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Author Topic: Re: Pitbulls...........again  (Read 9006 times)
trab
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 08:17:23 AM »


That's terrible... They are a awesome breed. Just Dont forget though what part of their  makeup came from.

Staffs dont seem to have as much of the "I NEED to fight other dogs" in their genetic make up.
THey been detuned a bit and bred for cosmetic standards. Plenty of Gameness left still though.
Staffs will avoid a fight, my Pitt would have called a cab to get to one if he could have.
He'd often try to start one w/ the big brindle.  Pitts are geting bred by lots of PPL who should NOT.
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 08:48:15 AM »

That's terrible... They are a awesome breed. Just Dont forget though what part of their  makeup came from.

No, those photos are all very, very real.  I've know Vironique and Rob since I was in veterinary school.  She's an opinionated person (I think its her French-Canadian roots  Wink ) but she's worked very, very hard with maintaining the PBRC website and keeping the facts straight with the pit bull breeds.  I have to look through the photos more closely, but some of them may be photos taken from the humane societies where my wife and I worked in veterinary school.  You will almost never see the media cover the torture these dogs sometimes go through.  Its not a sensational story that instills fear in people and thus sells, unfortunately. 

As far as their makeup goes.... yes, some pits/staffies can be dog aggressive.  This happens in all breeds, except if its a dog aggressive dachshund or poodle or cocker spaniel, people tend to laugh at it.  Again its responsible pet ownership.  I had a moderately dog aggressive male staffie for years---with 4 other dogs and no problems.  Training was a big, big deal with this dog to keep him from acting out.  I also had to pay very close attention to him to anticipate his actions and prevent problems. 
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 08:06:20 PM »

Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper Roll Eyes Shocked) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his  big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...

definately agree with this. It takes alot of training/time with the dogs, but once you have it down, it's like clockwork, the dog will always remember.
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2007, 05:34:31 AM »

Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper Roll Eyes Shocked) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his  big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...

I have owned several pits. They should be raised correctly. Which includes proper socialization starting from the time they are puppy's. If a person has to treat there pit like a "weapon" or a piece of "equipment" they have no idea how to train dogs correctly imo. Guns are kept locked away. Dangerous equipment is kept locked up. I cant understand a properly socialized dog having to be treated like a gun.

There should always be supervision when a dog is interacting with kids or strangers. If they need to be treated like a "gun" the owner did not do a good job training his dog. My pits never got into a fight where blood was drawn.
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2007, 05:43:10 AM »



It takes no more effort to train a pit then any other dominant breed dog. Pits are actually easier to train then a lot of other breeds due to there intelligence and natural urge to please there masters. I don't agree with having to treat your pit like a "gun" at all (as posted above). Guns are locked away and dangerous. Any type of dog (including pits) should be supervised at all times when with children or interacting with strangers. Same thing at the dog park. If you have to do more then simply supervise your dog (in case anything was to go down) you have not done a adequate job training it.

This was a general post. Not directed at anyone in particular.
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2007, 06:33:41 AM »


It takes no more effort to train a pit then any other dominant breed dog. Pits are actually easier to train then a lot of other breeds due to there intelligence and natural urge to please there masters. I don't agree with having to treat your pit like a "gun" at all (as posted above). Guns are locked away and dangerous. Any type of dog (including pits) should be supervised at all times when with children or interacting with strangers. Same thing at the dog park. If you have to do more then simply supervise your dog (in case anything was to go down) you have not done a adequate job training it.

This was a general post. Not directed at anyone in particular.

 Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!  I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.

BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2007, 07:47:47 AM »

if pits had temperaments like cocker spaniels they would really be a handfull.

some of these posts are making pits sound like these weapons who unless strictly trained and handled will be out terrorizing everything in their path.  no one would deny that pits have some animal agression, so do many other breeds, but theres no need to overstate it.  i mean i take my pit to the dog park alteast 4 or 5 times a week and never had any problems.  yes they have a fighting past but they are much more than that, they are also know for their outstanding temperaments, their work as therapy dogs, their love of children which gave them the nickname the "nanny dog",  their history of being the number one family dog in america, ect.  ive grown up around pits and in my experience they are extremely intellegent, obediant, and easy to train.  im not saying people should ignore the pits fighting past, it should be respected and taken into consideration, im just sayin its in their past and doesnt have to be a issue unless the owner makes it one.

also wanted to point out that it is a myth that pitbulls bite force is much greater than any other breed.  domestic dogs have a psi in the 300 to 320 range, that includes pits.
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2007, 07:54:57 AM »

Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!  I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.

BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.

First off this "city boy" has owned several pitbulls. I'm talking true pits. Secondly you missed the point of my post. I know the capabilities of pitbulls. I know they should be respected. That is true for MANY breeds. I know what a true fighting "game" pit is all about, I owned 2 from "game" lines. I am refering to "game" in the sense of fighting. I know about the fighting lines you are talking about. Why would you want a true  fighting bull in todays society? Why would you encourage that? That goes against pretty much everything socialization and proper training promote. It also gives pitbulls a bad name. I liked this line the the best from your post Roll Eyes. "It is endline of century's of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet". That statement is everything wrong with some pitbull owners. You focus on the negative aspects a pit can have. Dog fighting is illegal and cruel. To promote bone crushing, aggressive behavior, fighting, and "fighting gameness" in general is counterproductive to the breed. "fighting breeds" are not required to fight. My buddy has a Tosa. The dog is a sweetheart. I don't care what the line is, if you properly raise and socialize a puppy he can be a loyal and peaceful animal. You can break the cycle with older aggressive dogs also. My point was if you have a game fighting pit that has to be treated like a "gun" or a "machine" you don't know how to train dogs properly. That or you encourage the aggressive behavior instead of channeling the gameness into positive behaviors.. The only people who care about how game a pit is are insecure tough guys, or dog fighters. Both the lowest of the low that are dragging the whole breed down. No one is trying to compare pits to cocker spaniels. We are stressing that properly trained and socialized pitbulls are just like any other dominant breed out there. They can be very gentle and are great with kids.

Stop spouting off about "bone crushing ", "game" pits. The only clowns who own those are fighters or meatballs who promote aggressive behavior. What use does a "bone crushing" , unsocialized pit ( or any other breed) have as a pet?


My pits came from legit fighting lines, both where considered game in a fighting sense. But instead of promoting aggressive behavior I socialized them and trained them. They never got in one serious fight. Smarten up boss. My bitch was about 35 lbs. Damion was about 65. Both came from game lines. Both where examples of true pitbulls. Not the overly muscled amstaff clones you see today, with the huge heads and giant size. I own a 90 lb American bulldog right now. He is 1 1/2 years old. He comes from a line where the original sire was a revered boar hunter. That = a heavy prey drive. You know what? He is gentle as a baby with other animals. That comes from socialization.
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2007, 09:10:44 AM »

Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!  I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.

BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.

LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements...  Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy. 
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"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!

I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years.  She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned.  Mila does everything at 120%.  Thats what I love about her...the intensity.  Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines.   One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl.  Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard.  He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane.  Wink   and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving.  My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia.  Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog.  Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans. 

Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in.  "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained. 
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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2007, 09:19:22 AM »

LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements...  Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy. 
I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years.  She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned.  Mila does everything at 120%.  Thats what I love about her...the intensity.  Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines.   One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl.  Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard.  He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane.  Wink   and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving.  My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia.  Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog.  Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans. 

Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in.  "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained. 


Great post!
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« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2007, 09:28:33 AM »


Great post!
As was yours above mine. 


"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability. 


The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner.   A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors. 

This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job".  It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game.  Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news.  A "game dog" is not automatically a killer. 
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« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2007, 09:37:03 AM »

As was yours above mine. 


"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability. 


The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner.   A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors. 

This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job".  It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game.  Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news.  A "game dog" is not automatically a killer. 


100 percent true. There are some extremely "game" jack Russel terriers out there. Unfortunately when discussing pits usually the gameness is referring to fighting. People are fed so much bs when it comes to pits it almost makes you sick.
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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2007, 10:53:37 AM »

LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements...  Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy. 
I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years.  She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned.  Mila does everything at 120%.  Thats what I love about her...the intensity.  Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines.   One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl.  Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard.  He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane.  Wink   and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving.  My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia.  Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog.  Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans. 

Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in.  "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained. 

Doc... Iaint saying they are the massive danger to ppl that the media like to show, it's quite the opposite w/ most Pitts.
BUT THEY ARE DAMN CAPPABLE. Denying that is BS.
Their chewing abilty is unbelievabe. They dont let go. Its deep in their nature. You know that.

My opinion is they belong..
1. Indoors                                   
 2. on a stout piece of chain, on your property where nobody that dont know that dog has legal right to  be, (even that can go wrong w/  strange kids).                       
         
3. On a stout lead, w/ a pincer choke-collar and someone strong enough to control that animal.

All these ppl w/  cheap chain link or wood fence in the city with  pitts sticking their heads over the top are at a extreme liabilty issue. Those that lett them run free are brain dead.

Pitts and Rotties both got to popular for their own good. Whats being bred is a joke.
Agressive animals aint funny, a lab or shepard bites; A pit grabs, and shakes till a piece comes off, then chokes up deeper!  Dont deny what these animals can do. And even though domesticated, they are ANIMALS w/ instincts and automatic reactions at times.
I doubt you'd last long at work w/ out keeping that in mind.
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« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2007, 11:05:50 AM »

if pits had temperaments like cocker spaniels they would really be a handfull.

The above statment is 100% correct IMO. MOST Pitts LOVE people.



THis statment Here,  Roll Eyes     I'd like the Doc to respond to - 'cause its 100% wrong!
also wanted to point out that it is a myth that pitbulls bite force is much greater than any other breed.  domestic dogs have a psi in the 300 to 320 range, that includes pits.

Pits biting power is in its own leauge. SHow me other dogs that masive that can jump, bite, and HANG and Shake?
Be real here.
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« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2007, 11:19:34 AM »

As was yours above mine. 


"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability. 


The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner.   A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors. 

This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job".  It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game.  Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news.  A "game dog" is not automatically a killer. 

Vet, I'm really surprised to see YOU write this. Revisionist historian?
Fill 'em in on Dog fighting history, you know it Im sure.

Gameness w/ Pitts refers to their refusal to let go, or surrender, at all costs.
 That is if you are still calling them "Pitt Bulls".
They are one of the Fighting breeds that man has bred over the ages. Rat terriers fought rats while men gambled in England after dog fighting became illegal. I believe Sharpies (sp) loose skin was a fighting breed byproduct.

Guy Tells me they have the same biting power as other breeds? Grin Well, 20 more yrs of breeding the scraggly mangy stuff people are now calling "Pitts" and He'll then be correct.
 
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« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2007, 12:51:03 PM »

Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue.  My 3 AB's are always seen &  classified as pits......the "evil dogs".  It really drives me crazy sometimes.     

Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news?  No. Angry  Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger.  It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.   

Kim

damn ankle biters

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« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2007, 01:00:03 PM »

My opinion is they belong..
1. Indoors                                   
 2. on a stout piece of chain, on your property where nobody that dont know that dog has legal right to  be, (even that can go wrong w/  strange kids).                       
         
3. On a stout lead, w/ a pincer choke-collar and someone strong enough to control that animal.



wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why. 

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« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2007, 02:01:01 PM »

wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why. 



You let yours run free?  THATS a shame, and negligence.
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2007, 02:07:11 PM »

Do you put your dogs on a lead & pinch collar in the house?

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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2007, 02:11:17 PM »

Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!  I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.

BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.

    trab....Do you have one of these bumper stickers on your monster truck?

               
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« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2007, 02:14:37 PM »

    trab....Do you have one of these bumper stickers on your monster truck?

               

What would you rather have...?  A jacketed 9mm or .38 cal slug in the leg, or a 65lb pit bull on that leg?
Bullet Please!
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« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2007, 02:17:10 PM »

wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why. 



Do you let your run free? That is a wreck waiting to happen.
The legal term is negligence.
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« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2007, 02:19:34 PM »

run free in the house....or yard?
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« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2007, 02:21:59 PM »

run free in the house....or yard?


Yard of course K.
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« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2007, 02:23:37 PM »

What would you rather have...?  A jacketed 9mm or .38 cal slug in the leg, or a 65lb pit bull on that leg?
Bullet Please!

You missed my point.

   
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