Author Topic: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...  (Read 5860 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2007, 08:27:50 AM »

In this instance the welfare of the population at large outweighs any claim you have to freedom from governmental intrusion into your life.


I agree. 

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2007, 08:55:19 AM »
No, it doesn't.  Look at the government trying to force Gardisil on 6th graders! 

 You cannot force something into someones body.  It is not for the government to decide what I have to accept as the greater risk. 

 Since I will either have to live with damage from the vaccination or the risk in contracting the disease it is MY decision which I feel is the greater risk.

Add to it the fact that they give the vaccine manufacturers immunity against any lawsuits from people harmed by the vaccines, they really do not have any right to force vaccinations onto people. 

You can go along and just blindly allow them to vaccinate you, microchip you or whatever else they decide is "the best interest".
  :D
Gardisil is not the same thing as a small pox vaccination or the like.  An airborn infectious agent responsible for an estimated 500 million deaths in the 20th century is a bit different than cervical cancer contracted via an STD.

The hubris you show in claiming that "MY decision" not to get innoculated is scary.  Let me repeat the number: 500 million deaths.

You have no right to create even the slightest probability that you could become a carrier for such destruction. 

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2007, 08:56:09 AM »
You can choose to get vaccinated and not worry about if I croak from the disease.

        :D

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2007, 08:57:53 AM »
You can choose to get vaccinated and not worry about if I croak from the disease.

        :D

But we do have to worry if you have an infectious disease.  TB, for example.   

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2007, 08:59:28 AM »
You can choose to get vaccinated and not worry about if I croak from the disease.

        :D
I have to agree with Beach Bum on this one.  What if you carry a mutated strain of the disease?

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 09:01:19 AM »
If it's mutated then I guess the vac won't be doing shit anyways!!

   Like I said, you can chose to get vaccinated or not, I chose not to.

  Since the government is going to tell me to fuck myself if I am injured from the vaccination, they can go fuck themselves in forcing it on me.



     :D

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2007, 09:29:06 AM »
If it's mutated then I guess the vac won't be doing shit anyways!!

   Like I said, you can chose to get vaccinated or not, I chose not to.

  Since the government is going to tell me to fuck myself if I am injured from the vaccination, they can go fuck themselves in forcing it on me.



     :D
No no.  You are engaging in sophistry.  You contract the disease b/c you refuse to get innoculated.  The disease changes in you and you spread the mutated form like wildfire.

But the integrity of your extreme libertarianism is still intact.

That is wrong.

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2007, 09:49:06 AM »
I don't consider myself any political affiliation, I don't even know what most of them mean!    ;D

  I don't want something forced into my body that may harm me.  The government has no right to do that.  And since I have mentioned they will do squat if you suffer ill health from the vaccinations then they certainly have no right to force it on anyone. 

  Remember the threat of WMD's?  I should let them inject me because they may think Smallpox is going to be a threat?   ::)

  Sorry, don't think so. 

Nordic Superman

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2007, 10:07:37 AM »
Flower, do u have an husband?

If you say 'yes' I won't believe you.

You seem like one of those self righteous type women. Hard fucking work.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2007, 10:19:18 AM »
I don't consider myself any political affiliation, I don't even know what most of them mean!    ;D

  I don't want something forced into my body that may harm me.  The government has no right to do that.  And since I have mentioned they will do squat if you suffer ill health from the vaccinations then they certainly have no right to force it on anyone. 

  Remember the threat of WMD's?  I should let them inject me because they may think Smallpox is going to be a threat?   ::)

  Sorry, don't think so. 

You are engaging in a cost/benefit analysis.  You think, for whatever reason, that the innoculation will harm you.  You also think that compulsory innoculation violates your personal rights.  You don't see a benefit from the innoculation.

You miss entirely the point that you could spread a disease that could kill many people.  That just doesn't enter into your thinking.

Yes, the government has the power to force you to get innoculated.

What are you afraid of?  Smallpox is a proven killer and once that genie is out of the bottle, millions could die?

And you don't want the innoculation just b/c you think it might be harmful to your body?  Where's your proof?

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2007, 10:21:10 AM »
The government can't force me. 

        :)

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2007, 10:32:44 AM »
The government can't force me. 

        :)
You would be surprised what your State government can do to you when a state of emergency is declared.  One of those things is forced inoculation

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2007, 10:34:33 AM »
The government can't force me. 

        :)

Flower are you saying you have the right to contract a preventable infectious disease and spread that disease to others? 

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2007, 10:41:59 AM »
Flower are you saying you have the right to contract a preventable infectious disease and spread that disease to others? 

I am saying EVERYONE has the right to accept or refuse a vaccination, not just me.    :D

 How can the government force something into your body that they will not take any responsibility for if it harms you? 

 A person can chose to get vaccinated and risk harm from that, or not get vaccinated and take the risk of contracting a disease.
 
