Author Topic: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?  (Read 5430 times)

Butterbean

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2007, 12:00:57 PM »
lol yes this is obvious that Man is guilty of raping and pillaging everything in his path but Man does have a purpose and it is to attend to the earth! He was given the ability to reason in order to carry out this task! But of course we have falling short of this responsibility.

I have a question, are animals self aware? My dog see sherself in a mirror or her reflection at the lake! She thinks its another dog and pretty much wants to play with herself, ;D especially at the lake lol! She dives in to play but immediately realizes that the dog in the reflection disappeared, she then turns and looks befuddled, its hilarious lol I love her though  ;D I wonder if my sig other was like this would she think another woman was in our bathroom when she looked in the mirror and then get mad at me for having another woman lol!



 
Elephants Recognize Themselves in Mirrors
10.30.06, 12:00 AM ET

FRIDAY, Oct. 27 (HealthDay News) -- Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest pachyderm of them all?
U.S. scientists say they've found the first evidence that elephants can recognize themselves in mirrors, which means they join humans, apes and dolphins in a select group of species that have that ability.

The study found female elephants closely inspecting their reflections in a mirror and apparently not mistaking it for another elephant.

The finding, by researchers at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University and the Wildlife Conservation Society in New York, suggests convergent evolution with humans.

Self-recognition in a mirror is believed to be related to empathic tendencies (being able to identify and understand others' feelings) and the ability of an individual to distinguish oneself from others, a characteristic that evolved independently in several branches of animals, the scientists said.

Due to elephants' social complexity, it had previously been predicted that they would be able to recognize themselves in mirrors.

"We see highly complex behaviors such as self-awareness and self-other distinction in intelligent animals with well-established social systems," researcher Joshua Plotnik, of the Yerkes Center, said in a prepared statement.

"The social complexity of the elephant, its well-known altruistic behavior and, of course, its huge brain, made the elephant a logical candidate species for testing in front of a mirror," Plotnik said.

This study included three female elephants at the Bronx Zoo in New York who were exposed to a jumbo-sized mirror eight feet high by eight feet wide. When they were in front of the mirror, the elephants tested the image by making repetitive body movements and inspecting themselves, such as putting their trunks inside their mouths, a part of their body they usually can't see.

The elephants did not react socially to their images and did not seem to mistake their reflection for that of other elephants.

"Elephants have been tested in front of mirrors before, but previous studies used relatively small mirrors kept out of the elephants' reach. This study is the first to test the animals in front of a huge mirror they could touch, rub against and try to look behind," Plotnik said.

The study appears in the current issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

R

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2007, 12:05:29 PM »

You seem to start with the unsupported presumption that the planet's existence is a desirable end in and of itself, independent of humanity.

That's not necessarily a given.

But if it is, it could then be asserted that man's existence is also a desirable end in and of itself, rendering your whole argument moot.


Hope this helps!  :P

  huh? 

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2007, 12:11:17 PM »
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2007, 12:18:58 PM »
Can someone prove to me that we're not just biological organisms evolved other vast amounts of time?

Prove to me morals are an invention by man, dictated via our genetic makeup, and the genetic makeup of other animals.

Prove to me there's a goal. I certainly don't see one, my genetic makeup does however programme me to want to procreate and pass on my genes.

You guys IMHO are too philosophical about this.
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boonstack

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2007, 12:20:42 PM »

 I don't think that we are better.  In case anyone missed this start of this topic on the Pet Board, it was stated that torturing an animal is better than torturing a person.  I disagree and say torture is torture.  And if man is supposed to be the thinking, reasoning, compassionate animal, then it should be seen as being wrong to torture or be deliberately cruel to any other living thing.  It was then brought up that man eats animals, therefore man is better.  But that sends the topic into another direction.  Which prompted my question on why is man better than animals?  What purpose does man have here?  What has man contributed?

  So far it appears to be nothing that is not motivated by mans desires for itself.

I am in no way saying that animals should not be eaten, there is a few chain in life after all, nor am I saying if given a choice to save a person or an animal the animal should be chosen (depending on the person in question this could be debatable  8) ) but none of that is reason why torture or deliberate cruelty is even slightly acceptable by man as long as it is done to an animal.  I think that as a thinking higher brained creature, it should be seen as wrong, period.  To say otherwise puts man beneath the animals.


A - Go sit in a room with a starving lion- see if it will allow you to live.

