Author Topic: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report  (Read 2666 times)

Dos Equis

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Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« on: August 21, 2007, 12:05:10 PM »
Monday, Aug. 20, 2007 2:58 p.m. EDT
Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
 
Democrats are warily anticipating a September report on the Iraq war, realizing that opponents will use any upbeat assessment to portray them as defeatists just as glimmers of hope appear.

While many of their party colleagues find the notion fanciful, they acknowledge that top Republicans hope the report will show just enough progress in Iraq to persuade millions of Americans to be patient about troop withdrawals and less critical of how the war is being run.

Democratic candidates for president and Congress, the GOP argument goes, would then be stuck with their Iraq-is-lost stance, appearing irresolute and beholden to liberal activists just as things are looking better.

Many Democratic strategists consider it highly unlikely that a Bush administration report could convince voters the war is improving in a meaningful way. Polling data suggest most Americans are unlikely to change their views about the war based on a new report from the administration.

Still, some Democrats worry that credible reports of even slight improvements in the military situation in Iraq could hurt their party's momentum, built largely on public disenchantment with President Bush and his handling of the war. The administration is writing the September update while consulting with Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. ambassador Ryan Crocker. Both men will testify before Congress.

In late July, House Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said an upbeat assessment from Petraeus would carry significant weight with his party's most conservative members. They would "want to stay the course, and if the Republicans were to stay united as they have been, then it would be a problem for us," Clyburn told The Washington Post.

Republicans pounced on the remark, claiming Democrats see any progress in Iraq as a political setback. They also trumpeted a July 30 op-ed article in the New York Times by two Brookings Institution military scholars just back from Iraq.

"We are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms," wrote Michael O'Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack. "We were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily 'victory' but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with."

Some Democratic lawmakers have drawn similar conclusions, putting new strains on party solidarity. Rep. Brian Baird, D-Wash., recently returned from Iraq and said he no longer supports a hard deadline for troop withdrawals.

"I have come to believe that calls for premature withdrawal may make it more difficult for Iraqis to solve their problems," Baird told The Columbian newspaper. The Democratic Party leadership "may be in a different place than I am right now," he said.
Bush's allies hope more good news will come from next month's administration report to Congress, even though no one expects a thoroughly optimistic assessment. U.S. military leaders have said some Iraqi regions _ such as the area around Mosul in the north and Al Anbar province in the west _ may be stable enough to let U.S. troops redeploy elsewhere.

House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, responding in writing to a reporter's question, said: "Democratic leaders made a political calculation in January and it is proving to be dead wrong."

"Ignoring American successes in favor of advocating failure is not leadership," he said.

With few exceptions, top national Democrats have called the war a mistake. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said in April he believed that "this war is lost and that the surge is not accomplishing anything." Reid was referring to the roughly 30,000 troops and support personnel sent to Iraq this spring.

Of the party's major presidential contenders, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois has opposed the war from the start; former Sen. John Edwards has apologized for his 2002 vote to authorize the war; and Sen. Hillary R. Clinton says Americans want "a leader who will end the war in Iraq."

Yet all three have cautioned against a hasty withdrawal of U.S. troops that could lead to greater sectarian violence in Iraq.

Several conservative commentators, anticipating the September report, say Democrats have climbed out too far on a dangerous limb. "Democrats, who have been pandering to their anti-war base, will increasingly see that they have... 'a problem,"' William Kristol wrote this month in the Weekly Standard, alluding to Clyburn's remarks.

Not true, says Steve Elmendorf, a former Democratic congressional aide who now lobbies in Washington. "At the end of the day," he said in an interview, "the report gets filtered through the White House and Bush apparatus, and they don't have any credibility," he said.

A recent CNN-Opinion Research Corp. poll found Americans almost evenly split when asked if the U.S. military is making progress in ending violence in Iraq. But by 53 percent to 43 percent, most said they do not trust the top U.S. commander there, Petraeus, to report what is truly happening when he briefs the president and Congress.

Moreover, 72 percent of all respondents said a positive report would not affect their view of the war, while 28 percent said it would make them likelier to support it. Most polls show six in 10 Americans still oppose Bush's handling of the war, think the war is going badly and favor cutting troop strength in Iraq.

Among them is Carol Cross, a political independent who lives in West Fargo, N.D. The war "seems like it's spinning its wheels, it's going nowhere," she said in a phone interview after answering poll questions.

An upbeat report from Petraeus and the administration would not change her mind, said Cross, who is retired. "I think it's time for them to come home," she said, "no matter what."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/8/20/145934.shtml?s=ic

Decker

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 12:27:49 PM »
I will tell you right now what the report will say:

The benchmarks are not being met but there is substantial progress in Iraq re safety, politics etc etc.