  Their are more people than you would think walking amongst you right not that have never been vaccinated for some things, and some people that have never had any vaccinations. 

   BOO! 
   ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2007, 10:49:39 AM »
I am saying EVERYONE has the right to accept or refuse a vaccination, not just me.    :D

 How can the government force something into your body that they will not take any responsibility for if it harms you? 

 A person can chose to get vaccinated and risk harm from that, or not get vaccinated and take the risk of contracting a disease.
 
  Their are more people than you would think walking amongst you right not that have never been vaccinated for some things, and some people that have never had any vaccinations. 

   BOO! 
   ;D

What evidence shows vaccinations that we have been getting for decades are harmful? 

I understand your position (bodily integrity, etc.), although I just think the government's interest in preventing the spread of disease is greater than the right not to receive a shot.  Besides, most of these vaccinations are given to us as kids.  I don't even remember mine. 

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2007, 11:11:31 AM »
I am saying EVERYONE has the right to accept or refuse a vaccination, not just me.    :D

 How can the government force something into your body that they will not take any responsibility for if it harms you? 

 A person can chose to get vaccinated and risk harm from that, or not get vaccinated and take the risk of contracting a disease.
 
  Their are more people than you would think walking amongst you right not that have never been vaccinated for some things, and some people that have never had any vaccinations. 

   BOO! 
   ;D

Is your stance on vaccinations based on the speculation regarding autism and vaccinations?

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2007, 11:16:41 AM »
Flower are you saying you have the right to contract a preventable infectious disease and spread that disease to others? 
You state things really well sometimes.  My brother is like that too.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2007, 11:19:57 AM »
You state things really well sometimes.  My brother is like that too.

Thanks mang.  What do they say about a broken clock?   :)  You're probably the most articulate person on the board.  I appreciate your comments. 

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2007, 11:39:48 AM »
Thanks mang.  What do they say about a broken clock?   :)  You're probably the most articulate person on the board.  I appreciate your comments. 
Thanks.  I wish I would have read this before I mispelled 'inoculation' a hundred times.

~flower~

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2007, 01:27:42 PM »
Is your stance on vaccinations based on the speculation regarding autism and vaccinations?

In part, but I doubt anyone here is going to say that vaccinations CAN NOT harm people.   There is a risk, even if you believe it is a small one, there still is one. Who is anyone to tell you what risk is acceptable and that you must take it?  In most cases the medical community thinks unless you didn't fall over on the spot after a vaccination, no subsequent health problems have any ties to the vaccine.   ::)     They were even reluctant to link the Gardisil vaccine with girls passing out.  Their have been 5 deaths and numerous major ongoing health problems to girls that rec'd that vaccination.  And they wanted (and in some places are still trying) to make it mandatory?!? 

They have studied Amish communities that don't vaccinate and there has been NO cases of autism.  Why is that?  Meanwhile autism and other disorders have been rising, coincidently so has the number of vaccinations given to children also risen.  And they want to keep adding more vaccines to the schedule! 

Because people have been told that their is no connection between health problems and vaccines, in particular autism, and with the internet making it easy for people to research on their own, people have started to get pissed off at the lies and the sweeping under the rug of adverse affects from vaccinations.  Then they add more vaccinations that are "mandatory" and people go the opposite and say "fuck you".   Parents who had a healthy child one day, then an autistic child after being vaccinated get another kick in the head when they are told there is no connection.  Soldiers that have died after getting a cocktail of vaccinations yet their families are told it had nothing to do with it.

They need to drop the "vaccines do no harm" bullshit and start with some honesty if they want people like me to even consider getting any vaccination.  Because if I do not get 100% informed information I won't even consider it. 
   


The DOD knows there is a risk of a health problem and even death from the smallpox vaccine. Yes, they concluded the risk was low, and if you read it they say some events had nothing to do with the vaccine (of course it didn't  ::)) but they acknowledge there is a risk.  It is relative to each person what is an acceptable risk, the government can't make that decision for me or anyone.

http://www.smallpox.mil/event/SPSafetySum.asp

DoD Smallpox Vaccination Program
Safety Summary, 17 May 2007

Background:

On December 13, 2002, the President directed smallpox vaccinations for selected military personnel, government workers, and contracted workers. DoD vaccinations began immediately for emergency response personnel and hospital staff members. Comprehensive training programs in vaccination technique, infection-control safeguards, screening and education methods, adverse event monitoring, and product storage and handling, aggressively launched in October 2002, made immediate vaccinations possible. In early January 2003, DoD began smallpox vaccinations of selected US military forces, and emergency-essential civilians and contractors deployed or deploying in support of U.S. Central Command missions.

