Author Topic: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?  (Read 4947 times)

jmt1

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what do people here think?  should ex fighting dog mean a automatic death sentence?

i realize that their would be some major issues and concerns in placing ex fighting dogs up for adoption but i do think they deserve a second chance at life.  once these dogs are rescued and if they pass temperament testing why not give them that chance?  even after everything these dogs have gone through most of them are still very people friendly and could make someone a great family pet. just becuase a dog was used for fighting does not mean they are dangerous or unstable.  of course these dogs couldnt be adopted out to just anyone. owners would need to be heavily screened.  it would have to be someone who has no other pets and someone who is familiar with the breed/apbt's. if suitable homes can be found they should be given a chance. i think it actually comes down to being able to find capable owners rather than a problem with the dog itself.

Geo

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2007, 10:18:00 PM »
hell yes ya put them down,you gonna trust a pit that's been trained to attack and lock on around your family ? your kids ? and how humane is it to leave them in a cage for the rest of their lives ?

jmt1

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2007, 10:30:35 PM »
hell yes ya put them down,you gonna trust a pit that's been trained to attack and lock on around your family ? your kids ? and how humane is it to leave them in a cage for the rest of their lives ?

huh ??? 

the fact is that most of these pits are still people friendly and are capable of making a great family pet.  dog aggression does not mean human aggression.
i said in my post if these dogs are put through temperament testing, food aggression, behavioral problems, ect, and pass that they should be given that chance.


freespirit

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 02:14:31 AM »
huh ??? 

the fact is that most of these pits are still people friendly and are capable of making a great family pet.  dog aggression does not mean human aggression.
i said in my post if these dogs are put through temperament testing, food aggression, behavioral problems, ect, and pass that they should be given that chance.



If I had kids I certainly wouldn't trust a dog like that in my house, even after some sort of test.

Vet

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 11:34:14 AM »
If I had kids I certainly wouldn't trust a dog like that in my house, even after some sort of test.

The problem  with placing dogs like this isn't necessarily the dogs, but finding responsible owners.  They are dogs that often require a great deal of retraning/rehabilitation (what ever you want to call it). They typically need to be placed in single dog (no more than 2 dog) households.  It can be really, really intense rehabilitating a former fighting dog.   

Can it be done?  Absolutely, there are many well documented cases of dogs that have been fought going on to be loving family pets.  The right owners just have to be found for the dogs.  Unfortunately finding the right owners is sometimes easier said than done, so euthanasia becomes an option.   I DO NOT THINK these dogs should be adopted out to just anyone who wants one and potential adoptors need to be screened extensively with followup and support.  This requires manpower and money that most counties won't devote.   

jmt1

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 03:59:29 PM »
The Fate of Michael Vick's Dogs
A statement from Best Friends

posted by Kate Schnepel, Best Friends Staff

There has been much speculation as to what will happen to the 49 dogs seized from Michael Vick's property. Representatives from both PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have stated numerous times in the press that they feel the only responsible choice is to euthanize all of the dogs. Sadly, this is often the fate for any dog or puppy taken from a property where dog fighting is suspected to have occurred. The dogs are often killed without having had the opportunity to be temperament tested or evaluated – even puppies are destroyed as soon as they’re released through the courts.

It appears that, for now, the dogs from Michael Vick's property have been granted a reprieve. Late this afternoon, Federal Judge Henry E. Hudson gave custody of the dogs to the U.S. Marshals Service. Judge Hudson's order instructed the Marshals Service to use "whatever means appropriate to protect and maintain" the dogs. What's next for the dogs is not yet known.

Prior to today's developments, Best Friends released the following statement regarding Vick's dogs:

Best Friends has been in discussion with both the U.S. Attorney's Office and the United States Department of Agriculture about helping to evaluate the dogs and possibly bringing some of them to our animal sanctuary in southwestern Utah. A number of organizations, including Best Friends, have offered their assistance in helping provide these dogs with the alternative of life, instead of euthanasia. Best Friends has a history of bringing all types of dogs to the sanctuary, with many of them from difficult backgrounds. We strongly feel that some of these dogs can be rehabilitated, perhaps not to the point where they could be adopted by families, but to the point where they have a chance to live a fairly normal existence without the threat of ever again being exposed to fighting

http://network.bestfriends.org/stopbsl/news/18124.html

Geo

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2007, 04:47:04 PM »


 even puppies are destroyed as soon as they’re released through the courts.



now that I have a problem with because it seems to me puppys would have a better chance at being deprogramed than older dogs

beatmaster

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2007, 04:53:40 PM »
now that I have a problem with because it seems to me puppys would have a better chance at being deprogramed than older dogs

i agree here............. but i'll never trust an ex-fighting pit bull, those are unpredictable dogs, nice one day, nuts the other...... so, no way
are you delusional?

