Author Topic: Nova and water retention  (Read 4565 times)

clayton green

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Nova and water retention
« on: June 30, 2007, 02:42:36 PM »
I recently read that nova helps eliminate water retention.  I knew that it was primarily used for gyno but did not realize that it also helps the body with water retention.  Would liquidex act in the same manner as nova.

Arnold jr

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2007, 02:51:58 PM »
It would work better.

clayton green

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2007, 02:56:34 PM »
That is what i am using.  I just did not know that it would also help with water retention, which is a plus if it does.

trab

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2007, 04:00:52 PM »
Ya, it takes quite a bit of Nolva to SEE results. Its also a short lived phenomenon IME.
40-60 ed has some effect.
Ive heard it works better in that regard for Females, but no experience.

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2007, 04:19:04 PM »
Ya, it takes quite a bit of Nolva to SEE results. Its also a short lived phenomenon IME.
40-60 ed has some effect.
Ive heard it works better in that regard for Females, but no experience.
i agree its never that much of a change for me. Aromasin or letro is best bet if cutting, While bulking i would continue the dex
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clayton green

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2007, 05:57:42 PM »
I will stay on the liquidex eod .5mg as that is all I have on hand.  I never got the itchy nips with the sust, test-prop or test-400.  But I suspect that the sust and test-400 were not up to par.  However, it only took me about 3 weeks to feel the effects of test-e and deca.

I seemed to have a leaner look while I was only on the test-400 and test-prop.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2007, 05:39:48 AM »
Arimidex which is an AI will do a much better job of controlling estrogenic sides.  Do you understand the difference between nolva which is a SERM and an AI?  Because they are entirely different.

Clayton do yourself a favor and do not make this more difficult than it is.  If you are experiencing sides then good for you you have legit gear this time.  Now start training your ass off, eat right, use your arimidex liquid (use .5mg ED), take your vitamins and enjoy.

Don't expect miracles with your physique from your first cycle, to get that true hard, muscular, well balanced look takes years, juice or no juice.  You would make the best progress if in a year or 2 you decided to do a BB show.  The diet down and transformation of your body can have lasting effects.

trab

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 06:49:23 AM »
Arimidex which is an AI will do a much better job of controlling estrogenic sides.  Do you understand the difference between nolva which is a SERM and an AI?  Because they are entirely different.

Clayton do yourself a favor and do not make this more difficult than it is.  If you are experiencing sides then good for you you have legit gear this time.  Now start training your ass off, eat right, use your arimidex liquid (use .5mg ED), take your vitamins and enjoy.

Don't expect miracles with your physique from your first cycle, to get that true hard, muscular, well balanced look takes years, juice or no juice.  You would make the best progress if in a year or 2 you decided to do a BB show.  The diet down and transformation of your body can have lasting effects.

Luv, do you get a real good rebound after that torturous contest diet when ya eat again? Hit it w/ the heavy androgen again?  Is it a legit mass gaining scheme IYO?

clayton green

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2007, 06:57:17 AM »
Arimidex which is an AI will do a much better job of controlling estrogenic sides.  Do you understand the difference between nolva which is a SERM and an AI?  Because they are entirely different.

Clayton do yourself a favor and do not make this more difficult than it is.  If you are experiencing sides then good for you you have legit gear this time.  Now start training your ass off, eat right, use your arimidex liquid (use .5mg ED), take your vitamins and enjoy.

Don't expect miracles with your physique from your first cycle, to get that true hard, muscular, well balanced look takes years, juice or no juice.  You would make the best progress if in a year or 2 you decided to do a BB show.  The diet down and transformation of your body can have lasting effects.