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2007, 12:23:01 PM »
Can someone prove to me that we're not just biological organisms evolved other vast amounts of time?

Prove to me morals are an invention by man, dictated via our genetic makeup, and the genetic makeup of other animals.

Prove to me there's a goal. I certainly don't see one, my genetic makeup does however programme me to want to procreate and pass on my genes.

You guys IMHO are too philosophical about this.

a - prove we have evolved
b-  prove morals are not an invention
c-  prove there is not a goal
 

boonstack

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2007, 12:25:57 PM »

You seem to start with the unsupported presumption that the planet's existence is a desirable end in and of itself, independent of humanity.

That's not necessarily a given.

But if it is, it could then be asserted that man's existence is also a desirable end in and of itself, rendering your whole argument moot.


Hope this helps!  :P

planets can survive without people

people cant survive without planets

we could orbit forever i suppose but be practical

hope this helps:)

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2007, 12:27:49 PM »
goatboy,

dont u agree that WITHOUT humans, nothing matters in the first place (since we wont be existing to determine or know ANYTHING, NOTHING matters)

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2007, 12:31:29 PM »
planets can survive without people

people cant survive without planets

we could orbit forever i suppose but be practical

hope this helps:)

I don't think you understood my post. 

You're arguing that the planet is important, but only viewed in the context of man's survival.  Flower was arguing that the planet is important in and of itself, independent of man, and "it" would be better off without humans.

I was refuting her argument, not the completely different argument that you seem to be making.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2007, 12:32:12 PM »
goatboy,

dont u agree that WITHOUT humans, nothing matters in the first place (since we wont be existing to determine or know ANYTHING, NOTHING matters)


Yes, that was kind of my whole point.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2007, 12:33:21 PM »
A - Go sit in a room with a starving lion- see if it will allow you to live.



   You are going to have to expand upon this, your point is not clear. 

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2007, 12:34:33 PM »
I don't think you understood my post. 

You're arguing that the planet is important, but only viewed in the context of man's survival.  Flower was arguing that the planet is important in and of itself, independant of man, and "it" would be better off without humans.

I was refuting her argument, not the completely different argument that you seem to be making.

  so we have to go off on another tangent now?    ::)

Thanks you mucky muck.   :P

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2007, 12:34:46 PM »

   You are going to have to expand upon this, your point is not clear. 


Let me translate:


"Gingers taste better to hungry lions".
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2007, 12:36:00 PM »
  so we have to go off on another tangent now?    ::)

Thanks you mucky muck.   :P


What tangent?  Everything I've said is completely on-point.  Didn't they teach you that at Trade School?  ;D
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2007, 12:36:06 PM »

Let me translate:


"Gingers taste better to hungry lions".

  then that means nothing to the topic.    :)

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2007, 12:39:38 PM »

What tangent?  Everything I've said is completely on-point.  Didn't they teach you that at Trade School?  ;D

 The ORIGINAL topic was: It is better to torture and be cruel to animals then people.

         :P

 I say no it isn't, torture and deliberate cruelty is wrong no matter what. 

 Which brought up humans being better than animals and I say why?  Just because we eat them doesn't make it so. Animals also eat other animals.

  Which then brought up the fact that if the fish died eventually the living beings on the planet would die, but if man died off everything would be fine and probably better.   so fish are more important than man.
   ;D

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2007, 12:47:41 PM »
but if man died off everything would be fine and probably better.      ;D


From who's point of view?  "Better" or "worse" are concepts only applicable to man.  If man died off, the situation would clearly be "worse" for him, especially since value judgements don't apply outside the scope of humanity.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2007, 01:02:26 PM »

From who's point of view?  "Better" or "worse" are concepts only applicable to man.  If man died off, the situation would clearly be "worse" for him, especially since value judgements don't apply outside the scope of humanity.
 
    ::)  from man's point of view.  I see no reason why man should think it would be better to torture animals than each other, man should see torture and cruelty as wrong, period.

