President Bush on Why We Continue The Fight in Iraq

[Decker]

This is from a David Brooks interview with the President.

BROOKS (7/17/07): I left the 110-minute session thinking that far from being worn down by the past few years, Bush seems empowered. His self-confidence is the most remarkable feature of his presidency.

All this will be taken as evidence by many that Bush is delusional. He's living in a cocoon. He doesn't see or can't face how badly the war is going and how awfully he has performed.

But Bush is not blind to the realities in Iraq. After all, he lives through the events we're not supposed to report on: the trips to Walter Reed, the hours and hours spent weeping with or being rebuffed by the families of the dead.

Rather, his self-confidence survives because it flows from two sources. The first is his unconquerable faith in the rightness of his Big Idea. Bush is convinced that history is moving in the direction of democracy, or as he said Friday: ''It's more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist.''http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071807.html

We are staying in Iraq b/c of the president's uassailable religious convictions.  The problem here is that religious conviction is not subject to mediation and compromise.

Politics is the art of compromising.  The highest political office is the presidency.  Isn't it a good thing to make reasonable decisions informed by one's religion instead of shitcanning all reason and embracing revealed truth as the foundation for US military policy?

Or am I alone on this one and we do live in a de facto theocracy?

[headhuntersix]

I honestly think the religious aspect is played up by those uncomfortable with the mans' faith. I think he's stubborn but he believes in what he is doing.

[big L dawg]

oil

[Dos Equis]

This is from a David Brooks interview with the President.

BROOKS (7/17/07): I left the 110-minute session thinking that far from being worn down by the past few years, Bush seems empowered. His self-confidence is the most remarkable feature of his presidency.

All this will be taken as evidence by many that Bush is delusional. He's living in a cocoon. He doesn't see or can't face how badly the war is going and how awfully he has performed.

But Bush is not blind to the realities in Iraq. After all, he lives through the events we're not supposed to report on: the trips to Walter Reed, the hours and hours spent weeping with or being rebuffed by the families of the dead.

Rather, his self-confidence survives because it flows from two sources. The first is his unconquerable faith in the rightness of his Big Idea. Bush is convinced that history is moving in the direction of democracy, or as he said Friday: ''It's more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist.''http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071807.html

We are staying in Iraq b/c of the president's uassailable religious convictions.  The problem here is that religious conviction is not subject to mediation and compromise.

Politics is the art of compromising.  The highest political office is the presidency.  Isn't it a good thing to make reasonable decisions informed by one's religion instead of shitcanning all reason and embracing revealed truth as the foundation for US military policy?

Or am I alone on this one and we do live in a de facto theocracy?

Not a theocracy.  Not even close.

He didn't say we are staying in Iraq because of his religious convictions. 

[Decker]

Not a theocracy.  Not even close.

He didn't say we are staying in Iraq because of his religious convictions. 

That's exactly what he's saying.  He's remarking that history is on a necessary course toward fulfilling the divine will for man's freedom through democratic politics.

That conclusion is not based on the enlightened reason of our founding fathers, it is based on religious conviction.  AS such, it is outside the scope of reasoned debate.

Bush's invasion of Iraq was really to spread democracy and freedom to the country and Bush is just doing the bidding of God.

Why, I can't challenge the man's faith even though he's using it to justify his foreign policy and a war.

Just like I can't criticize the war in Iraq b/c that hurts the troops.

You can't criticize God and by extension, the troops and the president.

Here's another pattern emerging which clips criticism off at the root.

[Dos Equis]

That's exactly what he's saying.  He's remarking that history is on a necessary course toward fulfilling the divine will for man's freedom through democratic politics.

That conclusion is not based on the enlightened reason of our founding fathers, it is based on religious conviction.  AS such, it is outside the scope of reasoned debate.

Bush's invasion of Iraq was really to spread democracy and freedom to the country and Bush is just doing the bidding of God.