You see, the Whitehouse is writing the report at this moment.

"Despite Bush's repeated statements that the report will reflect evaluations by Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House, with inputs from officials throughout the government.

And though Petraeus and Crocker will present their recommendations on Capitol Hill, legislation passed by Congress leaves it to the president to decide how to interpret the report's data."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pullback15aug15,0,4840766.story?page=2&coll=la-home-center

So the Surge will be working and all real americans will be cautiously optimistic.

See?  All the death and destruction and incompetence are a thing of the past.

headhuntersix

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 01:04:31 PM »
Fighting an Insurgency is so easy a CAVE MAN can do It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L

Decker

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 01:31:09 PM »
then after the general speaks bush's typed words on the surge, the libs will allocate another 200 billion for the war.

hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa
But if they cut funding, then the terrorists win.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 01:43:15 PM »
Fighting an Insurgency is so easy a CAVE MAN can do It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's no doubt, we're a nation of cavemen... or so they've tried to dumb us all down to that level...

headhuntersix

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 01:43:50 PM »
Yeah buddy...ok u got fat ass Al Sadr already saying the Brits are beat in the south because they're pulling out...same crap will happen whan we leave..unless most of AQ is crushed and the idiots aren't killing each other in a civil war.
L

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 03:52:14 PM »
then after the general speaks bush's typed words on the surge, the libs will allocate another 200 billion for the war.

hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa

More than four years in, thousands of U.S. soldiers dead, tens of thousands wounded with thousands of those being catastrophically wounded. Billions upon billions upon billions upon billions spent, Iraqi politicians being murdered on a weekly if not daily basis, Iraqi citizens being murdered on a daily basis and living in nearly complete chaos. An Iraqi Government and Police force that is almost completely useless. By any objective measure this war has been an almost total failure, a failure I might add predicted by Cheney more than a decade ago and yet to you it's all a big joke.

It's nice to see you sticking with the idiotic gimmick. Good job.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 04:30:29 PM »
Yeah buddy...ok u got fat ass Al Sadr already saying the Brits are beat in the south because they're pulling out...same crap will happen whan we leave..unless most of AQ is crushed and the idiots aren't killing each other in a civil war.

It's funny, I was studying for promotion last night and in the enlisted history section I was reading about peace talks happening in Vietnam which was happening at the same time as US troop withdrawls, what happend? with a draw down in American presence, NK resumed attacks on SK ruining all peace talks and initiating the bombing campaign Linebacker II. Don't suppose you libs could learn from history?
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 05:11:37 PM »
Don't suppose you libs could learn from history?
It's pretty clear warmongering rightwingers dont ::)

militarymuscle69

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 06:50:42 PM »
It's pretty clear warmongering rightwingers dont ::)

Geeze didn't see that coming, classic Dem, I don't have an answer so I will turn it around, glad to see things don't change. That is why I left this board, no one here has any answers or wants to work on anything. It is just blame blame blame from BOTH sides. I will give it to the board, it is a very good replica of real life politics.
gotta love life

Victor VonDoom

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 10:19:59 PM »
At this point who cares?  You lost the war . . . get over it.  Bah!

Doom disapproves

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2007, 01:50:12 AM »
Geeze didn't see that coming, classic Dem, I don't have an answer so I will turn it around, glad to see things don't change. That is why I left this board, no one here has any answers or wants to work on anything. It is just blame blame blame from BOTH sides. I will give it to the board, it is a very good replica of real life politics.
you left ::)  well bye bye ;)  I have answers bubba, you're clearly just not ready for the truth so get some years on ya and come back when you can handle it :-*

Colossus_500

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2007, 06:13:47 AM »
Quote from Washington State Representative Brian Baird (D):

“One, I think we’re making real progress. Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic for the region as a whole and for our own security.”

“I have come to believe that calls for premature withdrawal may make it more difficult for Iraqis to solve their problems. … Local Iraqis are standing up against the extremists on all sides. They are turning in the insurgents. They are fed up with al-Qaida. … If I didn’t think there was some chance of a reasonable outcome by staying a little longer, I would be calling for immediate withdrawal.”


Rep. Baird has been a staunch dissenter when voting on issues with Iraq.  Plus, being in his 5th term as the Washington State representative, his statement gives strong credibility to the way things are going in Iraq in my opinion. 

I do find it interesting how all of a sudden the media has spun this success story.  Before, we were hearing daily how this was a failure all-together.  Now we're hearing how this is just a political failure now. 

OzmO

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2007, 06:18:06 AM »
I would like to hear good news from Iraq.  I would like the surge to work. 

But right now, I'm skeptical of anything I'm hearing both form the media and the government.

Decker

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2007, 07:02:19 AM »
Quote from Washington State Representative Brian Baird (D):

“One, I think we’re making real progress. Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to whom we have a tremendous responsibility ... and in the long run chaotic for the region as a whole and for our own security.”

