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Author Topic: Great Danes...  (Read 5472 times)
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« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2007, 03:18:29 PM »

Stimulation?  When wolves migrate miles and miles per day, it is because they have to.  A part of life.  Genetically imposed into their brains.  When you walk your dog it shouldn't be for THEIR stimulation.  You are walking, and you are taking them with you.  If your dogs walked next to you, focused on the walk and weren't allowed to stop to sniff/pee/poop until you told them they could, they would be happier because it is closer to what they were born to do...follow.

I am not saying your dogs are not happy or they do not think you are in charge because they walk in front, it all depends on the dog.

  Go read some works by Mech on hierarchy.  It is not as rigid as people like to think.   You do not have to "dominate" and "control" your dog every second to be the "Alpha".   Here's just one quick reference:



Mech (1999) disagrees somewhat though, because he says that in natural wolf packs, the alpha male and female are merely the breeding pair.  Most research relies on wolves in captivity, and Mech's observations in the wild have noted several contradictions, such as the one mentioned here.  His problem with the term dominance is that it falsely implies "a rigid, force-based dominance hierarchy" (p.98), when there is nothing forced-based about the hierarchy at all.  The only consistent demonstration of rank in natural packs is the animals' postures during social interactions.  Dominant wolves assume the classic canid standing posture with tail horizontal, and subordinate individuals lower themselves and put their nose under the nose of the alpha individual.  He points out that regardless of what it is called, dominance is not terribly important to the everyday lives of the wolves.  Unlike some animals, the wolf dominance hierarchy does not equate to a pecking order, and so dominance has been over-emphasized in the literature.  He points out that all pups are potential breeders, and so all have the potential to obtain alpha status.
 

 Walks are for my dogs and my stimulation.  They'd be happier if I told them when the could sniff, pee and poop and walked head up, at my side, towing the line.


  In your learning about wolves  Roll Eyes, you did happen to also learn how to feed a carnivore I hope too?   Cool

    Roll Eyes

  http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_mech_dominance_alpha_status.htm


  and please provide something to back up this statement:


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If your dogs walked next to you, focused on the walk and weren't allowed to stop to sniff/pee/poop until you told them they could, they would be happier because it is closer to what they were born to do...follow.
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« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2007, 04:21:44 PM »

Works by Mech?  Who?  Lol... Google is wonderful.  I will take the info from the Minnesotans for Sustainability website and cherish it.

What goes on in an actual wolf pack and the way THEY interact with each other is alot different since I am going to go out on a limb and say it is a little easier for a dog to communicate with another dog than it is for you or I to communicate with a dog.  For a human to observe wolves in the wild and count corrections dished out and put it into a table is hilarious.

I don't need to read works by anyone to prove what I am saying is accurate, I've read enough, and most of my knowledge is from word of mouth and what I've been told and shown by extremely intelligent and experienced people.  One of the reasons that it is so important that a dog know how to properly walk, and knows his role ON a walk is because the same people who let their dogs walk in front of them, and/or pull them, are the people who feed them table food for no reason, let them sleep on the bed/couch, leave food in their bowls all day long, let them enter and leave buildings before them, and etc etc etc.  Those people are also the same people that during the life of their dog if they happen to get bitten, it is the dogs fault.  It has nothing to do with the fact that they worried about the dogs happiness instead of giving it structure and balance from the moment it was born.  The dog didn't bite you, it corrected you.  It was right when it corrected you as well, because in it's mind, it owns you.  The moral of the story is, there is no structure to the dogs life.  It has developed its own structure and in it, it doesn't take orders from you.