Why, I can't challenge the man's faith even though he's using it to justify his foreign policy and a war.

Just like I can't criticize the war in Iraq b/c that hurts the troops.

You can't criticize God and by extension, the troops and the president.

Here's another pattern emerging which clips criticism off at the root.

What he said, exactly, was:  ''It's more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist.'' 

Doesn't say we are in Iraq because of his religious convictions.   

[Straw Man]

What he said, exactly, was:  ''It's more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist.'' 

Doesn't say we are in Iraq because of his religious convictions.   

if the gift of the Almighty to all is freedom then why are there so many passages in the Bible about the proper way to treat your slaves and also passages directed to slaves as to how they should view and interact with their masters?

[Decker]

What he said, exactly, was:  ''It's more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist.'' 

Doesn't say we are in Iraq because of his religious convictions.   

Why we continue to fight in Iraq is the topic--not why we went there in the first place.

"...And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist."

And what principle is that?

"I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom."

And in what context was that statement made?

The statement was made in reference to Bush's view of history and how that involves the war in Iraq in a Q&A session w/ Brooks at the Whitehouse.

Context, context, context.

Let's not forget these gems from the past too (he's on a mission from God): 

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

"You know he is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to..."

[Dos Equis]

Why we continue to fight in Iraq is the topic--not why we went there in the first place.

"...And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn't exist."

And what principle is that?

"I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom."

And in what context was that statement made?

The statement was made in reference to Bush's view of history and how that involves the war in Iraq in a Q&A session w/ Brooks at the Whitehouse.

Context, context, context.

Let's not forget these gems from the past too (he's on a mission from God): 

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

"You know he is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to..."

Since you mention context . . . are you quoting Bush or someone who claims to be repeating statements Bush made?  And hasn't he and/or the White House denied making some of those statements? 

[Decker]

Since you mention context . . . are you quoting Bush or someone who claims to be repeating statements Bush made?  And hasn't he and/or the White House denied making some of those statements? 

Come on Beach Bum, I report and you decide.

[Dos Equis]

Come on Beach Bum, I report and you decide.

lol.  Okay.  I have decided that you posted alleged direct quotes from Bush, without indicating that those "quotes" are actually second, third, or fourth hand comments allegedly made by Bush to someone else, which Bush and/or the White House has denied making.  How did I do?   

[Colossus_500]

lol.  Okay.  I have decided that you posted alleged direct quotes from Bush, without indicating that those "quotes" are actually second, third, or fourth hand comments allegedly made by Bush to someone else, which Bush and/or the White House has denied making.  How did I do?   

That sounds about right to me.   

[Decker]

lol.  Okay.  I have decided that you posted alleged direct quotes from Bush, without indicating that those "quotes" are actually second, third, or fourth hand comments allegedly made by Bush to someone else, which Bush and/or the White House has denied making.  How did I do?   

It's a case of Bush making the quote and then denying it.  Or maybe the interviewer pulled it out of his ass?  Here's his assessment:

"President Bush said that God guided him in what he should do, and this guidance led him to go to Afghanistan to rid it of terrorism after 9/11 and led him to Iraq to fight tyranny," Abbas said in that interview, according to the BBC Web site. "We understood that he was illustrating (in his comments) his strong faith and his belief that this is what God wanted." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/08/MNGL9F4JRR1.DTL

Here's the article with quotation from Israel's most reputable newspaper.  http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

So Bush prays to God and God talks back with instructions on how to run US foreign policy.  In my eyes, that is either insanity or a rhetorical ploy.

[Dos Equis]

It's a case of Bush making the quote and then denying it.  Or maybe the interviewer pulled it out of his ass?  Here's his assessment:

"President Bush said that God guided him in what he should do, and this guidance led him to go to Afghanistan to rid it of terrorism after 9/11 and led him to Iraq to fight tyranny," Abbas said in that interview, according to the BBC Web site. "We understood that he was illustrating (in his comments) his strong faith and his belief that this is what God wanted." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/08/MNGL9F4JRR1.DTL

Here's the article with quotation from Israel's most reputable newspaper.  http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

So Bush prays to God and God talks back with instructions on how to run US foreign policy.  In my eyes, that is either insanity or a rhetorical ploy.

