Was I wrong?

[Hustle Man]

...I would let the X know that if she can't be "responsible" enough to make sure your daughter is at class when need be, then she shouldn't be with her on the nights she would normally attend hands on class.

Actually LL she prefers that I take the reins anyway so I have done exactly what you and others have suggested Paid the bill and from now on the remainder of "hands on" training will take place from my house starting this Monday.

[BayGBM]

Ok peeps let me set this up for you, then I need to know if I am being an asshole (like I was called) for pointing out the principle of the issue which is; I should not have to pay twice because someone else neglected their parental responsibilities.

At the beginning of the year my daughter asked if she could attend driving school (a prerequisite in Maryland if you are under 18) to get her drivers license.
I agreed to pay the cost in full $200+; this covered class room time and behind the wheel (hands on) training (10 hrs with a driving school instructor).

The only stipulation was that if you miss a scheduled hands on training session there would be a $50 fee to reschedule (for obvious reasons) and this is to be paid in full before “hands on” could resume or be rescheduled.

My X, bless her soul, caused my daughter to miss a scheduled hand on (embarrassed to say why) and she wants me to pay it! I said “HMFN, you made her miss it you pay the $50” now I know a 50 spot is nothing but it’s the principle of the matter right?

I made good on my commitment (paying the cost ($200+) and providing transportation to and from the class every night for a week), I feel the least she (the X) could do is pay for her mistakes after all the X’s tardiness was the reason my daughter missed the hands on in the first place.

Instead of agreeing to pay the $50 fee she calls me a selfish asshole, needless to say I hung up the phone before I said something that would not help the situation, then again maybe the hang up didn’t help either! Anyway, my question to you, was I wrong?

No, you were not wrong.  Your ex should pay the late fee.

[24KT]

You said he WAS a selfish asshole!!     

he was being a selfish asshole. Not necessarily in the way his ex meant it, but he was. Nothing wrong in being selfish. Sometimes we do have to look out for our own interests and not allow others to take unfair advantage of us, ...but he was thinking about himself, and because his primary focus (at first) was the $50 that his ex does rightfully owe him, instead of putting his daughter's dilemma first, ...he was thinking out of his anatomy.

I can understand if the ex is a _itch, ...but the way I was looking at it, ...the ex is petty & irrelevant.
The important subject and focus should have been on his daughter. I think when the daughter is made the focus and the 1^st priority, ...then everything else become clear, and the petty stuff won't irritate as much. But he did remove his head from his anatomy, and did the right thing by his daughter. He came to his senses afterall. 

By focussing on the ex's irresponsibility and tendency to lay everything at his feet, ...everything becomes a point of stress & aggravation. He should just take a deep breath, consider it the price to be paid for reproducing with such a creature, and mark his calendar and start counting down the days, being grateful, that he only has less than 5 more years of this, ...and she can be out of his hair forever.

[~flower~]

I think there is difference in being selfish and being tired of taken advantage of.

   

 I think it is unfair to say he was being "selfish".  He told the ex-wife she should be responsible for it and she called him selfish and then he hung up before it got ugly. 

 He was not being selfish to tell the wife to pay it.  After her response to him he realized she would not pay for it and he paid for it. 

 So nowhere was he selfish that I can see.    

[michael arvilla]

NO

[24KT]

I think there is difference in being selfish and being tired of taken advantage of.

   

 I think it is unfair to say he was being "selfish".  He told the ex-wife she should be responsible for it and she called him selfish and then he hung up before it got ugly. 

Who says being selfish is always a bad thing? He was definitely being selfish (aka thinking about himself)

He was not being selfish to tell the wife to pay it.  After her response to him he realized she would not pay for it and he paid for it. 

 So nowhere was he selfish that I can see.    

I think his initial reaction was selfish, ...but when he considered his daughter, his thoughts and focus changed from how he was being taken advantage of, to what was best for his daughter, ...so in the end, his selflessness won out.

[Butterbean]

Who says being selfish is always a bad thing? He was definitely being selfish (aka thinking about himself)

I think his initial reaction was selfish, ...but when he considered his daughter, his thoughts and focus changed from how he was being taken advantage of, to what was best for his daughter, ...so in the end, his selflessness won out.

I don't see that he was being selfish.  Like Flower said it seems like he was just tired of being taken advantage of once again.  At some point he probably doesn't want his daughter seeing that the ex gets away w/all these attempts at manipulation.  He probably wants the daughter to see there are consequences to actions. 

