Religion causes Anxiety

[IrishMuscle84]

Ive suffered from reallly really bad anxiety, panic attacks, depression, over the past few years. Especially at night, trying to get too sleep, as soon as i would close my eyes, It felt like there was no gravity and i was being thrown into hell. Not fun at all. I guess alot of people that suffer from the anxiety and panic attack, is very common for them to get the same thoughts of thier being no gravity, and being thrown into hell, from what the doc was telling me when i was in the crazy house. All that talk about we should be GOD-FEARING, and be afraid, the way i look it that is, if you scare the living shit out of someone and make them scared out of thier minds, you can easily control them and make them believe anything. If god is sooo loving, and TRULY TRULY cares for us, then why would he want us too be afraid of him??

[OzmO]

Ive suffered from reallly really bad anxiety, panic attacks, depression, over the past few years. Especially at night, trying to get too sleep, as soon as i would close my eyes, It felt like there was no gravity and i was being thrown into hell. Not fun at all. I guess alot of people that suffer from the anxiety and panic attack, is very common for them to get the same thoughts of thier being no gravity, and being thrown into hell, from what the doc was telling me when i was in the crazy house. All that talk about we should be GOD-FEARING, and be afraid, the way i look it that is, if you scare the living shit out of someone and make them scared out of thier minds, you can easily control them and make them believe anything. If god is sooo loving, and TRULY TRULY cares for us, then why would he want us too be afraid of him??

Because religion wants to control and keep you fearful by telling what you can and can't do under threat of Gods wrath.  In the OT god had 3000 men executed for not worshipping the way he oredered them to.  Is that really a Godly thing to do?  It's manly thing to do using god as an excuse to justify murder IMO.

  Follow you heart...it's where God is.  Not some man made story book called the word of God.

[Dos Equis]

I disagree.  There is nothing wrong with God or God's word.  It's men who are the problem.  Follow God's word, but not men.   

[columbusdude82]

Dude, I feel for you. I am a recovering ex-Catholic. Here's a perspective that might (or might not) help you.

Remember that these "holy" books were only written very recently in the history of mankind. Homo Sapiens (our species) has been around for at least 100,000 years, and even if you go back a few million years, you will find primitive man (Homo Erectus, for instance) roaming the plains of Africa. Over the course of evolutionary time, our brains became larger and larger, and we began to search for explanations for the world around us. We were no longer content to be dealt the same cards as the other animals; we wanted to know why!

Early man invented religion as a means of explaining his surroundings, because he didn't have access to modern science. It is certain that there were many religions that lived and died before the invention of writing. We only have Judaism and Christianity because they were practiced after the invention of writing, so we have records of their early books.

Luckily for you, you live at a time when we no longer need a "God hypothesis" to explain anything. Science can explain lots of things, and if there is anything science can't explain yet, there is no reason to believe that Iron Age mythology can.

[loco]

In the OT god had 3000 men executed for not worshipping the way he oredered them to.  Is that really a Godly thing to do?  It's manly thing to do using god as an excuse to justify murder IMO.

OzmO,
Are you going to keep bringing this up, or are you going to continue our discussion?

Thanks OzmO, but I am well aware of what the word murder means.
  
Why?  Because you said so?  You are still not giving any valid reasons.
  
Hitler was an evil dictator that gave people no choice.  These 3000 men had a choice.  You are taking away their freedom to choose when you say that they should not have chosen to submit to that law and that they should not have chosen to accept the punishment for breaking it.  Who are you to tell them what they should or should not accept as punishment for breaking the law?  It is their nation, their choice. You sound like a dictator if you insist on this.
  
Oh, so now it is capital punishment if it is one man, but murder if it is two, three, three hundred, three thousand?  It's murder if it is not lethal injection?  By they way, I read the other day that the guy who came up with lethal injection admitted that it is a torturous, slow, painful death.  They are looking into changing it.
  
One, it is not a point.  This is capital punishment.  Two, I already explained to you that anger or no anger, jealousy or no jealousy, whether it was God or Moses, this is not murder because these men chose to submit to this law, chose to accept death as the punishment for breaking it, and chose to break it later.
  