From your first link:

The White House is denying President Bush ever told top Palestinian officials that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and to work for the establishment of a Palestinian state in order to bring peace to the Middle East.

White House spokesman Ken Lisaius told The Chronicle Friday that the allegation was absurd. "He never made such comments," Lisaius said. He cited a briefing Thursday in which presidential press secretary Scott McClellan also denied that Bush had made such comments at a 2003 meeting in Jordan with Mahmoud Abbas, then the Palestinian prime minister, and Nabil Shaath, then the Palestinian foreign minister. McClellan said he had not been present at the meeting but had "checked into that report."

. . .

McClellan's briefing
Question: Are you aware of the -- there's a BBC broadcast tonight that's quoting the Palestinian Prime Minister and Foreign Minister as saying that they were in a meeting with the president in June of '03, and there are some very detailed quotes here, saying that the president said to them, "God told me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan,' and I did," and then "God told me, 'George go and end the tyranny in the Iraq'" and so forth and so on?

McCLELLAN: No, that's absurd. He's never made such comments.

Q: Were you in the meeting when that took place?

McCLELLAN: I've been in meetings with him with President Abbas; I didn't travel on that trip, if you're talking about to Jordan. But I've been in many meetings with the president with world leaders where he's talked about this.

Q: So you don't know about the June '03 meeting?

McCLELLAN: No, I checked into that report, and I stand by what I just said.

 

[Decker]

From your first link:

The White House is denying President Bush ever told top Palestinian officials that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and to work for the establishment of a Palestinian state in order to bring peace to the Middle East.

White House spokesman Ken Lisaius told The Chronicle Friday that the allegation was absurd. "He never made such comments," Lisaius said. He cited a briefing Thursday in which presidential press secretary Scott McClellan also denied that Bush had made such comments at a 2003 meeting in Jordan with Mahmoud Abbas, then the Palestinian prime minister, and Nabil Shaath, then the Palestinian foreign minister. McClellan said he had not been present at the meeting but had "checked into that report."

. . .

McClellan's briefing
Question: Are you aware of the -- there's a BBC broadcast tonight that's quoting the Palestinian Prime Minister and Foreign Minister as saying that they were in a meeting with the president in June of '03, and there are some very detailed quotes here, saying that the president said to them, "God told me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan,' and I did," and then "God told me, 'George go and end the tyranny in the Iraq'" and so forth and so on?

McCLELLAN: No, that's absurd. He's never made such comments.

Q: Were you in the meeting when that took place?

McCLELLAN: I've been in meetings with him with President Abbas; I didn't travel on that trip, if you're talking about to Jordan. But I've been in many meetings with the president with world leaders where he's talked about this.

Q: So you don't know about the June '03 meeting?

McCLELLAN: No, I checked into that report, and I stand by what I just said.

 

So McClellan wasn't there when Bush made the quote but he "checked into that report" and is certain the quote wasn't made.

That is what we in the Royal Navy call a 'lie'...or an unsubstantiated denial.

You have to admit though, the president wears his faith on his sleeve and says some pretty dumb things about it.

[Dos Equis]

So McClellan wasn't there when Bush made the quote but he "checked into that report" and is certain the quote wasn't made.

That is what we in the Royal Navy call a 'lie'...or an unsubstantiated denial.

You have to admit though, the president wears his faith on his sleeve and says some pretty dumb things about it.

What we have is an allegation that Bush made comments and Bush denies making those comments.  I just think it's more accurate to qualify those alleged comments from Bush. 

I admit Bush says some dumb things and is probably the worst public speaker to ever inhabit the White House.  He is also very open about his faith.  So was Bill Clinton.