Who knows what the ex-wife did to make the daughter miss the lesson.  Hustleman said it was too embarrassing to post.

[~flower~]

Selfish:
1.  Concerned chiefly or only with oneself


 I don't think that is a fair description in this situation.   He was called "selfish" after telling the ex he thought she should pay for the fee since she incurred it.  She used the word "selfish" to play him and make him feel bad.  SHE was the one being "selfish". 

  He was not "selfish" because once his ex made it clear that she would not pay it, he did.   Telling someone they should pay for an expense they incurred is not being selfish.  Is he supposed to just pay everything without a question?

[Butterbean]

Selfish:
1.  Concerned chiefly or only with oneself


 I don't think that is a fair description in this situation.   He was called "selfish" after telling the ex he thought she should pay for the fee since she incurred it.  She used the word "selfish" to play him and make him feel bad.  SHE was the one being "selfish". 

  He was not "selfish" because once his ex made it clear that she would not pay it, he did.   Telling someone they should pay for an expense they incurred is not being selfish.  Is he supposed to just pay everything without a question?

agree

[24KT]

I don't see that he was being selfish.  Like Flower said it seems like he was just tired of being taken advantage of once again.  At some point he probably doesn't want his daughter seeing that the ex gets away w/all these attempts at manipulation.  He probably wants the daughter to see there are consequences to actions. 

Who knows what the ex-wife did to make the daughter miss the lesson.  Hustleman said it was too embarrassing to post.

Again, I think we are arguing over semantics... because i don't think that being selfish is always a bad thing.
We all agree he did the right thing by paying the $50 for his daughter, and we all agree he should not be taken advantage of, so why the huge discrepancy... I don't know.

[SamoanIrishman]

Well if you include the manipulation factor I will also get the bill for the slashed tire, remember everything is my fault even the divorce (She filed not me) Now that I have moved on I am blamed for everything wrong in her life. When the Deer ate her Rose pedals, (that I gave her for her garden) I got blamed because the Hostas that I also gave her to plant attracted the Deer "Why didn't you tell me Deer loved Hosta leaves and Roses, I would have never planted them?" "Knowing you, you probably did it on purpose just so the Deer would eat them and I would never be able to enjoy them" "You're an ASSHOLE!"

I can't win no matter how hard I try!

Sounds so very familliar...we have more in common than I thought...

[Hustle Man]

Again, I think we are arguing over semantics... because i don't think that being selfish is always a bad thing.
We all agree he did the right thing by paying the $50 for his daughter, and we all agree he should not be taken advantage of, so why the huge discrepancy... I don't know.

I guess this quarter only two of the 3 applicants into the "Man Club" will make the cut lol!  Jaggy I wish you could be a fly on the wall when my X and I have conversations such as these I think you would see the manipulation factor in full effect. She uses the kids to get her way because she knows that I love my kids and that I provide for them in everyway, I am very active in every part of their lives but she tries to make me out to be this selfish person (in front of the kids) just because I don't give in to her every whim. To my kids I am a man of integrity, fairness and above all honesty this scenario was not handled in fairness by my X and my daughter witnessed this. She came to me and said "Dad thank you for not arguing with her I think you were right..."

And FYI my X doesn't even work outside the home I support her fully through Alimony & child support! I didn't want to include that but she has it pretty good and I don't complain about that because I will do whatever it takes to ensure my kids are well taken care of even if it means keeping their mom comfortable (she is a great mother BTW) anyway thanks for the comments and the advice folks!

[Butterbean]

Let the scratching commence!

[~flower~]

She doesn't work and so you have to support her?   I didn't think full alimony was even granted anymore.   Get a job!!

[Laura Lee]

NO

lol, quick and to the point.  I like it!   

[~flower~]

Again, I think we are arguing over semantics... because i don't think that being selfish is always a bad thing.

  No, I don't think we are.  Selfish is not the right word.  Are you being "selfish" when you ask someone for money they owe you?  No. So how is it "selfish" when someone tells you to pay for something they caused to say "No, I think you should pay it".

  Jag I have a credit card bill here I think you should pay!  Don't be selfish!!!    

[Original Sin]

Okay so I feel like there is enough information that I can now comment.  Every story has three sides, His, Hers and the truth.  so far we have only been given his side but a few points have come out that might shed a little light onto hers.