It doesn't matter?  We are not talking about 12% of the people and we are not talking about flying pigs.  We are talking about a nation submitting to a law and accepting death as the punishment for breaking it.  It does matter.  Are you saying that a nation is not free to choose to submit to laws and to choose to accept death as the punisment for breaking those laws?  
  
Why is it evil and why is it wrong?  Because you say so?  We can argue whether or not it is indicative of the wisdom of God that is shown through so much of the Bible.  But that is still not what we are discussing here.  The discussion is about whether or not putting to death these 3000 men was murder or not.  It is not murder because they all chose to submit to the law, to obey it, and they chose to accept death as the punishment for breaking it.  Then, they decided to break it.  So they were put to death as they had chosen earlier to be punished for breaking the law that they had chosen to submit to.

Follow you heart...it's where God is.  Not some man made story book called the word of God.

Murderers, rapists, and pedophiles follow their hearts too.

Do not follow your heart, and do not follow religions, but follow the word of God.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things
       and beyond cure.
       Who can understand it?

[OzmO]

OzmO,
Are you going to keep bringing this up, or are you going to continue our discussion?
Murderers, rapists, and pedophiles follow their hearts too.

Do not follow your heart, and do not follow religions, but follow the word of God.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things
       and beyond cure.
       Who can understand it?

Murderers, rapists, and pedophiles for the most parts do not follow their hearts they are controlled and influenced by fear.

I have confidence ans faith in myself i don't need a book to tell me how to think and or act.  Unfortunately many weak minded people do and in that religion and the bible has it's place.

and to continue the discussion is pointless:

You support the mass murder of 3000 men.  You don't think it's murder because they were warned.  In this day in age it would be considered mass murder, warning or not, law or not.....how ever  righteous you are.... it is what it is:   Moses acting on anger and naming GOD as the reason.  You don't run a blade into someone's body, 3000 of them because they lost their way.   It's barbaric murder and those who think it's justified are the same ones who's indifference shields their eyes and hearts to much of the tragedy in the world that's brought about in the name of religion.


P.S.:

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things
       and beyond cure.
       Who can understand it?

This is God talking?   

[loco]

Murderers, rapists, and pedophiles for the most parts do not follow their hearts they are controlled and influenced by fear.

What?  No they are not.  They follow their heart's desires.

Unfortunately many weak minded people do and in that religion and the bible has it's place.

So now I'm weak minded and you are strong minded?  Okay.

and to continue the discussion is pointless:

You support the mass murder of 3000 men.  You don't think it's murder because they were warned.  In this day in age it would be considered mass murder, warning or not, law or not.....how ever  righteous you are.... it is what it is:   Moses acting on anger and naming GOD as the reason.  You don't run a blade into someone's body, 3000 of them because they lost their way.   It's barbaric murder and those who think it's justified are the same ones who's indifference shields their eyes and hearts to much of the tragedy in the world that's brought about in the name of religion.

I showed you that it is not murder, but you will not admit that you are wrong.  And I do not support the mass murder of anyone, so please do not put words in my mouth.  And it is not because they were warned that I believe that it is not murder.  It is not murder because they chose to accept death as the punishment for breaking the law.  Then, they chose to break it.  And if I don't believe that it is murder, how can you say that I support mass murder?

P.S.:

This is God talking?   

Yes.

[OzmO]

What?  No they are not.  They follow their heart's desires.

No they do not.  It's fear based, fear motivated. All violent acts are rooted in fear.

So now I'm weak minded and you are strong minded?  Okay.

Did i say that loco?   I truly believe you are not weak minded.   Not everyone who subscribes to this stuff is weak minded.  But those who cannot control themselves and need to be told what's right and wrong are.

I showed you that it is not murder, but you will not admit that you are wrong.  And I do not support the mass murder of anyone, so please do not put words in my mouth.  And it is not because they were warned that I believe that it is not murder.  It is not murder because they chose to accept death as the punishment for breaking the law.  Then, they chose to break it.  And if I don't believe that it is murder, how can you say that I support mass murder?

Loco, it's a very fine line whether it's murder or not.  Fact is, had this happened today it would be considered murder.   And it probably would be then too, but then again history is written by the victors.....You do support murder.  If God said do not worship me in that way and they decided to do so....you do support the killing, cutting stabbing, mutilating of 3000 men, fathers, sons  for that transgression because unless you do, then the Bible isn't the WOG and your whole world crumbles from there because you don't have the confidence in yourself, GOD's creation, to chose what's right or wrong.....from your heart.