As far as the statement about happiness and how they are walked that you are requiring a google search with a link to back up.  I'll pass on finding a meaningless link.  Just like we are born to listen to our parents, dogs are born with certain inherent behaviors.  Natural bodily functions, the desire to explore, sexual desires, are some.  Most important to a dog owner is the fact that dogs are born to follow.  No one said it had to be "rigid" or "force-based".  I didn't tell you that if your dog doesn't walk next to you that you should beat it.  When wolves migrate, the alpha is out in front almost all of the time unless it lets a subordinate take the place, which almost never happens especially while hunting.  Do you think ALL FOUR of your dogs would be happier owning you rather than living a laid back life where they chill in the house, with no responsibilities/burdens of guarding/gathering and all they really have to worry about is to do what they are told, and just can't wait until their alpha decides to go for a walk because they'd love to go along with them?

To reiterate, I never said you have to "DOMINATE" and "CONTROL" your dog.  What you may view as those two things are simple little rules that 95% of Americans who own dogs consider being "mean", where in actuality you'd just be establishing guidelines that you dogs would have to follow if they were wild and in a pack.
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« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2007, 04:26:13 PM »

You know all about wolves and never heard of L. David Mech?   Okay dude.   Roll Eyes

So what do you feed them?
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« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2007, 04:31:47 PM »

You can roll your eyes at my advice/knowledge all you want, but it is accurate and being that I own a dominant breed and for anyone who does, invaluable.  Being passive ends up in tragedy.

And what do I feed what?
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« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2007, 04:33:26 PM »

What do you feed your dogs?


 If it is so accurate I would think you could post a link or recommend a book, author, trainer, something so that one may educate themselves too.
   Smiley
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« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2007, 04:36:27 PM »

I also never stated I was a wolf expert.  And no, I have never heard of Mech.  I don't need to be a wolf expert.  Dogs are basically wolves and pretty damn similar.  The important info to you and I is that referring to a DOMESTICATED DOG, not a WILD WOLF.  What David Mech has to say about wolf packs is irrelevant to someone who lives with two Chihuahua's and a Cocker Spaniel.  Big difference between a pack of four, 3 DOMESTICATED ANIMALS TOTALING MAYBE 40LBS and a pack of WILD WOLVES, considering the fact that a HUMAN is involved with the former.
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« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2007, 04:37:53 PM »

I have one dog.  He eats Eagle Pack Holistic Select Chicken and Rice.  He has been on Canidae and Evo in the past, the EP seems to agree with him the best.  If you are getting at feeding a raw diet, or 'BARF", it is just not economically practical for me/
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« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2007, 04:38:05 PM »

So I ask yet again, to direct me to someplace that I may learn and study these "revelations". 


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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2007, 04:39:26 PM »

I have read pretty much every dog psychology book I can find.  I think about 16 in total looking at my shelf, not counting what is lent out.
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« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2007, 04:40:30 PM »

I have one dog.  He eats Eagle Pack Holistic Select Chicken and Rice.  He has been on Canidae and Evo in the past, the EP seems to agree with him the best.  If you are getting at feeding a raw diet, or 'BARF", it is just not economically practical for me/

So you are going to tell me it is best for my dogs to ask to sniff, pee, poop, and pretty much anything else should only be allowed with first getting permission from ME, their All Powerful Master, yet you feed your dogs like omivores.

  tsk tsk. 
  Smiley
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« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2007, 04:42:34 PM »

I have read pretty much every dog psychology book I can find.  I think about 16 in total looking at my shelf, not counting what is lent out.

  go find the one that says "your dog will be happiest if it can only sniff if you tell it it can"

 
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« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2007, 04:46:31 PM »

Let me run out and by raw food for my dog because he knows the difference between an extremely high quality dry food, with no grain at all, mind you, and raw food, right?  It may taste better, but it has nothing to do with his mental stability.  He gets marrowbones at least twice a week after training anyway, that raw enough for you?

  As I stated, if you didn't hear me, I have ONE dog, not dogs, and it is NOT ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE to feed him a raw diet for me.  If it was, I still probably wouldn't.  You can take shots all you want, but it is still startling that someone who owns two giant breeds, from what I can tell, that you could simply sit here and act like what I am saying is false, whether or not you choose to follow it.

