Stopping deca

[clayton green]

Thanks Trab,

So would you break up the te into two inject a week, perhaps 2cc one day and maybe the other cc a couple days later  ran with deca.  If that  is the case I will need to do another inject of the deca since my deca is 300 mg and I am running 450 of that a week.  Can you give me a recommended inject schedule for 750 te per week and 450 deca per week?

Also, I was doing quite a bit of volume and reps the last several months but the past 2-3 weeks I have switched back to about 5-6 total sets for pretty much all body parts with a rep range of 6-10.  When I was not on gear I made really great gains on 5x5 routine, 1 exercise per body part.  I wanted to see how that goes for a while. 

I measured myself in March before going on the gear and again today to see if I had made any significant size gains.  however, the only gains  I  have made is on my thights, everything else has remained the same.  One of the guys at the gym says that perhaps my body composition has changed and that I have lost some body fat and that is  why I look bigger although my body parts are no bigger than before.

Any thoughs?

[trab]

If I was pulling it out of Multidose vials, I'd split the dose exactly in 1/2 every 3rd day.
If amps or single serving style, I'd get as close as possible.

To me, the longer acting the product, the less critical of splitting it up.
Deca is a lot longer acting than Enanthate.

375E + 225D work fine.

Go to a larger hypo? YOu pretty big guy. Glutes can take 4cc easy. Unless it's that real painfull stuff.

[clayton green]

Trab,

I have the multi dose vial, 10mg.  So you would suggest 375 test-e and 225 deca, every third day, is that correct. 

I was doing 3cc's (750 mg in one glute and the 450 deca 1.5 cc in the other but one of the guys says that was too much oil in one site for absorption and that  I would be predisposing myself to possible cysts.

[trab]

Trab,

I have the multi dose vial, 10mg.  So you would suggest 375 test-e and 225 deca, every third day, is that correct. 

I was doing 3cc's (750 mg in one glute and the 450 deca 1.5 cc in the other but one of the guys says that was too much oil in one site for absorption and that  I would be predisposing myself to possible cysts.

Ya I'd try and split it 1/2 like that as long as possible.. My hips glutes are all that big enough to hit 3-4cc.
3 would be going overboard on my delts.
If you'r rotating them around, so that your only hiting that hip/ glue every 3rd week, is what I try.
Thats what I try to do, not hit it more than 2  1/2 weeks or so in same spot with more than 2-3 cc.
May have to break down to some smaller ones here and there.

I go in the back of glute in a couple spots, reaching around back, go in the HIP dead sideways, side delt, a bit more to the rear delt also, horseshoe head of Tri w/ 1cc. Back of Tri 1cc...

[clayton green]

I have been rotating as well but I will only do 1cc in quads, delts and traps (only tried a couple of times but did not mind it).  I also go in from the side on the glutes but ocassionaly I have gone in  straight with the help of my wife directing the syringe.  She can't get the courage to inject it for me though but will direct me to the correct location and apply pressure after I remove it until I can put the syringe down.

I have one 10cc vial of deca left and several test-e vials, which I want to run out until the end of august or 1st of sept.   Do you think I should back the deca down to 300 a week or just run it 45o mg week.  If I run it at 450 mg a week it will get me 6 weeks with 1cc left over (300mg) I am doing 750mg on the test-e.


Trab,

have you ever extended your cycle and/or ran them for 6 months or longer?  I like the feeling, strength and sexual upsides and am not looking forward to going off.  I have read where Arnold Schwartznegger would  go on 20 weeks cycles, bridge another short 6 weeks cycle and go back on his 20 week cycle.

Can someone stay on for a year and still make relatively good gains.  I am getting my blood work and prostrate checked next week and will be letting the doc know what I am do so hopefully I can get monitored more often.

[DIVISION]

I have read where Arnold Schwartznegger would  go on 20 weeks cycles, bridge another short 6 weeks cycle and go back on his 20 week cycle.

Don't be naive, Clayton.

Arnold is half full of shit, and there's alot of evidence out there to back that up.

