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Author Topic: Re: Pitbulls...........again  (Read 8651 times)
Camel Jockey
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« on: July 09, 2007, 07:47:09 PM »

i have noticed that everytime the subject of pitbulls comes up in a thread someone has to come out with a ignorant remark.


it is bad enough how pitbulls are treated today in our society.  i would think a place like this, devoted to pets, would not tolerate

such things.

Don't dodge the issue here. A forum is a place of discussion.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 09:52:10 PM »

Don't dodge the issue here. A forum is a place of discussion.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

it has nothing to do with dodging the issue.  if you dont like pit bulls for whatever reason than that is fine.  making comments like "pit bulls attack people", shouldnt be a part of this discussion board.  its those types of comments along with the nonsense that is in that link, which lead to things like breed specific legislation and thousands of innocent pit bulls every year being killed.

true pit bulls are not aggressive towards people at all.  they are extremely people friendly, especially with children.  their temperament ranks among the highest of any breed.

many of these dog bite stats attributed to pit bull "type" dogs are not pit bulls at all.  one problem is that pit bull is a genieric term used for the apbt, amstaff and bull terrier.  there are also over 20 seperate breeds who have pit bull type characteristics and are commonly incorrectly identified as a pit bull as well as all the pit mixes. 

Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks
"In reviewing and studying over 448 cases of fatal dog attacks in the United States, it is apparent that the three most critical factors that contribute to a fatal dog attack are: function of the dog, owner responsibility, and reproductive status of the dog. There is NO DOCUMENTED CASE where a single, neutered, household Pit Bull was the cause of a human fatality.
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 05:52:45 AM »


 Camel Jockey, yes this is a forum, a place for discussion, but that means discussion, not inflammatory comments.

  Any dog "can attack people", truth be told you have a better chance of having a toy breed just come up and bite you than a pitbull.   A pitbull will do more damage than a toy dog of course, but that doesn't change which breed of dog is more apt to just bite someone.

   If all people can have a mature, intelligent, & rationale discussion then this thread can stay, if not I will delete it.
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 08:40:49 AM »

Pitbulls eat people too just like Mastino's... Angry



..... Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 08:43:10 AM »


  You are not helping EM.   Angry
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 08:51:17 AM »

we don't need multiple threads about one topic

You're just beating a dead horse
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 08:57:49 AM »

  You are not helping EM.   Angry

.... Kiss
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 09:42:40 AM »

we don't need multiple threads about one topic

You're just beating a dead horse

  When I split these posts out of the Dane thread I started to look for the other threads and merge them all, but I thought I'd let this thread play out, then merge any future ones.
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 09:59:37 AM »

no I agree...let it play out...

It seems to be only one person on this debate....maybe Hedge can come in with his 2 cents   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 10:54:34 AM »

To me these threads (and the thought processes that drive the onesided "Pitbulls are evil" mindset) are often flat out stupid....   Its just an example of mankinds need to hate and persecute without actually thinking something through. 

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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 12:06:13 PM »


   If all people can have a mature, intelligent, & rationale discussion then this thread can stay, if not I will delete it.


i admit there have been a few times on this board when i have gone a little far and taken it to personal attacks, name calling, ect. in response to some anti pitbull comments.  i will not do this anymore but it is also my opinion that the mods here should not be as lienent as far as hateful comments made towards pitbulls. not to say that everyone should praise pits as the greatest breed ever because they arent for everyone.  i just think some comments made, for example,  calling them worthless dogs who should be banned, comparing them to loaded guns, saying they attack people, ect. shouldnt have a place on a board like this.  i think those of those who love pitbulls have a right to be sensitive when it comes to these type of comments.  pits are by far the most persecuted and hated on breed of dog in our society.
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 12:31:31 PM »

I just made a point of them being involved in more attacks..

You started the topic and made a big deal of the whole thing..

I have nothing against you guys, and other responsible pet owners. Infact, I think it's wonderful and I envy you. But that doesn't mean you have to inflate this whole incident.

I don't think they should be banned, regulated or anything like that. And if you looked in the Great Dane topic, you'll see that my whole was that maybe these attacks are taking place because of poorly qualified and inexperienced owners(the hip-hop crowd). Chaos took it for than its original meaning and you guys ran with it.
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 12:41:27 PM »

i admit there have been a few times on this board when i have gone a little far and taken it to personal attacks, name calling, ect. in response to some anti pitbull comments.  i will not do this anymore but it is also my opinion that the mods here should not be as lienent as far as hateful comments made towards pitbulls. not to say that everyone should praise pits as the greatest breed ever because they arent for everyone.  i just think some comments made, for example,  calling them worthless dogs who should be banned, comparing them to loaded guns, saying they attack people, ect. shouldnt have a place on a board like this.  i think those of those who love pitbulls have a right to be sensitive when it comes to these type of comments.  pits are by far the most persecuted and hated on breed of dog in our society.