Program Status:

DoD operational forces and healthcare workers vaccinated against smallpox: over 1,200,000. Another 116,700 personnel were screened for vaccination, but medically exempted. Details about the DoD program appeared in the June 25, 2003 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).The abstract of that article appears after the following summation of the program’s current status:

In the 53 months between 13 Dec 02 and 17 May 2007, the DoD administered more than 1,200,000 smallpox vaccinations. Most adverse events occurred at rates below historical rates.

• 140 cases of myo-pericarditis developed after smallpox vaccination. These cases have been followed carefully to evaluate their recovery. Detailed follow-up cardiac testing is available in 64 cases: all 64 had normal electrocardiograms (ECGs), echocardiograms (“echos”), and normal treadmill stress test results, suggesting a high rate of recovery. [See Journal of the American College of Cardiology. 2004 (Jul 7);44(1):201-5.]

• Another 16 cases of "ischemic" heart disease (such as heart attacks, atherosclerosis, or angina) occurred within 6 weeks after smallpox vaccination. This number of cases is similar to what normally occurs among unvaccinated military personnel of similar age.

• In no case was vaccinia (the live virus in the vaccine) transmitted from one person to another in the work place. Among 27,700 smallpox-vaccinated health-care workers, there were no cases of transmission of vaccinia from worker to patient.

• 61 cases (36 lab-confirmed) of contact transfer of vaccinia virus have occurred, principally to spouses and adult intimate contacts. During education, we repeat the warning "Don't let your guard down at home."

• One case of eczema vaccinatum occurred. No cases of progressive vaccinia. This indicates our education and exemption process is working well.

• The total number of treatments with vaccinia immune globulin (VIG) is six: one burn patient, one eczema vaccinatum patient, one contact transmission, two ocular patients, and one unconfirmed contact transmission.

• In the 43 cases of possible generalized vaccinia all were treated primarily as outpatients. This is discussed in detail in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology 2006;55:23-31. Few of those reported cases meet a strict case definition.

• Eight deaths due to disease after vaccination have been reviewed: one following an acute lupus-like illness may have been caused by vaccination, based on review by two independent panels of civilian physicians. Additional information on this case appears at http://www.smallpox.mil/event/panelreport.asp. Another case involved sudden death in a 26-year-old Soldier given smallpox and influenza vaccines 16 days earlier; in this case, evidence of parvovirus B19 was found in his heart tissue. The other deaths involved the following diagnoses (one each, except as noted): myocardial infarction, atherosclerotic coronary vascular disease (ASCVD, two), pulmonary embolism, heat injury, and benzodiazepine overdose. These deaths were judged unrelated to vaccination, based on individual factors such as preexisting disease, incidence among unvaccinated people, and lack of physical evidence to implicate a vaccine.

NOTE: All appropriate program information is provided regularly to federal health authorities, including all safety-surveillance data.

The June 25, 2003, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) summarizes the DoD experience with smallpox vaccination to date. Below appears the abstract of this article:

US Military Smallpox Vaccination Program Experience John D. Grabenstein, RPh, PhD William Winkenwerder, Jr., MD, MBA

Context. The United States recently implemented smallpox vaccination of selected military personnel in a national program of preparedness against use of smallpox as a biological weapon. The return of smallpox vaccinations raises important questions regarding implementation and safety.

Objective. To describe the US military smallpox vaccination program.

Design. Descriptive study of the vaccination program from its inception on December 13, 2002, through May 28, 2003.

Setting. US Department of Defense (DoD) fixed and field medical treatment facilities on multiple continents and ships at sea.

Subjects. US service members and DoD civilian workers eligible for smallpox vaccination.

Main Outcome Measures. Numbers of vaccinations and rates of vaccination exemptions, symptoms, and adverse events. Data was collected via reports to headquarters and rigorous surveillance for sentinel events.

Results. In 5.5 months, the DoD administered 450,293 smallpox vaccinations (70.5% primary vaccinees and 29.5% revaccinees). In 2 settings, 0.5% and 3.0% of vaccine recipients needed short-term sick leave. Most adverse events occurred at rates below historical rates. One case of encephalitis and 37 cases of acute myopericarditis developed after vaccination; all cases recovered. Among 19,461 worker-months of clinical contact, there were no cases of transmission of vaccinia from worker to patient, no cases of eczema vaccinatum or progressive vaccinia, and no attributed deaths.

Conclusions. Mass smallpox vaccinations can be conducted safely with very low rates of serious adverse events. Program implementation emphasized human factors: careful staff training, contraindication screening, recipient education, and attention to bandaging. Our experience suggests broad smallpox vaccination programs may be implemented with fewer serious adverse events than previously believed. JAMA. 2003;289:3278-3282 www.jama.com

Decker

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Re: Ron Paul isn't on the radar? seriously you have to see this...
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2007, 01:41:15 PM »
Not to sound like the prince of darkness here, Flower, but those statistics re adverse reactions to vaccination are insignificant compared to the ravages of epidemic disease.