Attitudes Toward the Bible

[loco]

And if God was so Omnipresent he'd just make them vanish but instead he tells a person like you to stab a 3 year boy with a spear.

 


The Bible is the full of crap.

Yes, and while He is at it, why not make all bad people vanish right now?

[OzmO]

So you are saying that the righteous thing to do was for the Israelites to adopt all the children 2 and under?

The correct thing to do would have been to NOT slaughter an entire nation and If in doing so to take care of the innocent children ages 0-16 you left without parents.  Or if even 16 was considered adult then, then all of a lesser age.

[OzmO]

Yes, and while He is at it, why not make all bad people vanish right now?

So instead he gets people like you to stick a metal spear in the stomach of a 3 year boy while his guts spill out and people like you say:


Praise the the Lord?


 

[loco]

The correct thing to do would have been to NOT slaughter an entire nation and If in doing so to take care of the innocent children ages 0-16 you left without parents.  Or if even 16 was considered adult then, then all of a lesser age.

And who would you slaughter and who would you not?  Who lives and who dies?  How do you separate them?

0-16?  You believe hundreds of teenagers are not going to grow up to avenge their parents?

You don't believe teenagers are by then as wicked as their parents?  Remember, many generations of them, over a period of hundreds of years committed wickedness against Israel and surrounding nations.

[loco]

So instead he gets people like you to stick a metal spear in the stomach of a 3 year boy while his guts spill out and people like you say:


Praise the the Lord?


 

Attacking me and my faith, and acting hateful toward me does not make your arguments any better or any stronger.

[OzmO]

And who would you slaughter and who would you not?  Who lives and who dies?  How do you separate them?

0-16?  You don't believe hundreds of teenagers are not going to grow up to avenge their parents?

You don't believe teenagers are by then as wicked as their parents?  Remember, many generations of them, over a period of hundreds of years committed wickedness against Israel and surrounding nations.

I don't believe in killing someone for something they might end up doing when they grow up.   

Obviously you do.

How about this loco, based on your beliefs, how about  following the example of the bible and go and find children in some inner city ghetto and kill them now.  they are sure  to be drug dealers who kill for money aren't they?   


And who to slaughter and who not to?   did they kill every last Germen in WW2?   OMG......  you are either really no very bright or willing to sacrifice your intelligence just to try and win a point in a debate.

[OzmO]

Attacking me and my faith, and acting hateful toward me does not make your arguments any better or any stronger.

Way to dodge the issue again.   


YOUR FAITH justifies killing children.

[loco]

I don't believe in killing someone for something they might end up doing when they grow up.   

Obviously you do.

Sure, OzmO.  Whatever you say.  

How about this loco, based on your beliefs, how about  following the example of the bible and go and find children in some inner city ghetto and kill them now.  they are sure  to be drug dealers who kill for money aren't they?   

Based on my beliefs, I would never do that because, not only do I not want to, but God has not commanded me to do so in the Bible.  So, by you own logic,  I am being very obedient to God's word by not doing what you just asked me to do.  

What a wonderful analogy.  

[loco]

Way to dodge the issue again.   


YOUR FAITH justifies killing children.

Yeah, okay.   

So according to OzmO, all Jews and Christians are child killers.   

When you start discussing the debate like an adult again, we will continue this.

[OzmO]

Sure, OzmO.  Whatever you say.   

You are the one justifying killing children not me.

Based on my beliefs, I would never do that because, not only do I not want to, but God has not commanded me to do so in the Bible.  So, by you own logic,  I am being very obedient to God's word by not doing what you just asked me to do. 

What a wonderful analogy.   Roll Eyes

But if God told you, you would.  right?  You'd stick that spear in the little boys gut wouldn't you?   

[OzmO]

Yeah, okay.   

So according to OzmO, all Jews and Christians are child killers.   

When you start discussing the debate like an adult again, we will continue this.

Now you are putting words in my mouth.  Did i say all Christians and Jews were child killers?   