I don't really take any pro at his word when it comes to AAS usage.

Bridging, as it is commonly held as a cycle strategy is flawed and pointless.

As long as you are on AAS, lessening the load doesn't affect HPTA or cause any less of a rebound effect when coming off.

If you are on, finish your cycle as it was meant to be because the time you are taking to "bridge" is time you could be finishing up your cycle, starting on PCT.



DIV

[clayton green]

For the majority of my 29 years of trainging I fell prey to the so called natural lifting routines of the body builders portrayed in the magazines.  Needless to say, I spent my best/younger years overtraining, as I was totally natural.  It has only been the last couple of years that I realized that less is better when it comes to training volume, sets, reps, etc.  Also, I will be 46 next month.

I have busted my ass longer in the gym  then a lot of guy have been alive.  Although, people notice that  I have solid weight  training background, it not the same if I would have been on gear the last 10-15 years.  Now that I have gotten a taste of what gear and the proper diet can yield, I LOVE it.  It makes all the time, effort, sacrifices and hard work over the years worthwhile. 

I know that the safe thing to do is cycle the gear.  But being my age, I now want to look the best I can for as long as I can.  So I was asking if anyone truthfully has been on AAS non-stop for year without any adverse effects.  I know that a lot of AAS users do not follow the protocol time on = time off.

[trab]

I think I went almost 18 mo and came off and had normal Total test levels in about 8 weeks.
I'd gone as high as 1500 sus + prolly 1000TE + 200-400 deca and some orals in there.
Now, a LONG period at the end was on  HRT type doses.
 Way Down to 175-200 TE every 5 days to week or so.
Next down to like 50 Tprop & or stan at the verry end.

I ALLWAYS have had Low Free Test levels, even before ever using aas. I allways do when off to.
I think obscene industrial chem exposure and heat stroke may play a part there.

Anyway, Ive come off many times over the years, and I Personaly have a WAY better time tappering the test, then going to Tprop, then Stan.  I crash hard and nasty off dumping even a 500-600 Te course cold.
I'm Done with that. At this point I just run low hrt allways. Enough to kill/block out any cortisol cascade.

I honestly had hardly any problem (comparibly) dropping that long cycle the way I did even though I been close to 3000mg. (little hard to say w/ sus how much is active where/when)

I mean you got to expect to not keep all the musclle and be reved, but  I'd rather stay on longer and pull the plug on it like I do, than just drop a load thats realy built up to a 800-1000 type blood level over weeks and weeks.   

[clayton green]

I believe you and I are around the same age, I am 46.  That is why I like your advice because it is very easy for someone 20 years younger who has not walked in our shoes nor have spent as many back breakin hard ass worksouts for such a long time.  I mean no disrespect to any of  the younger members  who have been so generous setting  me straight  since  I am a newbie. It is not like I am 18 and only been trainig for 8 months and want to go on my first cycle. I have a very solid base as I even did some powerlifting in my to younger years.  It is just nice to finally see some real noticible results.

If I were to continue AAS after coming off of test-e and deca, what gear and md would you recommend?  I won't reach that beach  look this  year but that is what I am shooting fornext year.  My weight is increasing it seems like every day and I am up to 212 after about 5 weeks of the current cycle, which I will run through August.


Thanks

[trab]

I believe you and I are around the same age, I am 46.  That is why I like your advice because it is very easy for someone 20 years younger who has not walked in our shoes nor have spent as many back breakin hard ass worksouts for such a long time.  I mean no disrespect to any of  the younger members  who have been so generous setting  me straight  since  I am a newbie. It is not like I am 18 and only been trainig for 8 months and want to go on my first cycle. I have a very solid base as I even did some powerlifting in my to younger years.  It is just nice to finally see some real noticible results.

If I were to continue AAS after coming off of test-e and deca, what gear and md would you recommend?  I won't reach that beach  look this  year but that is what I am shooting fornext year.  My weight is increasing it seems like every day and I am up to 212 after about 5 weeks of the current cycle, which I will run through August.


