squats-no need to go heavy

[thewickedtruth]

Wicked are you talking about one-quarter rep squats done on the smith machine ? I shure as hell hope not.

LOL if that's how you do them, I'd suggest ass to grass myself once you get the form and movement down right but if that works HEY WHY NOT!

[Zach Trowbridge]

I've been using a pretty straightforward periodized program for most of my body, legs included, where I'll do 4 weeks at 12-15 reps, 4 at 8-12 reps, and 4 at 4-8 reps, and my legs seem to be responding best to the 12-15 range, at least in terms of growth.  Not a lot of weight involved as legs are a huge weakness for me, but they get better each workout.

[mike oxreallybig]

My legs grow best doin ten sets of ten reps for squats followed by 5 sets of 15-20 on leg press.. . .its tough but my legs respond well to it.

[overcome]

My legs grow best doin ten sets of ten reps for squats followed by 5 sets of 15-20 on leg press.. . .its tough but my legs respond well to it.

thats sounds painful...

i'll give it a try in a few weeks   

[theworm]

I think squats are key to mass.

however, when I do them, I think about the tremendous valsava manuveur that occurs.  I think the pressure back to the heart and up to the brain has to be the greatest when doing squats.  Maybe this may lead to a big heart, leaky valves, etc down the road.  any thoughts?

Levrone did ok without much squating.

[WOOO]

the only squats that i have been using lately are front squats...i have done 3 movements before getting to themand this week 3 sets of 20 nearly killed me...

i mean 225x20 front squat after everything else?  i was in love!!!

[oldtimer1]

There are so many elite bodybuilders that  use moderate weights.  They are still working hard by the amount of sets, reps, and proper performance of the exercise.  How many guys claim they are going to parallel when they are only doing very shallow squats with a ton of weight. These trainers have no idea of how anyone can do these shallow type knee bends yet they will claim such things as, " I just did 12 reps with 405lbs."  I like to squat like an Olympic lifter.  All the way down to maximum range.  It limits what you can lift if you compare it to the cheat method of barely squatting down.

Using 225 for deep reps for sets is tough. What's easy is doing quarter knee bends with 405 while lying to yourself that you are doing half squats to parallel. What passes for a valid squat in power lifting today is a border line half squat.

[WOOO]

There are so many elite bodybuilders that  use moderate weights.  They are still working hard by the amount of sets, reps, and proper performance of the exercise.  How many guys claim they are going to parallel when they are only doing very shallow squats with a ton of weight. These trainers have no idea of how anyone can do these shallow type knee bends yet they will claim such things as, " I just did 12 reps with 405lbs."  I like to squat like an Olympic lifter.  All the way down to maximum range.  It limits what you can lift if you compare it to the cheat method of barely squatting down.

Using 225 for deep reps for sets is tough. What's easy is doing quarter knee bends with 405 while lying to yourself that you are doing half squats to parallel. What passes for a valid squat in power lifting today is a border line half squat.

your post is ok... but the squat IS NOT an olympic lift... hope this helps 

[jpm101]

I believe OT means the Olympic squat style, which is about  half way between a BB'ers squat (back straight..bar high on the back..legs medium/narrow stance) and a Pl'ers squat (bar low on the back...legs/arse wide....half GoodMorning, half semi squat)

Quite a few lifters have made outstanding gains in muscle and strength when doing medium weight squats using GVT (10X10's). If you use 300 for 5 reps when squating, try doing 10X10's with 220 or so. May feel like sissy stuff the first few sets, with 90-120 second between sets, but it progresses to harder reps later. The quads will get bigger and you may gain muscular weight in the upper body. A win win experience. Another exceptional leg program  are 20 rep breathing squats. A killer but worth the effort if you want to build all over muscular size and in a relative short period of time. Trouble being, not to many trainee's want to work that hard.

What passes for heavy squating now a days is unbelievable. A 1/8 this and a 1/4 that is not true squating. Unless you are intending to work partial reps in a PR and plan it that way. Not to many guy's, in my view, know what true heavy squating is. Funny thing is is that I see many women lifter who use near perfect style in the squat...interesting and also nice to watch.  Good Luck.