Your faith JUSTIFIES KILLING CHILDREN.  Is that not what you and i have been talking about this morning the Divine legitimacy of the Bible story of God telling his people to kill children?

When you start discussing the debate like an adult again, we will continue this.

VERY Classic thing with you loco.  When it starts getting real you cry foul and run.

[columbusdude82]

So they did not know until they had already killed her?

They didn't kill her. They just stopped artificially forcing nutrients into her blood... she was already dead.

[Butterbean]

Not to sidetrack and you may have answered this before OzmO but I forgot if you did:

Are you Pro-Choice?


I would also be interested in columbusdude's answer to this.  Thanks

[columbusdude82]

I am for allowing abortion in cases of incest, rape, of when the mother's life is in danger.

I am against allowing abortion after the first few weeks, say. I am definitely against it after the fetus develops a nervous system, because then it will experience pain...

As for the few weeks, I am not sure. Mother Nature herself doesn't seem "pro-life," given how many pregnancies she terminates.

I am for educating people, teaching them to use contraception properly, and if unwanted pregnancies occur, to make sure they are fully aware of their other options, such as adoption.

Abortion is always a regrettable thing.

[OzmO]

Not to sidetrack and you may have answered this before OzmO but I forgot if you did:

Are you Pro-Choice?


I would also be interested in columbusdude's answer to this.  Thanks

I am against abortion.   I would never support an abortion of a baby i conceived and i would and have strongly encouraged anyone who is thinking of having an abortion not to do it. 

However, because of the issues resulting from illegal abortion, i am pro-choice and believe Women can make their own choice and in turn take up it with God and as a result will be accountable for committing murder.

[OzmO]

Killing children.


Obviously there has been some heated debate regarding this issue.  We can all agree that In the Bible when God orders the killing of an entire nation of people he is also ordering the killing of Children which also includes the killing of elderly men and women, infants, todlers, mentally disabled, para and quadriplegics etc...

Some of the arguments for this have been:

from overcome:

I have friends who have shrapnel in there legs and sides because of children, and they have friends that got shipped home in boxes because of these children...

if you really think that children cannot be evil, and don't learn from there parents early in there life you are an idiot.  most behavior is picked up early in the early stages of a persons life, anyone who is educated will tell you this.  why do you think things like breast feeding have such a big impact on a persons life?
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you don't get it much do you, the nations God ordered to be killed were wicked.  worse then the taliban training camps we see over here.  when the men are killed the women will raise the children to be like there fathers, when both parents are killed the children will carry on there parents hatred.  we weren't there, so we will never know, but trust me man, i have seen some evil children and women, and i don't see half the shit my buddies do
________________________ ________________________ _______________

tell me what your plan would be for that situation then? if there soldiers are dead but the women and older children pick up arms against you and all that is left is children to young to take care of themselves?

and I'm not trying to say this is what God wants or saying its justified by the bible, I'm telling you a real life situation.  since your so righteous why don't you tell me what should be done.
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no i think we should kill all the adults and older children then leave the 2 year olds Roll Eyes

there is arguements for evething, you have fun finding all of them.

from loco:

There was no Red Cross, no United Nations, no social workers, no orphanages.

Really, what would have been the righteous thing to do in your opinion, to leave the infants behind to die of thirst, hunger, or to be eaten by wild beasts?  What would you have done?  Just curious.
________________________ ________________________ _______________

In other words...you don't know.  It's okay.  Many people jump at the opportunity to attack the Bible without knowing all the facts and without giving it much thought. 

So you do justify leaving infants behind to die slow, painful deaths.
________________________ ________________________ ________________

So you are saying that the righteous thing to do was for the Israelites to adopt all the children 2 and under?
________________________ ________________________ ________________

What about mercy killing--refugees that kill their own small children to keep them from being tortured, enslaved, mutilated, and/or then killed horribly by their tormentors?
 
What about the labor room, where either the mother or the baby may live, but not both?
________________________ ________________________ _________________

And who would you slaughter and who would you not?  Who lives and who dies?  How do you separate them?