Luv2hurt,

I understand what AI is but not how nova differs from liquidex/a-dex.  As you have read I started this whole thing back in March and have been on beat gear to say the least until about 3 weeks ago.  I am finally glad this stuff is legit  and I am now showing strength imporvements.  I was merely making a subjective comment about how my body reacted to test-prop as opposed to the test-e and deca.  I appreciate all the information, education and encouragement you and the other members have given me over these months.  I did not realize how much info/ education I was lacking on AAS.

trab

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2007, 07:05:41 AM »
Nolva just BLOCK the estrogen receptor. Adex prevents the conversion of Test to estro in the 1st place.
Nolva is like a big old Lincon Mk IV  in a parking spot and a honda cant fit in.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2007, 07:33:45 AM »
Luv, do you get a real good rebound after that torturous contest diet when ya eat again? Hit it w/ the heavy androgen again?  Is it a legit mass gaining scheme IYO?

Yeah you do get a nice effect of the muscles loading back up after being kind of depleated.  The carbs and sodium fill you out nicely.  i have stayed pretty lean after that show, have another at the end of October.  Everyone says Im still pretty lean at a little over 200lbs right now.  I overdieted some for my last one, cause it had been a while and was not sure what to expect.  Figure I should be able to be 5-8 lbs heavier for this one in October.

As for the gear I have just been using test at about 500mg EW after the conest for a few months.  I recently have added deca and upped the test some.  A nagging elbow injury has been holding me back a little, but nothing to major....maybe I should go see freakfestMD that dude would have me fixed up in a hurry, kind of guy I would trust to cut me open. 

Freak, does the Anconeus get injured often?

trab

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2007, 08:16:39 AM »
Yeah you do get a nice effect of the muscles loading back up after being kind of depleated.  The carbs and sodium fill you out nicely.  i have stayed pretty lean after that show, have another at the end of October.  Everyone says Im still pretty lean at a little over 200lbs right now.  I overdieted some for my last one, cause it had been a while and was not sure what to expect.  Figure I should be able to be 5-8 lbs heavier for this one in October.

As for the gear I have just been using test at about 500mg EW after the conest for a few months.  I recently have added deca and upped the test some.  A nagging elbow injury has been holding me back a little, but nothing to major....maybe I should go see freakfestMD that dude would have me fixed up in a hurry, kind of guy I would trust to cut me open. 

Freak, does the Anconeus get injured often?

Ever tried acupuncture? V Good for some soft tissue stuff. It either works or it dont, dont wast more time & money if ya dont get some real noticeable relief in a day. Look for a older Asian practitioner that uses electro-accupuncture.
The elect helps exponentially. I asked my Lady how long they been using electric. Her - "Oh about since they discovered electricity".

gtbro1

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 09:23:38 AM »
I recently read that nova helps eliminate water retention.  I knew that it was primarily used for gyno but did not realize that it also helps the body with water retention.  Would liquidex act in the same manner as nova.


 

Arnold jr

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 10:32:46 AM »
Yeah you do get a nice effect of the muscles loading back up after being kind of depleated.  The carbs and sodium fill you out nicely.  i have stayed pretty lean after that show, have another at the end of October.  Everyone says Im still pretty lean at a little over 200lbs right now.  I overdieted some for my last one, cause it had been a while and was not sure what to expect.  Figure I should be able to be 5-8 lbs heavier for this one in October.

As for the gear I have just been using test at about 500mg EW after the conest for a few months.  I recently have added deca and upped the test some.  A nagging elbow injury has been holding me back a little, but nothing to major....maybe I should go see freakfestMD that dude would have me fixed up in a hurry, kind of guy I would trust to cut me open. 

Freak, does the Anconeus get injured often?
Did you take any time off after your last show or go straight back to it? Also, why do you think you over dieted? From the few pics I saw it looked pretty well point. Of course, I understand that seeing a few pics vs seeing the real deal in person can be 2 totally different things.

clayton green

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 10:35:24 AM »
I know nova was a typo but I though you knew what I meant(Nolva)!

gtbro1

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2007, 10:51:49 AM »
I know nova was a typo but I though you knew what I meant(Nolva)!