In the beginning you were being selfish.  You agreed to pay for the course for your daughter and since you won't give any reasons why your wife made her miss the course it could be a multitude of things but like Jag said you originally said you would pay for the entire course.  Mistakes and accidents happen and since you said you would pay for the entire thing you should have put your daughter ahead of the extra costs.  Some men think a menstrual cycle is embarrassing, since we don't know the reason I am assuming it is a valid one in her eyes, but not in yours.  You said she is a good mother so I have to believe that she has her daughters interests at heart.

I am basing my opinion on the posts you have made later in this thread.  You have said that she is a good mother and she lives off alimony.  So unless you're pulling in well over 100K, she is going to be scraping by.  The cost for the course and the subsequent $50 might have been out of the budget and in her eyes you started the course and now that she didn't have the budget in the beginning you were putting your daughters course in jeopardy.  Who knows how many conversations that she and your daughter had about this prior to talking to you?  Even you don't know that.   How many Children is she raising on allotment?

The comment on the Deer again is only your side of the story and there has to be a lot of history behind it.  Nobody is going to wake up one morning and just say that, she arrived at those feelings over time.  You have tried to tell Flower and I how we should be acting on this board and this is only the Internet, what was it like in real life?

I will commend you on paying for the extra $50 though

[Hustle Man]

Okay so I feel like there is enough information that I can now comment.  Every story has three sides, His, Hers and the truth.  so far we have only been given his side but a few points have come out that might shed a little light onto hers.

In the beginning you were being selfish.  You agreed to pay for the course for your daughter and since you won't give any reasons why your wife made her miss the course it could be a multitude of things but like Jag said you originally said you would pay for the entire course.  Mistakes and accidents happen and since you said you would pay for the entire thing you should have put your daughter ahead of the extra costs.  Some men think a menstrual cycle is embarrassing, since we don't know the reason I am assuming it is a valid one in her eyes, but not in yours.  You said she is a good mother so I have to believe that she has her daughters interests at heart.

I am basing my opinion on the posts you have made later in this thread.  You have said that she is a good mother and she lives off alimony.  So unless you're pulling in well over 100K, she is going to be scraping by.  The cost for the course and the subsequent $50 might have been out of the budget and in her eyes you started the course and now that she didn't have the budget in the beginning you were putting your daughters course in jeopardy.  Who knows how many conversations that she and your daughter had about this prior to talking to you?  Even you don't know that.   How many Children is she raising on allotment?

The comment on the Deer again is only your side of the story and there has to be a lot of history behind it.  Nobody is going to wake up one morning and just say that, she arrived at those feelings over time.  You have tried to tell Flower and I how we should be acting on this board and this is only the Internet, what was it like in real life?

I will commend you on paying for the extra $50 though

She was late because she decided to stop off over a friends house and her friend invited her to good to the local gardening shop to look at the new exotics and she was an half hour late getting back to her house to meet the driving instructor; he even waited for a half hour before he decided to leave.

I give the story straight sister no games no gimmicks! I was not being selfish as Flower (my sister in arms) said  "...I have a credit card bill here I think you should pay!  Don't be selfish!!!"   it's the principle of the matter isn't that clear in this instance?

[Always Sore]

Hey wait a minute..If you wanted her to pay and she is living off your alimony and child support does that mean you would have paid either way... That is a lose lose situation... Next time suggest to her that you will buy a gun and rent a bullet and fix the problem yourself for good.

[Laura Lee]

Hey wait a minute..If you wanted her to pay and she is living off your alimony and child support does that mean you would have paid either way... That is a lose lose situation... Next time suggest to her that you will buy a gun and rent a bullet and fix the problem yourself for good.

That is not even funny AS   

[michael arvilla]

lol, quick and to the point.  I like it!   

 

[Original Sin]

She was late because she decided to stop off over a friends house and her friend invited her to good to the local gardening shop to look at the new exotics and she was an half hour late getting back to her house to meet the driving instructor; he even waited for a half hour before he decided to leave.

I give the story straight sister no games no gimmicks! I was not being selfish as Flower (my sister in arms) said  "...I have a credit card bill here I think you should pay!  Don't be selfish!!!"   it's the principle of the matter isn't that clear in this instance?

Clear in your eyes only.

Bottom line, YOU WERE BEING SELFISH! Was it warranted in this instance, maybe.  Was your wife right in her actions, not a snowballs chance in hell.  Even by Flowers definition of the word you displayed those actions.  You thought you were being manipulated, it was all about you, thus selfish.