0-16?  You believe hundreds of teenagers are not going to grow up to avenge their parents?

You don't believe teenagers are by then as wicked as their parents?  Remember, many generations of them, over a period of hundreds of years committed wickedness against Israel and surrounding nations.
________________________ ________________________ __________________

Attacking me and my faith, and acting hateful toward me does not make your arguments any better or any stronger.
________________________ ________________________ __________________


Yeah, okay.    Roll Eyes

So according to OzmO, all Jews and Christians are child killers.    Roll Eyes

When you start discussing the debate like an adult again, we will continue this.

[OzmO]

I'm going to say it again.

There is no justification for killing children.

The arguments presented above are absurd.

Becuase there is no Red Cross, United nations etc.. the children get a spear in their gut?

Becuase we don't have a place for the children (which in fact is far from true) the children get a spear in their gut?

Because we have friends who have shrapnel in their legs other  children get a spear in their gut?

Becuase we MIGHT have hundreds of teenagers wanting to avenge their parents the children get a spear in their gut?  (this sounds like the mafia)



Frankly, I am disgusted that anyone who justify the killing of children and if this is what it means to be a Christian, supporting the "Word of God" in the Bible, the parts where he orders the killing of children, I want no part of it.

The good thing is that there are some level headed Christians who realize the source of the OT and put it in it's proper perspective understanding the OT is more History than the WOG.

This is a passionate point for me because i do have Children and will not sacrifice my soul with a dismissal of a child's unneeded barbaric murder justified as the Word of God.

[columbusdude82]

I'm going to say it again.

There is no justification for killing children.

Ozmo, let's put it in words the Bible-thumpers can understand...

Whatever happened to: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL"

[OzmO]

Ozmo, let's put it in words the Bible-thumpers can understand...

Whatever happened to: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL"

Here's the explanation as I've understood it on this forum:


If God orders the killing it's ok because he created the life to begin with.

In other words, God, has no moral accountability as the creator and it is never in question that the men who did the killing on God's order actually did get orders from God.  It's just assumed.


Unbelievable the way we can justify aristocracies isn't? 

[columbusdude82]

Yes, Ozmo. Once again, as Voltaire said,

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.

[loco]

They didn't kill her. They just stopped artificially forcing nutrients into her blood... she was already dead.

 

[loco]

Yes, Ozmo. Once again, as Voltaire said,

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities."

I actually agree with this.  That is a great quote.  But I neither believe absurdities, nor do I commit atrocities.

[loco]

I'm going to say it again.

There is no justification for killing children.

So, No, you DON'T believe that there is any justification for killing children.  Absolutely no, under no circumstances, no exceptions.

However, because of the issues resulting from illegal abortion, i am pro-choice

So, YES, you DO believe that the killing of babies is justified.

There is no justification for killing children.

So, No, you DON'T believe that there is any justification for killing children.  Absolutely no, under no circumstances, no exceptions.

The correct thing to do would have been to NOT slaughter an entire nation and If in doing so to take care of the innocent children ages 0-16 you left without parents.  Or if even 16 was considered adult then, then all of a lesser age.

I see you changed your quote.  Change your mind?.  First you said that you would kill everyone 17 and older.  Then you went back and changed it.

So, YES, you DO justify the killing of children.

Ozmo, let's put it in words the Bible-thumpers can understand...

Whatever happened to: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL"

So, No, you DON'T believe that there is any justification for killing children.  Absolutely no, under no circumstances, no exceptions.

I am for allowing abortion in cases of incest, rape, of when the mother's life is in danger.

So, YES, you DO justify the killing of children.

OzmO and columbusdude82, you guys are being very inconsistent and hypocritical.

[OzmO]

So, No, you DON'T believe that there is any justification for killing children.  Absolutely no, under no circumstances, no exceptions.

So, YES, you DO believe that the killing of babies is justified.
 