    ;D   I knew what ya ment.  :P

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2007, 12:54:46 PM »
Did you take any time off after your last show or go straight back to it? Also, why do you think you over dieted? From the few pics I saw it looked pretty well point. Of course, I understand that seeing a few pics vs seeing the real deal in person can be 2 totally different things.

No I did not take any time off, just dropped the dosage down, and no real time off from training.  I figured if I felt like training and I did, then that must be the right thing to do.  For the show I feel could have been  5-8 lbs heavier a little more filled out, I gave up size in my arms and lats to lose that last bit of fat.  I feel i was ready to compeate about 10 days early, I was a little fuller and very close to as ripped.  See I did not wanna leave my conditioning to chance so I made sure I was in shape, but using the diet I did and fat burners I was ready sooner than i thought.

Man to get that last bit of fat and water on the lower back off you really have to diet hard, but I was happy cause I had a nice christmas tree on stage, couple dudes in the crowd even yelled it out!  I really wish I could have had my BF done hydrostaticly to see where I was, but Im pretty confident I was below 5%

im really looking forward to the next show to use what i learned in the last, plus i will have even more confidence in my plan.

trab

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2007, 01:19:32 PM »
No I did not take any time off, just dropped the dosage down, and no real time off from training.  I figured if I felt like training and I did, then that must be the right thing to do.  For the show I feel could have been  5-8 lbs heavier a little more filled out, I gave up size in my arms and lats to lose that last bit of fat.  I feel i was ready to compeate about 10 days early, I was a little fuller and very close to as ripped.  See I did not wanna leave my conditioning to chance so I made sure I was in shape, but using the diet I did and fat burners I was ready sooner than i thought.

Man to get that last bit of fat and water on the lower back off you really have to diet hard, but I was happy cause I had a nice christmas tree on stage, couple dudes in the crowd even yelled it out!  I really wish I could have had my BF done hydrostaticly to see where I was, but Im pretty confident I was below 5%

im really looking forward to the next show to use what i learned in the last, plus i will have even more confidence in my plan.

Im surprised you've never used HGH. YOu'd rip to shreds and weigh more.
Small doses of it feel absolutely healthy IMO. I bet you'd burn fat like crazy, not that much Fat there to start.

Arnold jr

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2007, 01:32:45 PM »
No I did not take any time off, just dropped the dosage down, and no real time off from training.  I figured if I felt like training and I did, then that must be the right thing to do.  For the show I feel could have been  5-8 lbs heavier a little more filled out, I gave up size in my arms and lats to lose that last bit of fat.  I feel i was ready to compeate about 10 days early, I was a little fuller and very close to as ripped.  See I did not wanna leave my conditioning to chance so I made sure I was in shape, but using the diet I did and fat burners I was ready sooner than i thought.



I think I'll most likely take a wk off once I'm done...I haven't had a wk off in over a yr. In one sense it's tempting to just keep going knowing the positive growth you'll get, but knowing I need a little rest I think will be a little more on the safe side of things...plus I want to go on vacation, eat, sleep, go to the beach, not look at a clock, eat when I want.

Man to get that last bit of fat and water on the lower back off you really have to diet hard, but I was happy cause I had a nice christmas tree on stage, couple dudes in the crowd even yelled it out!  I really wish I could have had my BF done hydrostaticly to see where I was, but Im pretty confident I was below 5%
Below 5%...I don't think this is even questionable.


im really looking forward to the next show to use what i learned in the last, plus i will have even more confidence in my plan.
What kind of changes if any have you made from the one you just did?

clayton green

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2007, 01:37:46 PM »
    ;D   I knew what ya ment.  :P

Just giving a newbie a hard time!! ::)

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2007, 05:41:32 PM »
I think I'll most likely take a wk off once I'm done...I haven't had a wk off in over a yr. In one sense it's tempting to just keep going knowing the positive growth you'll get, but knowing I need a little rest I think will be a little more on the safe side of things...plus I want to go on vacation, eat, sleep, go to the beach, not look at a clock, eat when I want.
Below 5%...I don't think this is even questionable.
What kind of changes if any have you made from the one you just did?