Thanks

The thing about steroids,,esp at 1st is the gains are so fast they can be outright mindblowing.
YOur not a small guy. You might just want to bring the BF and water down to get a thin skin look after all the androgen. I mean dont throw all the mass you put on away, but harden it up.

If you ride athat androgen wet look for some months for all its worth, till it peeters out, then cut back test dose like I described and switch to "anabolics" Maybee a month of Tprop 1st (100-50eod ought to run the machine).

Might want to start looking for Stan (tabs and inj) var, primo  (t-bol reported good here to).

A lot of guys lose more solid BW than was need be coming off IMO. Switching to this less supressive stuff at
low enough doses to keep from crash and keep up intense workouts, can harden it up.

WHen you finally come off is a critical time IMO. I cut back volume, intensity and DURATION (TIME LENGTH)
SERIOUSLY.  I'd just hit the gym a couple time in a week with the major muscle groups. Very few sets.


** If its a THIN SKIN RIPPED LOOK YOU WANT, that's a combination of genetics and water retention and diet and cardio. Cardio is catabolic, do the minimun to get what you want. Myself I got paperthin skin to start. It talkes a lot of test and anapolon and deca & forced feeding to even lose abs.

Switching to them anabolics will drop a lot of puffy look by itself, Letro is reported to help when on the androgen.

Clen? ECA? simple OTC appetite supressants if need?   CARDIO & cut back carbs to minimum...

If your on a long run,  I'd do a HCG vial right before switch to anabolics. 1000iu every 2-5th.
HCG can, used last, do a step backward deal w/ supression. It makes a lot of estro at the right dose.

ALL this shit can get a little carried away.. I'd say a 6month run or so and ease into the stuff that dont stress the body so hard is prudent.  At your age, you come off, even with testo levels midrange norm, you may want to use hrt doses.  I wouldnt advise so if you feel fine after a few weeks.
Like I said my Total Test can run high norm, but my free test levels allways very low.  I feel better on a low dose minimum.  Pushing too hard too long is hard on the machine.

[clayton green]

Trab,

1). Can you give me a suggested  week by week or month by month anabolic schedule?  You are very knowledgable about anabolics and at this juncture with my AAS I need more layman terms and routines. I would like to run the aas out to the end of next summer, not saying that I want to keep the androngenic high just keep or harden what I have as you said.


2).  I want to run out the test-e and deca.  For some reason my sex life was great on test-e, prop and deca( 300mg) but the last two weeks I up the dosage of deca to 450 mg and things are  working as  they were. I don't know if it is the deca or something else.  but maybe I should drop the deca  back to 300mg what do you think?

3).  I will be ordering some gear soon so if you can give me a layman's recommendation as to what to run I would appreciate it.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  BTW, for some reason, I really like the test-prop and the injects don't seem to bother me.

[Rimbaud]

Trab,

1). Can you give me a suggested  week by week or month by month anabolic schedule?  You are very knowledgable about anabolics and at this juncture with my AAS I need more layman terms and routines. I would like to run the aas out to the end of next summer, not saying that I want to keep the androngenic high just keep or harden what I have as you said.


2).  I want to run out the test-e and deca.  For some reason my sex life was great on test-e, prop and deca( 300mg) but the last two weeks I up the dosage of deca to 450 mg and things are  working as  they were. I don't know if it is the deca or something else.  but maybe I should drop the deca  back to 300mg what do you think?

3).  I will be ordering some gear soon so if you can give me a layman's recommendation as to what to run I would appreciate it.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  BTW, for some reason, I really like the test-prop and the injects don't seem to bother me.

Lucky you. 

[Rimbaud]

3).  I will be ordering some gear soon so if you can give me a layman's recommendation as to what to run I would appreciate it.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  BTW, for some reason, I really like the test-prop and the injects don't seem to bother me.

I say you should get yourself some Tbol for your next cycle. I love that stuff.

[trab]

I say you should get yourself some Tbol for your next cycle. I love that stuff.

