The JFK thread

[Hedgehog]

Lets get it on.

I've seen the usual stuff, the JFK movie, but also some History Channel documentary, and something that was aired on the Beeb.

From what I gather, it seems like there was a plan to kill Kennedy.

Who? Perhaps a small group of politicians, who believed Kennedy was a political liability.

I do not think that Kennedy was some kind of great politician, the next Roosevelt or something like that.

But I think he was removed.

And not by Oswald.

Jack Ruby killing Oswald is just one out of many peculiar circumstances.

[OzmO]

Let's start with 3 shots fired in 8.4 seconds from a Mannlicher-Carcano bolt action rifle that was advertised as fast firing and fast loading.

Do this at home:

Bang (start the clock) first shot

Bang! second shot 3.5 seconds

Bang! third shot 8.4 seconds

His gun was presighted and resting on a tower of books.

If you timed yourself you'd see this was very do-able.

Add that to the fact Oswald was a qualified sharpshooter in the marines.  He would hit a bullseye 48-49 times out of 50 at 200 yards. 

JFK was traveling away from him with the first shot starting at about 80 yards.

[Camel Jockey]

JFK loved H. Upmann stogies!

[OzmO]

those look pretty good   

[Hedgehog]

Let's start with 3 shots fired in 8.4 seconds from a Mannlicher-Carcano bolt action rifle that was advertised as fast firing and fast loading.

Do this at home:

Bang (start the clock) first shot

Bang! second shot 3.5 seconds

Bang! third shot 8.4 seconds

His gun was presighted and resting on a tower of books.

If you timed yourself you'd see this was very do-able.

Add that to the fact Oswald was a qualified sharpshooter in the marines.  He would hit a bullseye 48-49 times out of 50 at 200 yards. 

JFK was traveling away from him with the first shot starting at about 80 yards.

hahaha.

If what you tell me is true, and I have absolutely no reason to doubt you, I may have to change my mind as well.

Didn't know about Oswald being a sharpshooter.

I would really like to get some cold facts, so I won't walk around like a fawking idit on this one.

Edit: I will get the book by Begliosi.

[Hugo Chavez]

To me, the conversation can't even start until this movie has been reviewed.  It just contains way to many valid considerations...  This is the first video I've seen that brought focus (caught on video) on the Secret Service being pulled out of the way of the shot and that's not even remotely close to the best info in this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9137354720737304741&q=genre%3Aeducational+is%3Afree

[Hedgehog]

To me, the conversation can't even start until this movie has been reviewed.  It just contains way to many valid considerations...  This is the first video I've seen that brought focus (caught on video) on the Secret Service being pulled out of the way of the shot and that's not even remotely close to the best info in this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9137354720737304741&q=genre%3Aeducational+is%3Afree

I will watch it.

But if it's Alex Jones and PrisonPlanet who's behind it, what, if any, of the movie can be trusted for facticity?


I've heard Alex Jones make ridiculous assumptions from political events too many times on his show to have even the slightest trust in him.

That's sad really.

Because what if he's right this time? He's been wrong 9999 times before. But is this the 10 000th time? In all likelyhood not. But what if?

Somebody should have a word with Alex Jones about stopping spreading unsubstanciated claims. It only makes him unreliable.

[Hugo Chavez]

I will watch it.

But if it's Alex Jones and PrisonPlanet who's behind it, what, if any, of the movie can be trusted for facticity?


I've heard Alex Jones make ridiculous assumptions from political events too many times on his show to have even the slightest trust in him.

That's sad really.

Because what if he's right this time? He's been wrong 9999 times before. But is this the 10 000th time? In all likelyhood not. But what if?

Somebody should have a word with Alex Jones about stopping spreading unsubstanciated claims. It only makes him unreliable.