[rockyfortune]

i've always had large quads...and i never once squatted more than 275...and if i did 275 it wasn't for many reps...unless you are some fat powerlifter i don't see the need to be squatting volkswagens...

[SirTraps]

exactly, and when you are in your 50's you wont need hip and knee replacements.  You can make very good gains with a healthier body using lower weight, strict form and high reps-thats the point of the thread.

              This is not true for upper body imo.

[WOOO]

I believe OT means the Olympic squat style, which is about  half way between a BB'ers squat (back straight..bar high on the back..legs medium/narrow stance) and a Pl'ers squat (bar low on the back...legs/arse wide....half GoodMorning, half semi squat)

I stand corrected     (it's funny how we have a mod who isn't a mod and a should be mod who isn't a mod on the same board...) 

Quite a few lifters have made outstanding gains in muscle and strength when doing medium weight squats using GVT (10X10's). If you use 300 for 5 reps when squating, try doing 10X10's with 220 or so. May feel like sissy stuff the first few sets, with 90-120 second between sets, but it progresses to harder reps later. The quads will get bigger and you may gain muscular weight in the upper body. A win win experience. Another exceptional leg program  are 20 rep breathing squats. A killer but worth the effort if you want to build all over muscular size and in a relative short period of time. Trouble being, not to many trainee's want to work that hard.

What passes for heavy squating now a days is unbelievable. A 1/8 this and a 1/4 that is not true squating. Unless you are intending to work partial reps in a PR and plan it that way. Not to many guy's, in my view, know what true heavy squating is. Funny thing is is that I see many women lifter who use near perfect style in the squat...interesting and also nice to watch.  Good Luck.

i agree that few people squat with good ROM anymore... back when i was playing footbal our leg workout was similar to GVT and the effect on my legs was unreal...

tonight is hamtring day... gonna do some good old GVT!

[oldtimer1]

your post is ok... but the squat IS NOT an olympic lift... hope this helps 

An Olympic squat used by Olympic lifters is a medium to narrow stance. High bar placement on the traps.  A fairly upright squat stance and all the way to maximum depth. 

A power squat is a wide stance.  The bar placement is low as you can get it to put leverage in your favor. While many claim it's a squat to parallel, I see most lifts are passed in competition look like a half squat to me.  Also the power lifting type squat has been called a hip lock squat.  Your putting your body in the best position to move the maximum weight.

[The Squadfather]

An Olympic squat used by Olympic lifters is a medium to narrow stance. High bar placement on the traps.  A fairly upright squat stance and all the way to maximum depth. 

A power squat is a wide stance.  The bar placement is low as you can get it to put leverage in your favor. While many claim it's a squat to parallel, I see most lifts are passed in competition look like a half squat to me.  Also the power lifting type squat has been called a hip lock squat.  Your putting your body in the best position to move the maximum weight.

i agree to a certain extent, the reason these huge 1,000-1,200 pound Monolift squats look so shallow is due to the extremely wide foot placement, these clowns set up in that stance and then the Monolift hooks are taken away and it drops the weight on their shoulders so when they begin they are almost already in a quarter squat position, fuccking laughable, makes a mockery of legitimate squatters like Karwoski, Furnas, Kazmaier, Reinhoudt and all the great lifters of the 70's and 80's both PL'ers and OL'ers.

[thewickedtruth]

i agree to a certain extent, the reason these huge 1,000-1,200 pound Monolift squats look so shallow is due to the extremely wide foot placement, these clowns set up in that stance and then the Monolift hooks are taken away and it drops the weight on their shoulders so when they begin they are almost already in a quarter squat position, fuccking laughable, makes a mockery of legitimate squatters like Karwoski, Furnas, Kazmaier, Reinhoudt and all the great lifters of the 70's and 80's both PL'ers and OL'ers.

This is why 600 to the floor is more impressive to me than these pl comps...

my buddy just talked to me the other day...his competition lifts in the squat are bordering 900...but he was so proud to hit 650 for a double to the floor raw which I have more respect for than his 900 to parallel in the suit, briefs, belt, etc.