“I have come to believe that calls for premature withdrawal may make it more difficult for Iraqis to solve their problems. … Local Iraqis are standing up against the extremists on all sides. They are turning in the insurgents. They are fed up with al-Qaida. … If I didn’t think there was some chance of a reasonable outcome by staying a little longer, I would be calling for immediate withdrawal.”


....
First, He thinks were making real progress...but he doesn't quantify that conclusion.  How are we making real progress?  It certainly can't be that 50% of Baghdad is now secure after 4 years of fighting.

Second, pulling back precipitously is a straw argument b/c the withdrawal plan with the most weight in Congress is phased withdrawal.


Then he talks about premature withdrawal.  Premature in relation to what?  The majority of local iraqis are the insurgents which makes his contentions even more confusing. 

The US is now supporting the Sunnis which indirectly aids Al Qaeda.  It's the US strategy called 'The Redirection' where the U.S. has been "pumping money, a great deal of money, without congressional authority, without any congressional oversight" for covert operations in the Middle East where it wants to "stop the Shiite spread or the Shiite influence." ...these funds have ended up in the hands of "three Sunni jihadist groups" who are "connected to al Qaeda" but "want to take on Hezbollah."  http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022607A.shtml

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

So we are indirectly financing Al Qaeda to battle the spread of Shiite influence in the region even though the US invasion removed the Sunni stop-gap that problem. 



Colossus_500

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2007, 08:50:30 AM »
First, He thinks were making real progress...but he doesn't quantify that conclusion.  How are we making real progress?  It certainly can't be that 50% of Baghdad is now secure after 4 years of fighting.

Second, pulling back precipitously is a straw argument b/c the withdrawal plan with the most weight in Congress is phased withdrawal.


Then he talks about premature withdrawal.  Premature in relation to what?  The majority of local iraqis are the insurgents which makes his contentions even more confusing. 

The US is now supporting the Sunnis which indirectly aids Al Qaeda.  It's the US strategy called 'The Redirection' where the U.S. has been "pumping money, a great deal of money, without congressional authority, without any congressional oversight" for covert operations in the Middle East where it wants to "stop the Shiite spread or the Shiite influence." ...these funds have ended up in the hands of "three Sunni jihadist groups" who are "connected to al Qaeda" but "want to take on Hezbollah."  http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022607A.shtml

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

So we are indirectly financing Al Qaeda to battle the spread of Shiite influence in the region even though the US invasion removed the Sunni stop-gap that problem. 
No matter how much spin is put on his statement, Rep. Baird gives credibility to the issue based his voting record in the past.  To be of the opinion where he is at now is a far cry from how he's voted and lobbied against the war.  Don't quote me on it, but I want to say that he's been to Iraq at least 3 times now.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2007, 03:08:18 PM »
you left ::)  well bye bye ;)  I have answers bubba, you're clearly just not ready for the truth so get some years on ya and come back when you can handle it :-*

another good response, You have answers huh? I provided an instance where you queers didn't learn from history...an intelligent response would have included an instance showing the same
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militarymuscle69

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2007, 03:18:08 PM »

mm, have you been a co*ksucking, motherfvcking, asshole your whole life ?

i believe so.  :)

I have fucked a mom or two, and I am called an asshole daily, but I must take exception to the cs label.......but I will burden your frustration at failing in life.
gotta love life

OzmO

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2007, 03:19:50 PM »
I have fucked a mom or two, and I am called an asshole daily, but I must take exception to the cs label.......but I will burden your frustration at failing in life.

You are getting sucked back in MM69.   ;D

How ya been?

militarymuscle69

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2007, 03:30:30 PM »
You are getting sucked back in MM69.   ;D

How ya been?

I wish I was getting sucked! I'm good man, just alot of free time on my hands. My 'ol lady got a promotion and moved up to St. Louis (2 hours from here) so I have about 4 nights a week of free time...blah blah blah right? I am just having a shitty 2 days so I figured I would come let some aggression out here...besides I do miss a few of you clowns. 
gotta love life

OzmO

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2007, 03:47:30 PM »
I wish I was getting sucked! I'm good man, just alot of free time on my hands. My 'ol lady got a promotion and moved up to St. Louis (2 hours from here) so I have about 4 nights a week of free time...blah blah blah right? I am just having a shitty 2 days so I figured I would come let some aggression out here...besides I do miss a few of you clowns. 

hehehe   i hear ya.  Arguing with people in here can be therapeutic at times.   :)

CARTEL

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Re: Democrats Fear Positive Iraq Report
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2007, 09:48:22 PM »
I don't understand how any "American" would want bad news on this.

That's pretty repulsive.