You want "facticity" well let's talk about that for a second... I may be wrong, but I believe Alex Jones is a sponsor, but not who's behind it.  with that said, I put more behind what I hear from Alex Jones being close to the truth than just about any fucking major media outlet in America.  Simple hardcore truth to it bubba.  With that said, I don't even nullify everything coming from the major media outlets even knowing how much they lie their asses off on a daily basis... Because most often there are important elements of truth in everything and it's up to us to examine and scrutinize and come up with truth from multiple sources where it may have never existed from a single source anywhere.  Been there done that way to many times, this is the way of things...  There is bias and lies everywhere... EVERYWHERE... Even where this is the best of intentions... Period... This documentary has important factual elements that can't be missed, nothing more, nothing less...

[OzmO]

To me, the conversation can't even start until this movie has been reviewed.  It just contains way to many valid considerations...  This is the first video I've seen that brought focus (caught on video) on the Secret Service being pulled out of the way of the shot and that's not even remotely close to the best info in this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9137354720737304741&q=genre%3Aeducational+is%3Afree

At what point (time line) in the movie does is the Secret Service thing get talked about?

In the first ten minutes or so i haven't seen much of anything concrete.

-  Body movement from gun shots have been proven to be very random and unpredictable.

-  The narrator assumes people on the grassy knoll where ducking from shots fired from the grassy knoll.  How about they were ducking from shots fired in general?

-  1978 study of wittinesses (178 of them) statements by the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations) 46 witnesses said the shots came from the book depository, 21 from the grassy knoll, 29 from other directions, and 78 couldn't tell.  why?  probably becuase there was an echo in the plaza and mass confusion.

I'll get to the autopsy in a day or so.  Lot to read.

Also Malcom Kilder, pointing to his head.  Doesn't mean much as he could have been pointing to indicate the head in general.



 

[Hugo Chavez]

At what point (time line) in the movie does is the Secret Service thing get talked about?

In the first ten minutes or so i haven't seen much of anything concrete.

I don't know at what point, it's been months since I watched it, maybe a year.  You will not get a concrete case closed on JFK from this documentary.... In my opinion what you will get is several factors that shouldn't be left out of the debate.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If it were a case closed documentary, we'd all know about it.  What it is is a good documentary that brings up a lot of good elements that should be considered.  The part where the SS man gets called back is pretty damaging imo...  The guy gets yelled at and called away from his position... He happened to also be running in the line of fire.  His instint when called off is to give a WTF shoulder shrug to the man calling him off.  Does it prove conspiracy, well hell no, should it be considered in the overall examination of things, hell yes...

[OzmO]

I don't know at what point, it's been months since I watched it, maybe a year.  You will not get a concrete case closed on JFK from this documentary.... In my opinion what you will get is several factors that shouldn't be left out of the debate.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If it were a case closed documentary, we'd all know about it.  What it is is a good documentary that brings up a lot of good elements that should be considered.  The part where the SS man gets called back is pretty damaging imo...  The guy gets yelled at and called away from his position... He happened to also be running in the line of fire.  His instint when called off is to give a WTF shoulder shrug to the man calling him off.  Does it prove conspiracy, well hell no, should it be considered in the overall examination of things, hell yes...

ok,

i'll keep watching off and on until i see it.

[Hugo Chavez]

I say watch the video and don't be afraid to call bullshit on something, but don't nullify everything contained in the movie because there's something off... Fact is very little can pass that test with everyone...

[OzmO]

I say watch the video and don't be afraid to call bullshit on something, but don't nullify everything contained in the movie because there's something off... Fact is very little can pass that test with everyone...

When the narrator was talking about Dr. Humes he insinuated that he was hand picked by the government and was the only one doing the autopsy.  This is a good example of how videos like these paint an incorrect picture and bend fact to get the viewer to conclude a falsity.

Facts:

-  Hume was certified to what he did. (autopsies) and had performed over 1000 of them.  Mostly death by natural cause.

-  He was the senior Doctor in Bethesda for autopsies.

-  He had in fact do autopsies with death from gun shot wounds.

-  He was one of THREE other doctors who performed the autopsy.


I'll watch more tonite.

I have a feeling though the secret service thing will only be significant with the idea that there was a shooter in the grassy knoll which at the end of the day there isn't a shred of concrete evidence or eye witness to that notion.

[rockyfortune]

e howard hunt stated that that polecat lyndon johnson did it!