And i don;t need to admit I'm wrong.   Did you not learn any compassion from Jesus?  Your hardened righteous heart is swimming in the blood of those victims who died under the sword of a ego maniac:  Moses.

Yes.

God does not understand his own creation?  More bible WOG BS.   

[columbusdude82]

People amaze me in how passionately they argue about Iron Age mythology and medieval pseudo-philosophy. But then again, rivers of blood have been spilled over such trivialities.

Folks, there is so much more to our world than this, so much to learn and explore. It is all a whole lot more wonderful than virgins giving birth and dead men coming back to life and shooting up to the skies. From sub-atomic particles to enormous galaxies, from primitive life forms on the ocean floor to, well, us!

If only I had spent all that time I wasted on religion learning about the wonders of science, the workings of personal finance, or playing out in the garden, I would have been so much better off!

[loco]

No they do not.  It's fear based, fear motivated. All violent acts are rooted in fear.

ALL violent acts are rooted in fear?  Where do you get this stuff from?

Did i say that loco?   I truly believe you are not weak minded.   Not everyone who subscribes to this stuff is weak minded.  But those who cannot control themselves and need to be told what's right and wrong are.

Yes you did.  I do need God's word to tell me what's right or wrong.  

Loco, it's a very fine line whether it's murder or not.  Fact is, had this happened today it would be considered murder.   And it probably would be then too, but then again history is written by the victors.....You do support murder.  If God said do not worship me in that way and they decided to do so....you do support the killing, cutting stabbing, mutilating of 3000 men, fathers, sons  for that transgression because unless you do, then the Bible isn't the WOG and your whole world crumbles from there because you don't have the confidence in yourself, GOD's creation, to chose what's right or wrong.....from your heart.

And i don;t need to admit I'm wrong.   Did you not learn any compassion from Jesus?  Your hardened righteous heart is swimming in the blood of those victims who died under the sword of a ego maniac:  Moses.

God does not understand his own creation?  More bible WOG BS.  

I do not support murder.  That is a false statement and an attack on my character.  The only one here coming off as self righteous and judgemental is you.  Then again, you have resorted to anger and insults toward Christians in past threads.

[OzmO]

ALL violent acts are rooted in fear?  Where do you get this stuff from?

Yes you did.  I do need God's word to tell me what's right or wrong. 

I do not support murder.  That is a false statement and an attack on my character.  The only one here coming off as self righteous and judgemental is you.  Then again, you have resorted to anger and insults toward Christians in past threads.

Yes, you support the killing of 3000 men for worshiping choice.  Call it what you want.  I call it murder.  You call it justice?

And i only told why i think you support it.  If you think that's an insult there's nothing i can do about that.  That also goes for you thinking i called you weak minded.

PS:   good thing we are not in the early 1800's because you'd probably own slaves and think there's nothing wrong with that.

[loco]

Yes, you support the killing of 3000 men for worshiping choice.  Call it what you want.  I call it murder.  You call it justice?

Then you support murder, in the form of capital punishment.  Let's start this discussion all over again.  I'm ready.

And i only told why i think you support it.  If you think that's an insult there's nothing i can do about that.  That also goes for you thinking i called you weak minded.

You are saying that I support murder, and why I support it.  I do not support murder, but you do because you support capital punishment believing it to be murder.  I do not.

PS:   good thing we are not in the early 1800's because you'd probably own slaves and think there's nothing wrong with that.

OzmO, are you black or native South American?  No, you would have owned slaves and thought that it was okay.  I would have been a slave.

Have you forgotten that it was Christians who abolished slavery?  Have you forgotten that the founding father of American spoke against slavery and took action against it?  It was after the founding father's generation that the abolition of slavery was postponed for a while, by greedy men who served and worshipped money, not God.

Wanna start the slavery discussion all over again?  I'm ready.   

[OzmO]

Then you support murder, in the form of capital punishment.  Let's start this discussion all over again.  I'm ready.