  I agree with the majority of what you are saying, which is why I highlighted the mature discussion part.  If people want to discuss this topic with facts, stats, concrete reasoning behind their opinions then fine.   People do have a right to wish a breed was not around, but it should be stated as an opinion and done with reasoning and not emotion. 
 
  I hope I explained that correctly.
  Undecided
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 12:48:24 PM »

I just made a point of them being involved in more attacks..

You started the topic and made a big deal of the whole thing..

I have nothing against you guys, and other responsible pet owners. Infact, I think it's wonderful and I envy you. But that doesn't mean you have to inflate this whole incident.

I don't think they should be banned, regulated or anything like that. And if you looked in the Great Dane topic, you'll see that my whole was that maybe these attacks are taking place because of poorly qualified and inexperienced owners(the hip-hop crowd). Chaos took it for than its original meaning and you guys ran with it.

  That was a reasonable post CJ, but your first post on this in the Dane thread was a bit inflammatory:

 
Pits attack people..

For real, most people that own pits are wannabe gangsters and probably have no right owning anything. Nothing against responsible owners or anything like that.

 That opening statement sets up the responses you are going to get.

  Since you have clarified your post, everyone please move forward in this discussion or close this topic.

   thanks.
    Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 04:00:43 PM »

One of the big problem with pits is the "Status symbol" crap that seems to follow them with some crowds.  I'm a veterinarian, my wife is a veterinarian--a boarded specialist.  We own pits.  The thing is they are house dogs you don't see outside unless we are with them.  My 76 year old grandmother owned a pit for several years.  Again, you never saw the dog unless she was outside with Clowy.  I know doctors, lawyers, politicians, police officers, fire fighters, television personalities---all respectable members of society who own one of the "pit bull" breeds be it English Staffies, American Staffies, APBT, Bull Terriers or American Bulldogs (yes I know there are others too that fall into that generalization). 

I also used to run a reasonable sized pitbull rescue a few years ago and I've worked as a cruelty investigator for Animal Control.   I will not lie and say I've never encountered a human aggressive pitbull, but those dogs are few and far between.  I don't know how many of you have every worked at a human society where all of the pits had to be euthanized for the simple reason they were pitbulls, but it flat out sucks.  Of all of the dogs, the pits are the ones that will always lick you in the face and wag their tail right before they fall over dead as you are injecting the Beuthanasia solution---always. 

Some of the absolute most horrible cases of animal cruelty I've ever encountered have been with pitbulls.  From dogs where the owners chopped the front legs off with a hatchet and then let two other dogs attack it as the dog bled to death, to administration of drugs ranging from anabolic steroids to benzodiazapenes to off the wall bullshit like feeding gunpowder--which literally eats out the stomach lining of the dog, often times killing it.   

Its a sad state in the US that the citizens are so stupid they buy into media bullshit---and thats what I think most of the pitbull attacks we hear about are.  People are bitten every day by dogs in the US.  Some counties in the US have mandatory "bite report" laws in that the healthcare workers who deal with patients who present with dog bites have to report that bite to the county health authorities and animal control.  I also know for a fact that there is one city in Ohio where the only dog bites that are not fatal that are reported in the paper are those by pitbulls.  All other breeds are ignored (again if they are not fatal attacks) because they are "not newsworthy" unless its a pitbull.  Pits may get front page coverage because they "sell papers".  I blame Dateline, newspapers, and other media sensationalism for much of the closeminded ideas that people have about these breeds.  I've got to the point when someone tells me they "hate pitbulls" I ask them why.  Have they ever been bitten by one?  Have they ever even seen one?  Could they even identify a pitbull if they had too----and as a side note that is something that many, many animal control regulations do very, very poorly as a result of the idiocy associated with the city councils responsible for passing stupid breed restricting legislature.  The online "Is it a pitbull" test is a very, very good one if you ask me. 