I'm more than happy to cut and paste what i said earlier for effect:

I am against abortion.   I would never support an abortion of a baby i conceived and i would and have strongly encouraged anyone who is thinking of having an abortion not to do it.

However, because of the issues resulting from illegal abortion, i am pro-choice and believe Women can make their own choice and in turn take up it with God and as a result will be accountable for committing murder.

there are 2 lines of approach: 

1.  What the law says
2.  Your own personal morals

Just becuase the law allows ................"slavery" (like in the Bible) doesn't mean I'm justified by having them.  My moral compass is strong enough for me to know it's wrong.

Just as in Abortion.  Unfortunately, many women don't see it that way and if there was a law against abortion they would have them done anyway at greater risk to the health fo the mother as well as still killing the baby.  Making against the law will NOT stop it.

I see you changed your quote.  Change your mind?.  First you said that you would kill everyone 17 and older.  Then you went back and changed it.

So, YES, you DO justify the killing of children.

No loco, I'm not some idiot who you can put words in my mouth.

Fact is the whole idea of an Evil nation and everyone of them being evil is the typical self righteous catalyst that leads the whole sale slaughter of a people by the Jews in the OT.

You actually think every man and women  in that nation is evil simply becuase history book written by the victors says so?     Hey i got some land in Florida that blessed by water from the red sea if you are interested. 

the correct action concerning an aggressive neighbor would be to do what we did with Germany and Japan in ww2.  NOT slaughter the entire nation and use the "lie" that the whole nation is evil.  There's no such thing.  You mean to tell me a nation of 10,000,000 people are ALL evil?     God granted us the ability to think.  We should use it as much as possible.

But let's break this down to exactly where it stand loco shall we?

Did God in the Bible order the death of an entire nation and as a result was ordering the death if it's children too?

And are your explanations for that:

1.  There was nothing they could have done with the children therefore it was better to kill them becuase we didn't have red cross, united way beck then?

2.  They children were surely going to grow to be evil just like there parents there fore might as well start sticking spears in every 3 year old you can find?

BTW very cheesy attempt to show inconsistencies in my statements.  And then even more of a cheesy ploy to show I'd justify aborting babies to deflect the issue of GOD in the OT ordering the slaughter of thousands of innocent people.

Is this how you identify GOD?  A murderer of babies/children?  Because of you believe every word of the Bible as the word of God then, he  killed innocent children.....how can this be Christian?   

[loco]

Frankly, I am disgusted that anyone who justify the killing of children and if this is what it means to be a Christian, supporting the "Word of God" in the Bible, the parts where he orders the killing of children, I want no part of it.

This is a passionate point for me because i do have Children and will not sacrifice my soul with a dismissal of a child's unneeded barbaric murder justified as the Word of God.

However, because of the issues resulting from illegal abortion, i am pro-choice

The correct thing to do would have been to NOT slaughter an entire nation and If in doing so to take care of the innocent children ages 0-16 you left without parents.  Or if even 16 was considered adult then, then all of a lesser age.

WOW!  OzmO, you are so righteous.  Jews and Christians can only dream of being as righteous as OzmO.  The God of the Bible could only dream of being as righteous and as wise in warfare as OzmO.   

Frankly, I am disgusted that anyone who justify the killing of children and if this is what it means to be a Christian, supporting the "Word of God" in the Bible, the parts where he orders the killing of children, I want no part of it.

So?  Don't be a part of it.  Don't be a Christian.  Don't believe the Bible is the word of God.  Who is forcing you?

The good thing is that there are some level headed Christians who realize the source of the OT and put it in it's proper perspective understanding the OT is more History than the WOG.

What a contradiction.  These are Christians?  They must not know the Bible and they must not know anything about Jesus Christ.  A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ constantly quoted, taught, and upheld the Old Testament as the Word of God and as The Truth.

Luke 24:27
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: " 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes' ?

John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

Matthew 22:29
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

Luke 24:32
They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Luke 24:45
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

John 5:39
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,

Mark 12:26
Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ?

Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

John 10:35
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

John 5:46
If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.