearing that particular motto, as I feel it's not a good argument. Guns are fine when owned by the average normal person, but dangerous in the hands of psychotics and just plain stupid people. Many, many people are either psychotic or stupid.

I agree and there is no way to know who is who or regulate them because at one time even the most insane person might have been thought sane. If you are going to commit evil nothing really is going to stop that..limit the scope maybe but stop no way.

[Al-Gebra]

Really, I grew up around guns and I wish I could carry a derringer around in my prada bag. 

I just don't like hearing that particular motto, as I feel it's not a good argument. Guns are fine when owned by the average normal person, but dangerous in the hands of psychotics and just plain stupid people. Many, many people are either psychotic or stupid.

you don't drive much, do you? 

4500 lbs of psychotic SUV can do a lot more damage than a .22 slug.

[Deedee]

you don't drive much, do you? 

4500 lbs of psychotic SUV can do a lot more damage than a .22 slug.

Lol... I've done plenty of driving in Vermont, land of the SUVs and "a firearm in every truck" philosophy.

I don't know... a .22 slug aimed at a particularly sensitive area could inflict a certain amount of pain and bleeding. 

[Always Sore]

Lol... I've done plenty of driving in Vermont, land of the SUVs and "a firearm in every truck" philosophy.

I don't know... a .22 slug aimed at a particularly sensitive area could inflict a certain amount of pain and bleeding. 

Some parts of the county that may be called foreplay...

[Deedee]

Some parts of the county that may be called foreplay...

Lol, I know.  It's scary!!!

[Samourai Pizzacat]

Pizza Cat picked a bad fight, GB is largly Pro Gun.

I don't care what the Grosso modo thinks, do you agree with this statement:

guns have been EXPLICITLY designed to kill at range. They have a distinctly militairy history and application.

This can't be denied, regardless of the tin cans you shoot on the farm. It's single most important purpose is to kill, not to injure, debilitate nor to scare


Would you agree that:

Leaving a gun in a household with children has an inherent EXTRA risk?

Easy accessibility to guns can turn fisticuffs in shootouts?

BTW: The netherlands vs US, the deaths by guns is about 20 times higher in the US.

Is the hypothesis that 200 milion guns in the country contribute to the high number of gun deaths so implausible?


When there's a distinct intent to murder then a murder will be commited regardless of gun control. However there's a lot of situations of people being volatile, impulsive or careless where the availibity of guns can dramatically increase the risk of death or injury.

[trab]

NO- or incomplete or flawed logic to each and every one Cat.

Come visit rural USA and some big USA cities. Compare to Holland is in no way applicable.
I like Holland, but the USA aint Holland.

[Samourai Pizzacat]

I'm not saying the whole of the US is gun crazy, I am convinced there is a correlation between the number of guns per capita and the number of gun related deaths. That simple, fewer guns means fewer guns ending up in the wrong hands or the wrong place; that's not flawed logic, that is basic chance.

[SamoanIrishman]

Would you agree that:

Leaving a gun in a household with children has an inherent EXTRA risk?

Easy accessibility to guns can turn fisticuffs in shootouts?

BTW: The netherlands vs US, the deaths by guns is about 20 times higher in the US.

Is the hypothesis that 200 milion guns in the country contribute to the high number of gun deaths so implausible?


When there's a distinct intent to murder then a murder will be commited regardless of gun control. However there's a lot of situations of people being volatile, impulsive or careless where the availibity of guns can dramatically increase the risk of death or injury.

1. If you're a responsible gun owner with a safe for your weapons and educated your children about the dangers of guns then no, there is not much more inherent risk.

2. Easy access to guns here is exactly why strict gun control is wrong...because then only the criminals have guns.

3. Shootouts? Well if you a well trained citizen then you know the laws covering displaying a weapon and deadly force. If you pull..you'd better be willing (and have a legal reason) to kill. Shootout happen when two hothead egotistical assholes that happen to have guns can't reason like an adult.

If I was approached by some dude that was screaming I would try to difuse the situation. If he touched me, I'd tell him I'm armed (or just pull depending on my feel of the situation) and he needs to let me leave. If he calls my bluff by advancing or some other aggressive act...well then I pull and order him to the ground and call the police. If from there he doesn't comply and he tries to go for something in his waist well....game over. I've done it before...I'd do it again.

Not being from the US I see your point. BUT...the crime here changes you...come live here and get mugged at gun point 2x (in a public downtown spot...not a back alley) or have someone break in your house or a serial rapist loose in the neighborhood and see if your opinion changes. It changed our minds.

[trab]

Ive had access to guns from time I was a small child. Soon as I  was old enough, I'd go cut our grocery
bill buy hunting in back of the house. Raise 4 kids on a painters pay and reconsider.

EVERYONE here owns guns! My collection would make Cat pee his pants.
NEVER been even a gun crime to my knowledge in my rural town, and it's growing like crazy.
 

[Samourai Pizzacat]

What then causes these high gun death rates? Enlighten me with some honest reflections...

[trab]

What then causes these high gun death rates? Enlighten me with some honest reflections...

Criminals killing people and each other - DRUGS.

[Always Sore]

What then causes these high gun death rates? Enlighten me with some honest reflections...

If you look up the figures when they talk about gun violence and teens and guns you find out the mean 13-19 years old. Most of the violence occures in the big cities on the east and west coast. In the middle where the popluation is less but guns per person is higher they have less violence. Most of the violence is drug related or gang related. The amount of innocent people having accidents or random killing is almost off the charts in terms of population. You could take the guns away but it would not stop the problem. it is much deeper and nobody wants to deal with it.

[trab]

If you look up the figures when they talk about gun violence and teens and guns you find out the mean 13-19 years old. Most of the violence occures in the big cities on the east and west coast. In the middle where the popluation is less but guns per person is higher they have less violence. Most of the violence is drug related or gang related. The amount of innocent people having accidents or random killing is almost off the charts in terms of population. You could take the guns away but it would not stop the problem. it is much deeper and nobody wants to deal with it.

There is NO solution. Maybe forced sterilization... I better stop there.

Cat needs to understand the Diff between Holland and the USA is immense in size and population.
Also, although the USA has significant Social Services... IT DONT BEGIN TO COMPARE W/ HOLLAND!!!!
EVERYONES basic needs are fullfilled in the Euro Utopia, No so here in the US Wilderness. There are Many w/ no hope in the inner cities and dealing Hard drugs if their only hope.  ALSO the USA's insane Drug war creates the profit motive for this. The Dutch are a bit more intelligent in this matter.
Next, There's no way you could even shoot my high Power
rifles anywhere I saw in Holland (and many other Euro Countries),   There is a Hell of a lot of unspoiled land where the
US ranchers/ farmers NEED high Power rifles. ALso we have wildlife overpopulation ,the deer need be thinned.

[SamoanIrishman]

ALso we have wildlife overpopulation ,the deer need be thinned.

Yeah...just like the dealers, burglers, robbers, child molesters, rapist...in the right hands,  guns are the chlorine in the DNA pool...