Anything beyond a belt and wraps if you have bad knees jsut takes all the charm of the squat away.

[WOOO]

completely agree...


oh and btw SF...

tonight to start my Ham workout i did 5 sets of dumbbell deads... 20 reps per set... the last set was with 115lbs and i thought i was going to die

[dan18]

i can squat 315 for only 3 reps. so using 315 at the moment to develop size is out of the question....and my legs arent that bad..

yea there not good at all no separation nothing sorry man call it the way i see it..
everyone grows differently but same rings true you can get good solid separated legs from 225 squats 20 reps but for thickness you need heavy weight with reps not 405 for 3 reps but 315 for 12 or more.. 405 for reps if you do 405 for 6 sets of 4 then your wasting your time reps reps reps.

[bmacsys]

yea there not good at all no separation nothing sorry man call it the way i see it..
everyone grows differently but same rings true you can get good solid separated legs from 225 squats 20 reps but for thickness you need heavy weight with reps not 405 for 3 reps but 315 for 12 or more.. 405 for reps if you do 405 for 6 sets of 4 then your wasting your time reps reps reps.

Many people think that heavy squats make you grow all over.

[thewickedtruth]

Many people think that heavy squats make you grow all over.

My legs have exploded and my overall strength, especially lower body, has blow up in all lifts due to squats and squatting heavy! I have also seen greater response when it comes to size AND cuts because ALL the muscle in your legs grow when you do leg workouts, due to squats than any ohter exercise. Those that say leg press will get it down just like squats will are full of shit! I saw more from squats with 315 than I ever did with leg presses up to as high as 30plates. Squats bring it home and really help you develop overall power just like deads do. I wish I would've started out squatting years ago.

[bmacsys]

My legs have exploded and my overall strength, especially lower body, has blow up in all lifts due to squats and squatting heavy! I have also seen greater response when it comes to size AND cuts because ALL the muscle in your legs grow when you do leg workouts, due to squats than any ohter exercise. Those that say leg press will get it down just like squats will are full of shit! I saw more from squats with 315 than I ever did with leg presses up to as high as 30plates. Squats bring it home and really help you develop overall power just like deads do. I wish I would've started out squatting years ago.

I take the easy way out and do leg presses because I am relatively old, have a bad back and have shot knees. That being said a leg press is no way as effective a movement. Not by a long shot!

[thewickedtruth]

I'd also like to say that I feel like you need to be squatting right at or more than double your body weight to start seeing significant changes. It took high reps with 400+ for me to start seeing some good results. So it's all relative. AND GTFO OFF THE SMITH MACHINE IF YOU'RE SQUATTING! Use the cage if you're afraid of not getting it up..that's what it's for.

[thewickedtruth]

I take the easy way out and do leg presses because I am relatively old, have a bad back and have shot knees. That being said a leg press is no way as effective a movement. Not by a long shot!

there are exceptions to every rule and if you can't squat that's one thing... Hacks are even better than leg pressing but if that's what you can do, keep bleeding in the gym. Doesn't matter how you get it done, as long as it gets done when the day is over with my friend. My post was more towards the guys who CAN squat and choose not to. You'll look like more of a hardass hitting 300-500lbs to the floor than loading up 20plates on the leg press trying to fill out your jeans.

[MoralMan]

Do you guys wear knee wraps when squatting? Some of you like SF when doing 405 for 12 i can imagine pain in the knees there, altho im a long way of that sort of lifting when i get up to about 400 should i wrap? I can do 390 for a single at the mo ( iknow im a beast!)

[WOOO]

Do you guys wear knee wraps when squatting? Some of you like SF when doing 405 for 12 i can imagine pain in the knees there, altho im a long way of that sort of lifting when i get up to about 400 should i wrap? I can do 390 for a single at the mo ( iknow im a beast!)

knee wraps are no more effective than weight belts in preventing injury...

the best way to protect your knees is to warm up before you squat

[wes]

Some of the best legs I ever saw back in the day were on a guy named Jack Kousaris........he`d squat 135-20,185-20,225-20,250-20,185-20 (close stance)............all the way down.

Awesome development.