You said you gave the story straight no gimmicks but you didn't tell us everything as to why she was late until now. This story came from you and we will always get your slant to the situation, it is just human nature.  Like a blatant example?  When Laura (sorry Laura but it is unfortunately the most obviously blunt example) was being abused I am sure he thought it was for her own good.  That was his stupid, fucked up, poor excuse for a human's side of the story.
But even that isn't the important point.  

I am young enough to remember getting my drivers license and at the time it is the most important thing in my life and I am sure it rates highly in your daughters life as it would in all teenagers.  You and your wife had this petty squabble over a lousy $50 and put her driver's course on hold or canceled, which remember how important it is.
You were both being selfish and forgot the improtant factor in this.  If I can see it so can she, nice job.

Is the principle of the matter even important compared to that?

[Laura Lee]

Clear in your eyes only.

Bottom line, YOU WERE BEING SELFISH! Was it warranted in this instance, maybe.  Was your wife right in her actions, not a snowballs chance in hell.  Even by Flowers definition of the word you displayed those actions.  You thought you were being manipulated, it was all about you, thus selfish.

You said you gave the story straight no gimmicks but you didn't tell us everything as to why she was late until now. This story came from you and we will always get your slant to the situation, it is just human nature.  Like a blatant example?  When Laura (sorry Laura but it is unfortunately the most obviously blunt example) was being abused I am sure he thought it was for her own good.  That was his stupid, fucked up, poor excuse for a human's side of the story.
But even that isn't the important point.  

I am young enough to remember getting my drivers license and at the time it is the most important thing in my life and I am sure it rates highly in your daughters life as it would in all teenagers.  You and your wife had this petty squabble over a lousy $50 and put her driver's course on hold or canceled, which remember how important it is.
You were both being selfish and forgot the improtant factor in this.  If I can see it so can she, nice job.

Is the principle of the matter even important compared to that?

But don't you agree that he should have tried to get the $50 from the wife as it seemed more important and selfish of her to decide to go to a friends house and then shopping over making sure her daughter was at her drivers ed class.  I believe that HM wouldn't have let his daughter go without getting back to class, but if he didn't approach her (the ex) and ask her for that fee, she would think she could just do as she pleases.  I am glad he was the bigger man (so to speak) and paid the fee, his daughter will respect him more for that and will understand that unfortunately the mother has "more important" things on her mind...than her daughter.

And as far as me and my ex and the abuse he gave me.  No, I don't think he thought it was for "my own" good he knew it was for "his own" good.  A batterer may say "I'm doing this for your own good" while beating on his/her partner, but in their minds "your own good is that you won't do it again because then you will remember you will suffer another beating".

[Original Sin]

I did commend him for doing the honorable thing and give the $50.

But he asked if he was being selfish and during that period when he felt he was being manipulated and wasn't going to take it, he was.  So I have to say yes he was being selfish, maybe it was justifiable in his eyes but in the true definition of the word it was a selfish act, however brief it may have been.

Maybe the question should have been changed.



and again I apologize if I stepped out of bounds with mentioning the stuff about your EX.

[24KT]

I guess this quarter only two of the 3 applicants into the "Man Club" will make the cut lol!  Jaggy I wish you could be a fly on the wall when my X and I have conversations such as these I think you would see the manipulation factor in full effect. She uses the kids to get her way because she knows that I love my kids and that I provide for them in everyway, I am very active in every part of their lives but she tries to make me out to be this selfish person (in front of the kids) just because I don't give in to her every whim. To my kids I am a man of integrity, fairness and above all honesty this scenario was not handled in fairness by my X and my daughter witnessed this. She came to me and said "Dad thank you for not arguing with her I think you were right..."

And FYI my X doesn't even work outside the home I support her fully through Alimony & child support! I didn't want to include that but she has it pretty good and I don't complain about that because I will do whatever it takes to ensure my kids are well taken care of even if it means keeping their mom comfortable (she is a great mother BTW) anyway thanks for the comments and the advice folks!

you gotta let me into the man club...
I gotta find not one, but at least 3 husbands ya know. I need access to the menfolk to be polygamous remember?

Ah poop... {kicks a pebble} men never like it when you tell them the truth. I guess I gotta be like all the others...
tell 'em what they want to hear, and laugh under my breath while they lap it up, and get their ego stroked. {sigh}

ps- If you thought you were so right... why did you pay the $50 afterall?
And yes, ...you did do the right thing, both by being selfish and standing up for yourself,
...but also by being selfless and paying the $50. it's just unfortunate that such a trivial amount can lead to such aggravation that you feel the need to air your frustration on a message board. You're still hanging onto the ex.