Lord Humungous

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2007, 07:43:09 AM »
For the record Geo, pits cant "lock" their jaws- thats an urban legend.
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Geo

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 08:23:27 AM »
For the record Geo, pits cant "lock" their jaws- thats an urban legend.

what do you know about real dogs ?

you own a basset hound !

 >:(

knny187

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2007, 08:51:16 AM »
Well...if it can be done....I'm sure they could fill a spot in society...somewhere.

Maybe in the prison system watching the tough ghetto inmates


Vet

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2007, 10:32:04 AM »
I would take one, if I didn't already have a housefull of dogs and the dog had a personality that matched what I look for in a dog.   Unfortunately, with the new puppy and the dogo, i don't have the time necessary to devote to this type of dog and a 4 dog household is too much for my wife and I, especially considering what this dog may require..   Again, thats the problem.  Finding good humans for the dogs. 

Hustle Man

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2007, 11:58:00 AM »
Well...if it can be done....I'm sure they could fill a spot in society...somewhere.

Maybe in the prison system watching the tough ghetto inmates



Actually there are several programs already in place providing somewhat of the reverse of what you suggested.

http://www.coyotecommunications.com/dogs/prisondogs.html

http://www.pathwaystohope.org/prison.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~prisonp/index.html


W

jmt1

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2007, 03:34:28 PM »
I would take one, if I didn't already have a housefull of dogs and the dog had a personality that matched what I look for in a dog.   Unfortunately, with the new puppy and the dogo, i don't have the time necessary to devote to this type of dog and a 4 dog household is too much for my wife and I, especially considering what this dog may require..   Again, thats the problem.  Finding good humans for the dogs. 

i agree that it comes down to finding the right owners for the dogs.  its really a shame that so many great dogs get put down without ever having a chance.

i disagree with the comments that these dogs cant be trusted to be around people.  just because they were used as fighting dogs doesnt make them unstable. dog agression and human agression are two very different things. 

jmt1

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2007, 03:41:09 PM »
more on the dogs rescued from vick...

A Roswell veterinarian believes he can rehabilitate at least some of Michael Vick's pit bulls that mainstream animal-rights advocates want put to death.

And he is not alone. Pit bull experts say the dogs are getting a bad rap.

"I work with Fulton and Cobb counties and we've take in injured pit bulls all the time and we've adopted a lot of them out to good homes," said the veterinarian, Michael Good, who heads up the Homeless Pets Foundation. "It is the nature of the breed to be very loving toward people. They are a very subservient breed. They are intelligent and they respond to man's affection."

Not everyone agrees.

Some animal-rights advocates are calling for authorities to kill the dogs seized on the Atlanta Falcons quarterback's Virginia property. A spokeswoman for the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals called the dogs "ticking time bombs." Officials with the Humane Society of the United States said the animals should be put down. Last month, federal prosecutors filed court papers asking permission to condemn the 53 dogs seized in April.

Friendly temperaments

That makes sense to a lot of people — including the man who once examined the dogs and found them gentle toward people. Derrick Moore, the former animal-control officer in Surry County, Va., said the dogs allowed him to pet them when he inspected Vick's Bad Newz Kennels, which was licensed by the county. Moore said other pit bulls he seized a few years ago in a dogfighting investigation had similarly friendly temperaments but the county still put the dogs down.

"Every one of them, including the puppies, we put down," he said. "I wouldn't take a chance on adopting them out. I doubt they would hurt people but if one did bite somebody, and even if it didn't have anything to do with the way they were raised, you're still liable and people have their hands out [for money]."

But pit bull advocates said the government is indiscriminately condemning the same dogs it is prosecuting Vick for abusing.

"They say they rescue the dogs from dogfighters and then they kill them," said Diane Jessup, a nationally recognized expert on pit bulls in Washington state who trains dogs for law enforcement. "If they are just summarily killed, it sends a message that pit bulls are expendable, which is the same message that dogfighters are sending."

On Thursday, the save-the-pit bulls arguments carried the day — at least for now. U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson ordered the U.S. Marshal service to "protect and maintain" the dogs recovered from Vick's property.