The bottom line is its the responsibility of the pet owner.  Only an idiot leaves a small child with a large dog and doesn't watch the dog---it doesn't matter what breed the dog is.  You never know when the kid is going to do something like poke the dog in the eye, which may provoke a defensive bite  that really isn't the dogs fault at all.   If you want to end dog breed related problems, you need to make the owners take responsibility for the dogs, not let them use the dog as a disposable means of income/status like so many do.  As a pitbull owner, I can say I'd do jail time if my dogs injured someone unprovoked---I know they won't, I've used my olderfemale as atherapy dog in the past and the puppy is in training now, but I can say it because I'm a responsible owner who isn't going to let their dogs get into a situation where something bad can happen. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2007, 05:02:06 PM »

Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue.  My 3 AB's are always seen &  classified as pits......the "evil dogs".  It really drives me crazy sometimes.     

Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news?  No. Angry  Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger.  It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.   

Kim
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2007, 05:25:07 PM »


    MOD EDIT  WARNING #1
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2007, 05:29:08 PM »


  First warning "dawg"   
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2007, 05:33:12 PM »

Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue.  My 3 AB's are always seen &  classified as pits......the "evil dogs".  It really drives me crazy sometimes.     

Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news?  No. Angry  Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger.  It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.   

Kim

i was about to make a new thread on the topic of pitbulls and media bias.  since you are talking about it here i will add on.
attacks by non-pit bull dogs are rarely taken up by national or international media sources, while this is regularly the case with any case involving a pit.

here is an example of 4 seperate dog bites that took place in june of 2006 and notice how each story was reported.

1. A three-year-old Virginia boy was admitted to the hospital with "extensive injuries". The child was attacked by a Golden Retriever mixed breed dog. The wounds to the child required 300 stitches; and the child will require additional surgeries to "functionally repair muscles, nerves and work on scars". This incident was reported in only two local Virginia newspapers.

2. A 3-year-old girl is admitted to Children's Hospital in Denver with serious lacerations to her face and head. The hospital declined to release the child's name or information on her condition. She had been attacked at her home by a Labrador Retriever. This attack was reported four times and only in Colorado media sources.

3. An Indiana woman is attacked and knocked to the ground by a German Shepherd dog. The dog she was walking, a small Sheltie mix was also attacked. Neighbors responded and managed to restrain the German Shepherd, but not before the woman was bitten twice in the face. Her small dog was so gravely injured that it was euthanized. This incident was reported in only one local Indiana newspaper.

4. An 11-year-old girl was bitten in the leg and taken to the hospital, when she was attacked by a pitbull in California.  This incident was reported in over ninety-one national and international newspapers. Forbes, FOX News, along with the Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune and dozens of other major news organizations headlined this "Pit Bull Attack".

*All information was researched and is fully documented by Karen Delise LVT, Independent Scholar and AuthorThe National Canine Research Council
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2007, 05:45:45 PM »

Ya, that edit above has some issues, could be legal issues if he was 4 real...

Pits are endline hundreds of yrs of selective breeding - To fight other Dogs, not their handlers or other ppl!
Ive owned a American pit and a AMstaff. The Amstaff would let my baby girl ride him. He was the most gentle
good hearted, animal Ive owned of many many dogs. He wouldn't bite if poked in the eye even. Also a very discriminating watch dog. 21" head. Jaws like a vise.

Don't tell anyone, but most Pitts are the most playfull dog you'll ever find. Play get the stick, and they'll let thieves unload the house.
 
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 06:34:28 PM »


Don't tell anyone, but most Pitts are the most playfull dog you'll ever find. Play get the stick, and they'll let thieves unload the house.
 

Hey, I didn't even hook up the Brinks whatever security system when I moved in.  I leave the front blinds up about 9 inches (my standards of course  Wink & the Bullies will sit right there until I come home.  Geez, I do hate to say it but if someone were to break into my house with some treats.....I'm so f-in robbed. 

Kim
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 07:01:51 PM »

Git the stick Boy - Git the Stick!... Totaly ignore the GSXR going Bye Bye.. Roll Eyes
THAT is how to deal with a pit bull.
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 08:51:05 PM »

people forget these dogs are bred to NOT be human aggressive, even if they are fought, who wants a dog that is going to bite the owner? The human aggressiveness is a learned trait.

 I have two pits and a mutt, I've had labs, and golden retrievers, and the pits are without a doubt the most loyal and loving dogs I've ever been around.


When it is time, I will get another one.
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 07:26:02 AM »

people forget these dogs are bred to NOT be human aggressive, even if they are fought, who wants a dog that is going to bite the owner? The human aggressiveness is a learned trait.

 I have two pits and a mutt, I've had labs, and golden retrievers, and the pits are without a doubt the most loyal and loving dogs I've ever been around.


When it is time, I will get another one.

Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper Roll Eyes Shocked) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his  big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 07:37:46 AM »

This is pathetic.......

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.php
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