That stuff sounds interssting, seem like be good even after droping test, or w/ low dose TP.
Bailing out of those heavy androgens awhile seem to help recovery.
If you can do that and keep up intense workouts and sex drive and eat.

[Rimbaud]

That stuff sounds interssting, seem like be good even after droping test, or w/ low dose TP.
Bailing out of those heavy androgens awhile seem to help recovery.
If you can do that and keep up intense workouts and sex drive and eat.

Do it. You'll love it.

[clayton green]

I hate asking but what is " tp".  I have yet to master all the acroymns on this Board!

Anyway, can you suggest a AAS cycle for  me after going off the e, and deca?  Something that perhaps that will run me through next summer.

[trab]

I hate asking but what is " tp".  I have yet to master all the acroymns on this Board!

Anyway, can you suggest a AAS cycle for  me after going off the e, and deca?  Something that perhaps that will run me through next summer.

Did I type it? (tp) I transpose a lot of shit. Too much spraying solvents some times I dont proof read real carefull.  Prolly ment TestPropionate

As far as exact doses, I really dont like to lay a cookbook out, it also is real dependant on what you can get.
After switching over to TestProp, I can personaly run on about 50-100 eod. I start w/ 50 as I'd still have some long acting Test burning off, then move into 100 (you kind of big, may try up to 150,200eod) then I again tapper a back little to
50 at end of the vial. I'f your going to do that, step it down gradually relative to how high you went.
Then Stan after Tprop. Very Same Program. Now- I NEVER had any sex issues here on STAN ONLY, if I did - I'd not do it!
Could throw var 5-10mg  3-4x ed  or Primo 5-10 3-4x ed. Primo dont rev me at all, I can take it at bedtime.

Tbol - Oral Turinabol (chlordehydroMETHYLtestos terone)  sound interesting, as do anything that came out of
E. Germanys  State Sponsored sports doping does.
If I had some..
I'd try some w/ the Tprop starting At 10ed and gradually increasing ,seeing how it felt. A guy can ALLWays increase a dose.
Taking it back out is another thing.

[clayton green]

Would you only run one multi vial of the test-P or perhaps runs it for a specified amount of weeks, i.e, 8-12?  then switch to stanzol and  run it for the same, etc.

Have you ever had any problems with deca and sex?  I was running 300mg a week with the 750 test-e with no problems but when I switched to 450mg week I have been running into trouble.  However, i also stopped the test-p when I increased the deca because I ran out.  I will be getting some test-P soon and plan to run that with the test-e.

[trab]

Would you only run one multi vial of the test-P or perhaps runs it for a specified amount of weeks, i.e, 8-12?  then switch to stanzol and  run it for the same, etc.

Have you ever had any problems with deca and sex?  I was running 300mg a week with the 750 test-e with no problems but when I switched to 450mg week I have been running into trouble.  However, i also stopped the test-p when I increased the deca because I ran out.  I will be getting some test-P soon and plan to run that with the test-e.

Deca can be flaky stuff re sex, PMS like irrational temper too.
  Not only dose, but another compound moved around/withdrawln after Nat test production been comprimised can be the problem.
400 or less deca seem the way to go for me. See, that fast acting Tp went away and bingo, instant limp? huh?
Then your Ms is like WTF! He was just a raging bull... is he cheating?

ALL the elaborate cycle dose plans in the world dont change 1 thing - stuff mostly comes in 10cc vials!
Planning around that is essential unless you can walk down the block and score at will.
10cc @ 100mg/ml X eod = 20 day run. You could squeeze a couple extra shots out if 2-3 shots went 50mg at logical points like I pointed out. Stretching all you can out this stuff aint a bad theory.
You might need more'n 100mg at a whack? I dont know, your the one who do.

[clayton green]

I now have a good domestic source and can get the test-p and other items within 4-7 days.  I will be dropping the deca back to 300mg a week into two injects as you suggested one every 3rd day and I hope the sex life goes back to normal again.

I know you don't like specfying a specific AAS routine but if you have the time and could give me a template for when I go off the test-e and deca?

week 1-24 test-P 150mg eod
week1-24  (                      )