Author Topic: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!  (Read 7262 times)

Special Ed

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PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« on: July 26, 2007, 10:05:12 PM »
AP: New details on Tillman's death

By MARTHA MENDOZA, AP National Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
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"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

• In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

• Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

• The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

• No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."


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GonnaRuckYou

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2007, 10:18:28 PM »
Thats some fucked up corrupt shit right there.

gordiano

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2007, 10:26:47 PM »
Unfucking real.............. >:(


His poor family...... :'(
HAHA, RON.....

tommywishbone

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2007, 10:41:50 PM »
I'm not too sure how smart it is, to talk trash to a man holding an M16. (If, the story is accurate)
a

roc

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 10:42:06 PM »
wow that's great stuff you posted. president bush can't get out of his own way! i feel for the tillman family. who else is going to lie to them?

Croatch

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 10:52:26 PM »
Our government...Epic Intergrity!!  haha
This is why you can never believe shit they tell you, such as the reasons for the Iraqi war, etc.  I'd rather live here than another country though, for sure.  #1 reason I would never join the military.  You'll be out lynching some brown people for a reason that is make believe...sounds great!
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Cleanest Natural

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2007, 11:55:41 PM »
I'm not too sure how smart it is, to talk trash to a man holding an M16. (If, the story is accurate)
[/quote If u are afraid to put a girlie man in line for being a little b itch because he has a gun then why join the army?

rockyfortune

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 05:44:38 AM »
i've been saying this from day one

people resented this guy for who he was...no one gave up millon dollar contracts to join up so no one gives a shit about the no name guys..but pat tillman became (or was portrayed by espn) as some fucking gi fucking joe american hero...it won't surprise me if he was fragged...
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HalloweenMan

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 05:58:07 AM »
what ranger unit still uses m-16s? 
which active army infantry unit still uses m-16's? 
none. 
also, i think there might be some truth to this, but random facts in there dont add up. 
F

nycbull

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2007, 06:26:18 AM »
i've been saying this from day one

people resented this guy for who he was...no one gave up millon dollar contracts to join up so no one gives a shit about the no name guys..but pat tillman became (or was portrayed by espn) as some fucking gi fucking joe american hero...it won't surprise me if he was fragged...

true, he probably went over there as some hero and was acting like he was in charge, telling people what to do, how they should act. They probably hated him for that. 

delta9mda

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2007, 06:48:58 AM »
what ranger unit still uses m-16s? 
which active army infantry unit still uses m-16's? 
none. 
also, i think there might be some truth to this, but random facts in there dont add up. 
they use the m4, same bullet 5.56mm.

thewickedtruth

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2007, 06:58:00 AM »
they use the m4, same bullet 5.56mm.
Yep. M4's...shooting .223's. Screamer of a bullet. Flat shooting and good penetration. Problem is they have no knock down power unless you plant 3 to the dome from 10 feet away apparenlty. Problem with the .223 is, they just punch holes in the targets and htey keep coming. Not a very smart choice IMHO for a MIL ISSUE WEAPON SYSTEM!

jaejonna

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2007, 07:00:08 AM »
Thats what happens when a millionaire guy is doing the 'army' thing for himself when he is surrounded by white trash and urban poor who have nothing else ...jealosy is a beeeaattch ..
L

rockyfortune

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2007, 07:03:06 AM »
Thats what happens when a millionaire guy is doing the 'army' thing for himself when he is surrounded by white trash and urban poor who have nothing else ...jealosy is a beeeaattch ..



being portrayed as he was...he stood out in the army..and the military doesn't like that shit...it's more about resentment than jealousy--i'm sure the commanders probably didn't give two shits about pat flippin' tillman as well as the regular soldiers. 
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chainsaw

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2007, 07:07:26 AM »
I'm not too sure how smart it is, to talk trash to a man holding an M16. (If, the story is accurate)

He was a squadron leader.
Most are all show no go!

thewickedtruth

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2007, 07:09:43 AM »
He was a squadron leader.

No shit. And they're rangers. They're supposed to be tough enough to handle a little lip from their SO. 

chainsaw

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2007, 07:10:28 AM »
what ranger unit still uses m-16s? 
which active army infantry unit still uses m-16's? 
none. 
also, i think there might be some truth to this, but random facts in there dont add up. 