Yeah I hear you a vacation just chilling and eating, laying around maybe having a beer or 2....sounds real good. 

I will have to admit I found the diet pretty easy, using the high protien, moderate to high fats, way low carb diet was a brezze.  Once into ketosis it is very easy, tons of energy, not always hungry, plenty of food and no cravings for the bad stuff.  I stayed a little too lean after the show, cause it was so fun being ripped and after about 2 more months of that my system ran down some.  I stayed out late one night to see a show and was thrown off my routine.  Then with minimal sleep went in the gym the next morning and hit a hard leg session.  That was it my immune system and CNS said enough and I got sick, that was my bodys way of stopping me, making me take a break.

I dont think I will change much for this next one, I will just diet for a shorter time, maybe eat a few more calories, which I never count.  I may throw a higher carb day in there once a week or so.  But we will see, from what I can tell time on the diet is most important.  You may have heard of that cat Disgusted on here, his diet is very similar to Daves but he does not add carbs or cut the water.  I found that on very low carbs, low sodium you can drink tons of water and still be very dry and full.  I could not beleive how vascular and dry I was after eating 2 NY strip steaks, 15 grams of sweet potato, asparagus and drinking a gallon and a half of crystal lite one night.

Arnold jr

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2007, 06:45:51 PM »
Yeah I hear you a vacation just chilling and eating, laying around maybe having a beer or 2....sounds real good.
Yeah it sounds good...I've just got to figure out where I want to go.


 
I will have to admit I found the diet pretty easy, using the high protien, moderate to high fats, way low carb diet was a brezze.  Once into ketosis it is very easy, tons of energy, not always hungry, plenty of food and no cravings for the bad stuff.  I stayed a little too lean after the show, cause it was so fun being ripped and after about 2 more months of that my system ran down some.  I stayed out late one night to see a show and was thrown off my routine.  Then with minimal sleep went in the gym the next morning and hit a hard leg session.  That was it my immune system and CNS said enough and I got sick, that was my bodys way of stopping me, making me take a break.
For myself concerning energy on a keto diet, I'm not dragging but I wouldn't say that I'm full of high energy either. It's been more of a steady state, nice and smooth, no crashes, no ups and downs with one exception. Every Saturday after the 1 cheat meal, the next day I feel phenomenal, but by Monday it all levels back out to normal.

The getting sick thing, I had a similar thing happen a few yrs back. I stayed out one night until 5 in the morning...this was not at all a regular thing, but I let myself get swayed by the ever so alluring female species. The next day at the gym I felt horrible, when I got home that night I just shut down and threw my guts up...I stayed in bed all the next day and it took a couple more days to feel normal again. I had, had my BF checked 2 wks before that and was at 6%, so I was down there and my body just absolutely could not handle the abuse of that long late night.


I dont think I will change much for this next one, I will just diet for a shorter time, maybe eat a few more calories, which I never count.  I may throw a higher carb day in there once a week or so.  But we will see, from what I can tell time on the diet is most important.  You may have heard of that cat Disgusted on here, his diet is very similar to Daves but he does not add carbs or cut the water.  I found that on very low carbs, low sodium you can drink tons of water and still be very dry and full.  I could not beleive how vascular and dry I was after eating 2 NY strip steaks, 15 grams of sweet potato, asparagus and drinking a gallon and a half of crystal lite one night.
Just remember, if you throw in a high carb day you will be throwing yourself out of ketosis and it will take 3-5 days do get back into it. My old training partner had a show he just did this past June and he followed a diet very similar to Dave's diet except for the fact that he had a high carb re-feed day 1x every 5 days. This ended up being a huge mistake, his energy levels were all over the place, and he was constantly crashing and he payed for it. He's done several shows but he did not come in as well as he's capeable...he'd have been better off following his old dieting method of carb cycling.