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2007, 01:53:52 PM »
a - prove we have evolved
b-  prove morals are not an invention
c-  prove there is not a goal

A) Lots of evidence in favour of evolution, ofcourse non-definitive.
B) The fact that human morality has progressed in a similar way as evolution. Look back to the morality of 50 years ago, then 100 etc etc, you will see the change. Man himself and his creation "humanity" made these changes.
C) Just like the evolution answer. Nothing definitive either way.
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Al-Gebra

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2007, 02:10:38 PM »

  Which then brought up the fact that if the fish died eventually the living beings on the planet would die, but if man died off everything would be fine and probably better.   so fish are more important than man.
   ;D

details . . . details. fish (which you're using loosely, could include different phyla)  don't equate to man (species). if a phylum, or even a class died off, I imagine the planet would look very different, but don't worry, something else would probably take its place. 

species (of fish even) go extinct all the time . . . and we go on

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2007, 07:01:14 PM »

You seem to start with the unsupported presumption that the planet's existence is a desirable end in and of itself, independent of humanity.

That's not necessarily a given.

But if it is, it could then be asserted that man's existence is also a desirable end in and of itself, rendering your whole argument moot.


Hope this helps!  :P

Damn I think I actual understand what you are saying here!
W

Hustle Man

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2007, 07:18:59 PM »


 
Elephants Recognize Themselves in Mirrors
10.30.06, 12:00 AM ET

FRIDAY, Oct. 27 (HealthDay News) -- Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest pachyderm of them all?
U.S. scientists say they've found the first evidence that elephants can recognize themselves in mirrors, which means they join humans, apes and dolphins in a select group of species that have that ability.

The study found female elephants closely inspecting their reflections in a mirror and apparently not mistaking it for another elephant.

The finding, by researchers at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University and the Wildlife Conservation Society in New York, suggests convergent evolution with humans.

Self-recognition in a mirror is believed to be related to empathic tendencies (being able to identify and understand others' feelings) and the ability of an individual to distinguish oneself from others, a characteristic that evolved independently in several branches of animals, the scientists said.

Due to elephants' social complexity, it had previously been predicted that they would be able to recognize themselves in mirrors.

"We see highly complex behaviors such as self-awareness and self-other distinction in intelligent animals with well-established social systems," researcher Joshua Plotnik, of the Yerkes Center, said in a prepared statement.

"The social complexity of the elephant, its well-known altruistic behavior and, of course, its huge brain, made the elephant a logical candidate species for testing in front of a mirror," Plotnik said.

This study included three female elephants at the Bronx Zoo in New York who were exposed to a jumbo-sized mirror eight feet high by eight feet wide. When they were in front of the mirror, the elephants tested the image by making repetitive body movements and inspecting themselves, such as putting their trunks inside their mouths, a part of their body they usually can't see.

The elephants did not react socially to their images and did not seem to mistake their reflection for that of other elephants.

"Elephants have been tested in front of mirrors before, but previous studies used relatively small mirrors kept out of the elephants' reach. This study is the first to test the animals in front of a huge mirror they could touch, rub against and try to look behind," Plotnik said.

The study appears in the current issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.



Stella while I think this is a very interesting study I think the only way they could have known whether or not the female elephants where self aware would have been to havetheir baby along side of them. Momma would have made some defensive and/or protective gestures if she thought the creature in the mirror was going to harm her little one. Maybe put tusk on her too! But anyway good find.
W

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2007, 10:57:40 PM »
flower, did a man pee in your cornflakes?  ??? What's with the hatred?  ::)

Men have invented almost everything in the world. A man invented electricity, created cars and airplanes, built houses and skyscrapers etc etc etc. I bet a man invented the internet also. A man invented weapons to kill the animals you eat. If you hate men so much don't use our inventions and go live in the desert and eat berries. >:(

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2007, 02:55:18 AM »
originally on the Pet Board, but was suggested that it would make a good topic elsewhere.




the purpose of all men on earth is to serve you Amy...    ;D












 :)

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Re: What is the purpose of Man on this planet?
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2007, 08:16:57 AM »
flower, did a man pee in your cornflakes?  ??? What's with the hatred?  ::)

Men have invented almost everything in the world. A man invented electricity, created cars and airplanes, built houses and skyscrapers etc etc etc. I bet a man invented the internet also. A man invented weapons to kill the animals you eat. If you hate men so much don't use our inventions and go live in the desert and eat berries. >:(

In Flower's defense, she is referring to "Mankind" i.e, human beings she was not targeting the gender. Her arguement/view point is that Mankind is not necessary for this earth to function/exist. In other words we (mankind) are merely parasites; living off the earth! Plants and animals on ther other hand recycle and keep it flowing.

Correct me if I am wrong here Flower.
W