Pit bull groups have been maneuvering to get permission to evaluate and save at least some of Vick's dogs, said Donna Reynolds, executive director of Bad Rap, a California pit bull advocacy group.

"We expect to have an announcement next week," she said.

Evaluate, rehabilitate

Generally, even pit bulls that have been trained to fight have a good disposition toward people but are often a danger toward other dogs, experts say. Trainers, such as Good, Jessup and Reynolds, say they can easily identify a vicious pit bull that can't be rehabilitated. But they said Vick's dogs should be sent to organizations that will evaluate the dogs, rehabilitate the ones deemed salvageable and then screen potential owners to ensure the animals end up with the right people.

Good said he owns three pit bulls, once fighting dogs but now socialized, that have become great pets. Reynolds said she has a battle-scarred female she rescued and it doesn't attack other dogs on impulse. She keeps it out of potentially provocative situations.

"No matter what the public decides to think about Vick's dogs, I think we can learn a lot from this situation, if we can get past the stereotypes that they're ticking time bombs or fighting machines," Reynolds said. "As long as the dog is going to be well-behaved on the leash, it can go on walks. They don't have to go to the dog park. Dogs don't have to be friends."


Jessup said she was willing to evaluate Vick's dogs and retrain some for police work.

"I think it is easy to brush these dogs under the rug when there are groups out there who are willing to step up and help," she said. "If these were German shepherds, this wouldn't even be part of the discussion."

Hedgehog

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 03:45:21 PM »
Well...if it can be done....I'm sure they could fill a spot in society...somewhere.

Maybe in the prison system watching the tough ghetto inmates



I agree with knny.

If it can be done. Sure.

Why breed more dogs if these dogs are available and if they can be re-trained?

But if they can't - put them away.
As empty as paradise

Vet

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 06:30:06 PM »
I agree with knny.

If it can be done. Sure.

Why breed more dogs if these dogs are available and if they can be re-trained?

But if they can't - put them away.

Exactly..... the problem is finding enough of the right people and keeping the human nuts who convinced they know more than everyone else at bay.   Taking on one of these dogs will be a liability becuase if the dog bites another dog, or god forbid it bites a human, there will be a hayday with it.   You have to find the right owners....   

Lord Humungous

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 07:25:03 PM »
what do you know about real dogs ?

you own a basset hound !

 >:(
Hes a beagle/basset/ somethin, somethin
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Geo

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2007, 07:46:37 PM »
Hes a beagle/basset/ somethin, somethin

I read something the other day about beagles bein vicious around newborns so ya might wanna keep an eye on old O'dog

Lord Humungous

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 05:53:06 AM »
I read something the other day about beagles bein vicious around newborns so ya might wanna keep an eye on old O'dog

totally blood thirsty!! Beagles are evil
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Vet

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2007, 10:03:43 AM »
totally blood thirsty!! Beagles are evil

The worst animal bite my wife has ever gotten was from a beagel at the humane society.  I've got scars on my left forearm from one too.   Beagles are babies......with teeth.    :-\

knny187

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2007, 11:12:20 AM »
& they sure like to bark alot

 ;D

dizzleman06

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2007, 02:09:13 PM »
it really saddens me to think that some of these dogs could be rehabilitated and re-entered into society...  I would take one, just imagine how loving that dog would be toward you...given the fact that no one has shown it proper attention, it would think that it died and went to heaven!  You would just have to be careful of the situations that you put it in...

Geo

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2007, 05:02:19 PM »
totally blood thirsty!! Beagles are evil

probably planning a bold assault on the baby right now

jmt1

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Re: Ex-fighting dogs... Euthanize or give them a chance at adoption?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2007, 05:10:46 PM »
it really saddens me to think that some of these dogs could be rehabilitated and re-entered into society...  I would take one, just imagine how loving that dog would be toward you...given the fact that no one has shown it proper attention, it would think that it died and went to heaven!  You would just have to be careful of the situations that you put it in...

i agree...although i'm not sure if rehabilatated is even the right word.  they were trained to fight other dogs and i'm not sure how sucessful someone would be if they tried to deprogram them of that.  i think that dog agression will continue to be there and even if someone tried to resocialize them to be friendly with other dogs it wouldnt be worth the risk.  the person who adopts the dog would just have to be very aware of what the dog is capable of and be careful not to put him in any situations that could lead to trouble.