You are saying that I support murder, and why I support it.  I do not support murder, but you do because you support capital punishment believing it to be murder.  I do not.

I told you how i felt about capital punishment.....have you forgot?

You are saying that I support murder, and why I support it.  I do not support murder, but you do because you support capital punishment believing it to be murder.  I do not.

Capital punishment occurs from a murder, not from choosing a method of worship.  do you know the difference?

OzmO, are you black or native South American?  No, you would have owned slaves and thought that it was okay.  I would have been a slave.

Have you forgotten that it was Christians who abolished slavery?  Have you forgotten that the founding father of American spoke against slavery and took action against it?  It was after the founding father's generation that the abolition of slavery was postponed for a while, by greedy men who served and worshipped money, not God.

Wanna start the slavery discussion all over again?  I'm ready.

What does any of this have to do with anything?

If you were a plantation owner in the 1700 or early 1800 would your bible show it's right or wrong to own slaves?

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things
       and beyond cure.
       Who can understand it?

Isn't God all understanding does he not understand even his own creations?   

[loco]

I told you how i felt about capital punishment.....have you forgot?

Capital punishment occurs from a murder, not from choosing a method of worship.  do you know the difference?

Not in the case of treason in the US.

What does any of this have to do with anything?

If you were a plantation owner in the 1700 or early 1800 would your bible show it's right or wrong to own slaves?

Africans were kidnapped and sold as slaves.  The Bible says it's wrong.  Nobody who supported slavery in the 1700 or early 1800 US used the Bible as excuse.  They used fear of the economy suffering from freeing slaves and fear of what slaves might do to their owner if they were set free.

Exodus 21:16
"Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death."

OzmO, I suggest you read up on slavery, its history, the different types of slavery, and slavery that goes on today.  I spent a great deal of time explaining debt slavery to you in another thread.  You should have known that already.

[loco]

Isn't God all understanding does he not understand even his own creations?   

OzmO,
God understands our hearts, we don't.  That's the point.

[OzmO]

Not in the case of treason in the US.

Was what those 3000 men did treason?  Did they sell secrets to the Egyptians?  Did they provide military info to the Egyptians?

Again far different.   Yes, your point is clear.  But at the end of the day 3000 men were killed for making a personal choice of worship.   So your point loses legitimacy.

Africans were kidnapped and sold as slaves.  The Bible says it's wrong.  Nobody who supported slavery in the 1700 or early 1800 US used the Bible as excuse.  They used fear of the economy suffering from freeing slaves and fear of what slaves might do to their owner if they were set free.

Exodus 21:16
"Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death."

Would you or they  have freed the kidnapped slave's children loco?  I think not.   

Also, they didn't need to use the bible as an excuse, the point is:  The bible did not say slavery was wrong.    Isn't the bible supposed to guide you?  It FAILED there.  GOD failed there.  i thought GOD was perfect?   

OzmO,
God understands our hearts, we don't.  That's the point.

that's not what he says, that how you interpret it because anything other plain interpretation would show a fallacy.

The correct thing to say if he meant as you interpret it would be:

"Man cannot under stand anyone's heart."

[loco]

Was what those 3000 men did treason?  Did they sell secrets to the Egyptians?  Did they provide military info to the Egyptians?

Again far different.   Yes, your point is clear.  But at the end of the day 3000 men were killed for making a personal choice of worship.   So your point loses legitimacy.

Would you or they  have freed the kidnapped slave's children loco?  I think not.   

Also, they didn't need to use the bible as an excuse, the point is:  The bible did not say slavery was wrong.    Isn't the bible supposed to guide you?  It FAILED there.  GOD failed there.  i thought GOD was perfect?   

that's not what he says, that how you interpret it because anything other plain interpretation would show a fallacy.

The correct thing to say if he meant as you interpret it would be:

"Man cannot under stand anyone's heart."

OzmO,
I have to go.  We'll continue this later.  Happy 4th of July!

I love you, OzmO, not in a homo kind of way!   

[OzmO]

OzmO,
I have to go.  We'll continue this later.  Happy 4th of July!

I love you, OzmO, not in a homo kind of way!   

You have a great 4th of July Also Loco!   You are a great man. 

I bet if we went through the the bible line by line we'd find there is far far far more things we agree on than we disagree on.