BTW, for those wondering, 1 cheat meal is not enough to throw you out of ketosis...assuming it's only 1x per wk.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2007, 07:59:55 PM »
Yeah it sounds good...I've just got to figure out where I want to go.


  For myself concerning energy on a keto diet, I'm not dragging but I wouldn't say that I'm full of high energy either. It's been more of a steady state, nice and smooth, no crashes, no ups and downs with one exception. Every Saturday after the 1 cheat meal, the next day I feel phenomenal, but by Monday it all levels back out to normal.

The getting sick thing, I had a similar thing happen a few yrs back. I stayed out one night until 5 in the morning...this was not at all a regular thing, but I let myself get swayed by the ever so alluring female species. The next day at the gym I felt horrible, when I got home that night I just shut down and threw my guts up...I stayed in bed all the next day and it took a couple more days to feel normal again. I had, had my BF checked 2 wks before that and was at 6%, so I was down there and my body just absolutely could not handle the abuse of that long late night.

Just remember, if you throw in a high carb day you will be throwing yourself out of ketosis and it will take 3-5 days do get back into it. My old training partner had a show he just did this past June and he followed a diet very similar to Dave's diet except for the fact that he had a high carb re-feed day 1x every 5 days. This ended up being a huge mistake, his energy levels were all over the place, and he was constantly crashing and he payed for it. He's done several shows but he did not come in as well as he's capeable...he'd have been better off following his old dieting method of carb cycling.

BTW, for those wondering, 1 cheat meal is not enough to throw you out of ketosis...assuming it's only 1x per wk.

Yeah I think a lot of my extra energy was from the clen I was using, stuff had me racing, but in a good way not like caffine...I have to say I liked the way i felt on clen.

That story about you getting sick is almost exactly like happened to me, puking my guts out also....Im very sure also that the long, late night was what pushed me over the edge, I could feel it coming about 3am that night...darn women  :D

I was also unsure about the carb day as I have heard it is like taking a few steps back in your prep like you have said. 

Is not the cheat meal basicaly a high carb day?  I was thinking for the carb up day would not really be that big maybe 150g that day?

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2007, 08:32:12 PM »
Arimidex which is an AI will do a much better job of controlling estrogenic sides.  Do you understand the difference between nolva which is a SERM and an AI?  Because they are entirely different.

Clayton do yourself a favor and do not make this more difficult than it is.  If you are experiencing sides then good for you you have legit gear this time.  Now start training your ass off, eat right, use your arimidex liquid (use .5mg ED), take your vitamins and enjoy.

Don't expect miracles with your physique from your first cycle, to get that true hard, muscular, well balanced look takes years, juice or no juice.  You would make the best progress if in a year or 2 you decided to do a BB show.  The diet down and transformation of your body can have lasting effects.

I also agree that Clayton is making this alot more difficult than it really is.

It's not like we're talking megadosages here.

He needs consistency and dedication.



DIV
I'm a ghost in these killing fields...

Arnold jr

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Re: Nova and water retention
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2007, 09:13:25 PM »


Is not the cheat meal basicaly a high carb day?  I was thinking for the carb up day would not really be that big maybe 150g that day?

Here's how I understand it.

A complete cheat day defeats the purpose of a keto diet because it takes several days to reach ketosis again. 1 meal of carbs will not do this, it simply shocks the body. But after continues meals of carbs, the body then becomes reacustomed to carbs and therefore starts to rely on them as their sole energy source again. With the 1 cheat meal all you're doing is refueling your glycogen stores, you're not switching your bodies primary energy source from fats to carbs. Even if you eat more carbs then needed to refuel your stores, at that point after 1 meal the body is still not accustomed to using carbs as energy again...at least not as its primary source. As you know, the human body does not want to burn fat (homeostasis) and once ketosis is left in the dust it will revert back to its standard form of energy (carbs).

BTW, cheat meals should be discontinued completely at least 4wks out from a show.