Your dogs don't have to ask to do anything.  They should earn it.  You should walk and keep them in line for a while, and then let them release and do what they do.  It is a reward, and they'll look forward to it.  I hate to keep referring to wolves because I am no Mech and all, but no one shows up to a pack of wolves and drops steak in front of them.  They earn it.
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« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2007, 04:49:28 PM »

I hate to turn to this, because I am not a huge fan of him although I liked the guy, and hes especially nice in person and at his seminars, but read Cesar's Way since it is the last book I read regarding dog psychology as just one example of a source you are looking for.  Shit, even if you watched the show you'd know your comment is pretty ignorant.  I am pretty sure they touch on this issue in "Leader of the Pack" by Baer and Duno, as well.

go find the one that says "your dog will be happiest if it can only sniff if you tell it it can"

 

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« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2007, 04:57:14 PM »

Let me run out and by raw food for my dog because he knows the difference between an extremely high quality dry food, with no grain at all, mind you, and raw food, right?  It may taste better, but it has nothing to do with his mental stability.  He gets marrowbones at least twice a week after training anyway, that raw enough for you?


 So you are only concerned with how thoroughly he OBEYS you, not with his health.  Interesting.      No that is not raw enough, dogs are carnivores, not omnivores.  If you are so concerned with what makes a dog happiest because it is a dog, then feeding it the way it is designed to be fed should be a no brainer.

 BTW, rice is a grain.  Wink


 
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As I stated, if you didn't hear me, I have ONE dog, not dogs, and it is NOT ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE to feed him a raw diet for me.  If it was, I still probably wouldn't.  You can take shots all you want, but it is still startling that someone who owns two giant breeds, from what I can tell, that you could simply sit here and act like what I am saying is false, whether or not you choose to follow it.

You have some truth to what you say, but you have taken it to the extreme and made judgments on people that you think are not doing it your way, which you think is the only way.   Roll Eyes
 

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Your dogs don't have to ask to do anything.  They should earn it.  You should walk and keep them in line for a while, and then let them release and do what they do.  It is a reward, and they'll look forward to it.  I hate to keep referring to wolves because I am no Mech and all, but no one shows up to a pack of wolves and drops steak in front of them.  They earn it.

  Is that you following us on our walks?  I really need to get that pepper spray.   Grin


  I never knew shitting was a privilege that must be earned. 
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« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2007, 05:03:54 PM »

My dog is as healthy as a horse, lol.  There is a big diff between IAMS, which is pure dogshit dogfood, and high quality kibble, such as Evo, which is as I stated, grain free.  Eagle Pack seems to be the best fit for him in alot of ways.  But I am sure he'd be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound if I was feeding him a raw diet, right?  Lmao.

I am done with this thread, you can think what you will, they are your dogs after all.  Besides, I have NO idea what I am talking about Smiley
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« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2007, 05:11:48 PM »

You are the one that is saying you know it all.   Smiley

 Just pointing out that for one who knows it all you ignore the actual biology of the dog.

   HHHmmmmmm.... or maybe you are doing what works for you and your dog?


  Naw, that can't be it, their can only be one right way to do everything according to you.  And you ARE feeding your dog against both it's biology and nature.   Smiley

 Oh, btw Evo ingredients, sure does look like carnivore fare!:


Ingredients:
Turkey, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Egg, Garlic, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals, Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms
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« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2007, 04:45:46 PM »

From "guest"


The reporter has made the following comment:

I have a 2yr. old ,Vinny.He is the best!!He will definetly fill your space in the bed...you will have to sleep on the couch!!As for your wife being safe ,no need to worry anymore!!Their bark alone will keep strangers away.And they are VERY protective of their mommys!!I would choose a male.And if you ever plan on walking him...teach him early,or else he will walk you!!






To the person that wrote the above:  You need to register to have your replies post on the board.  Normally we don't copy comments in a "report to mod" on the board but I figured you may have thought you were posting?  You need to hit "register" at the top of the Forums screen and follow the steps.  Then after you are approved your posts will show up on the board Smiley   You will also be able to post pics of Vinny if you so choose  Smiley
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