When they say M16, they are referring to the .223 round I assume.  Like when they say steroids, and tell some non bodybuilder testosterone, they would never think test is what steroids are.
Most are all show no go!

chainsaw

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2007, 07:12:56 AM »
No shit. And they're rangers. They're supposed to be tough enough to handle a little lip from their SO. 

exactly, they don't make them liked they used too. 
Most are all show no go!

thewickedtruth

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2007, 07:17:58 AM »
exactly, they don't make them liked they used too. 

Ain't that the truth. I know it sounds like I'm talking shit about the military. I tried to join awhile back when the IRAQ war started. Figured I shouldn't be one of those people that bitched but weren't willing to do anything about it. Well they said my bp of 130/80 was too high to join and that I should be put on blood pressure meds. I had the cheif MO and two other doc's take it manually and they said I was fine but the machine that took it said I wasn't, so I was told to either jump through more hoops than a circus act or shine them on. I told them to shove it.

This kinda shit tough, makes you wonder what really went down. They talked tillman up big and to be canned like that would be bad press. So I'm sure that's what the cover up was for.


rockyfortune

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2007, 07:25:32 AM »
Ain't that the truth. I know it sounds like I'm talking shit about the military. I tried to join awhile back when the IRAQ war started. Figured I shouldn't be one of those people that bitched but weren't willing to do anything about it. Well they said my bp of 130/80 was too high to join and that I should be put on blood pressure meds. I had the cheif MO and two other doc's take it manually and they said I was fine but the machine that took it said I wasn't, so I was told to either jump through more hoops than a circus act or shine them on. I told them to shove it.

This kinda shit tough, makes you wonder what really went down. They talked tillman up big and to be canned like that would be bad press. So I'm sure that's what the cover up was for.





you should have found a new MEPS station...they all work differently...
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thewickedtruth

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2007, 07:31:56 AM »


you should have found a new MEPS station...they all work differently...

You know at that point I didn't give a shit after my 3rd visit back.  ;D

I wonder what else will surface in this tillman case. If they'll publically make and example of someone or keep the guys underwraps.

chainsaw

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2007, 07:41:31 AM »
Ain't that the truth. I know it sounds like I'm talking shit about the military. I tried to join awhile back when the IRAQ war started. Figured I shouldn't be one of those people that bitched but weren't willing to do anything about it. Well they said my bp of 130/80 was too high to join and that I should be put on blood pressure meds. I had the cheif MO and two other doc's take it manually and they said I was fine but the machine that took it said I wasn't, so I was told to either jump through more hoops than a circus act or shine them on. I told them to shove it.

This kinda shit tough, makes you wonder what really went down. They talked tillman up big and to be canned like that would be bad press. So I'm sure that's what the cover up was for.


That machine did you a favor.
Most are all show no go!

thewickedtruth

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2007, 07:44:07 AM »
That machine did you a favor.

You're not the first person to say that.  ;D

HalloweenMan

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2007, 07:45:40 AM »
Ain't that the truth. I know it sounds like I'm talking shit about the military. I tried to join awhile back when the IRAQ war started. Figured I shouldn't be one of those people that bitched but weren't willing to do anything about it. Well they said my bp of 130/80 was too high to join and that I should be put on blood pressure meds. I had the cheif MO and two other doc's take it manually and they said I was fine but the machine that took it said I wasn't, so I was told to either jump through more hoops than a circus act or shine them on. I told them to shove it.

This kinda shit tough, makes you wonder what really went down. They talked tillman up big and to be canned like that would be bad press. So I'm sure that's what the cover up was for.



my bp was higher than that when i joined.  140/85 and they just signed the paper and sent me to the next station.  like the other guy said, that machine did you the biggest favor of your life.  
also, i only mentioned the m-16 not being used anymore because its not used if you are in an infantry unit, much less a ranger batallion.  only pogue jobs national guard get those.  i know it shoots the same round, but if thats an official report, you think they would specify the type of round used and not say m-16 when those havent been used by frontline infantry unit in years, unless you are marines, then thats another story.  
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The Squadfather

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Re: PAT TILLMAN INTENTIONALLY GUNNED DOWN BY FELLOW RANGERS!
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2007, 08:00:34 AM »
AP: New details on Tillman's death

By MARTHA MENDOZA, AP National Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
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"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

• In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

• Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

• The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

• No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."



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