Fatima

[Ursus]

Im a roman catholic and believe strongly in fatima. It was only today i was talking to my dad and we got talking about fatima. Immediately i started googling it and it really got me thinking.

Particularly that Sr Lucy is now 100 years old-this is pertinent as she said that the secret would be revealed to the wolrd in 1960 or when she died...whatever came first.

I also carry a miraculous medal with me and after reading more about it and fatima i have decided to always wear one around my neck.

Is anyone else interested in fatima?

I stronly believe in god and everything that hapened in fatima. Even reading it makes my head go all tingly as if someone is tickling/touching it. It is a soothing and relaxing feeling. I get similar feeling s when in mass etc. I have been told this is the holy spirit?

neone else interested in this?

[OzmO]

I think the whole thing is an abomination of what Jesus and God intended.

Praying to someone else to pray to God for you instead of praying to God directly goes against what the Bible teaches.

[Ursus]

its praying to them through gods intercession.

surely they are closer to god. well mary is.

also what religion is everyone who posts here

[Butterbean]

I'm sorry Goudy, but I agree with OzmO.

I'm a non-denominational Christian.


What is your "miraculous medal?"  Is that just what it's called or do you think it has special powers of some sort?

[Butterbean]

its praying to them through gods intercession.

surely they are closer to god. well mary is.

also what religion is everyone who posts here

   

1 Timothy 2:5,6

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.


Deut 18:10-12
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

[OzmO]

its praying to them through gods intercession.

surely they are closer to god. well mary is.

also what religion is everyone who posts here

Stella Quotes are right on.

Do you believe the Church decides God and or speaks for God?

Do you believe you shouldn't eat meat on good Friday?  Purgatory?
 
The Catholic Church has Trillions of dollars in gold diamonds, property and hard cash.....yet millions die of hunger every year.  This is God?

[Dos Equis]

surely they are closer to god. well mary is.

Not really.  Isaiah 64:6 says our righteousness is as filthy rags.  A priest isn't any closer to God than anyone who has a personal relationship with Him. 

[Ursus]

stella i always enjoy talking to you about religion. you are sensible and educated.

do you know about fatima already? and what happened?

miraculous medals are based on this
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/requests/weapons3.asp

this is a picture. i keep it with me to keep me safe and also so that i can accept what god has decided for me.

here is a link which briefly explains about fatima though a google search will produce similar results though i find thi suseful, particularly the links at the bottom which lead on to otehr subjects

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/story1.asp

in regards to that dueteromy quote i think it refers to evil spirits.

[Ursus]

mary is the mother of god.

her eis mine. this one is form medujore (sp)

it is worn around the neck under the t shirt. I also keep one in my gym bag and take one to work etc.

[Butterbean]

Goudy, thanks for the kind words and the links.  I also enjoy talking to you about religion 

I read one of the links (so far) and found it interesting.  But the medal thing kind of concerns me:

(from the first link)
  "Within two years, having been given the approval of the Archbishop of Paris, the first medals were made and distributed in France. Immediately blessings began to shower down on those who wore it and it quickly became known as the 'Miraculous Medal'. In just a few years, millions were being distributed. No sacramental of the Church had made such an impact on the Church since the Rosary had routed the Albigensians and the Turks. It works miracles literally and seems to specialize in the impossible, the conversion of the hardened sinner, the care of the hopelessly ill. With the exception of the Holy Cross, no other Christian symbol was ever so widely multiplied, or was ever the instrument of so many marvelous results."

This seems to be saying that the medal actually has powers.  Do you think that if people believe that it has powers they could fall into a type of idolatry by thinking a man-made "thing" has powers to give them blessings, conversions and healings?  It makes me think of when Aaron made the golden calf and the people worshipped it which was an abomination to God.

Or do you think that it mostly serves as a reminder to people to think about God and His blessings?


Also, do you know if any company can make them or are they specifically made by a Catholic Church owned facility?

[Decker]

I went to a Catholic funeral over the weekend.  The entire catholic enterprise smacks of idolatry.

From praying to engravened crosses and dead saints to chanting prayers repeatedly to the 'miracle' of transmogrification where the laity is supposed to eat the actual body of christ and drink his blood.

I'm sorry but that is voodoo.

And I was raised a Catholic.

I try to have an open mind but the idolatry is obvious to me.

[Ursus]

Goudy, thanks for the kind words and the links.  I also enjoy talking to you about religion 

I read one of the links (so far) and found it interesting.  But the medal thing kind of concerns me:

(from the first link)
  "Within two years, having been given the approval of the Archbishop of Paris, the first medals were made and distributed in France. Immediately blessings began to shower down on those who wore it and it quickly became known as the 'Miraculous Medal'. In just a few years, millions were being distributed. No sacramental of the Church had made such an impact on the Church since the Rosary had routed the Albigensians and the Turks. It works miracles literally and seems to specialize in the impossible, the conversion of the hardened sinner, the care of the hopelessly ill. With the exception of the Holy Cross, no other Christian symbol was ever so widely multiplied, or was ever the instrument of so many marvelous results."

This seems to be saying that the medal actually has powers.  Do you think that if people believe that it has powers they could fall into a type of idolatry by thinking a man-made "thing" has powers to give them blessings, conversions and healings?  It makes me think of when Aaron made the golden calf and the people worshipped it which was an abomination to God.

Or do you think that it mostly serves as a reminder to people to think about God and His blessings?


Also, do you know if any company can make them or are they specifically made by a Catholic Church owned facility?

I think that it is is symbolism and the fact that each and every one is blessed that they are miraculous. they also bear one of the most powerful images within our faith. They are called miracles cos there is no explanation. It is ike the millions annually who travel to fatima, lourdes in france or knock in ireland or neother religious pilgrimage and are cured from the sick etc. Believe it or not this happens. People woth what were thought to be serious almost or perhaps even critical illnesses recover fully.

The very sick go to great lengths to go on these pilgrimages and drink the water from fatima etc. In lourdes in france, st bernadette who dies many many years ago has yet to start to decompose. She has not been treated  or preserved in anyway yet she died over 100 years ago. There are so many instances of miracles in teh catholic churrch-each instant is investigated by the church until they can eliminate every single possibility that it could perhaps have not been a miracle. Then they declare it a miracle.

On the 5th month of fatima over 70,000 saw the aparition. It was apparantly a torrential day, rain was pouring. Then the sun appeared and seemed to dance all over they sky. The rain then dried up. 1000s seen and documented this. After each of teh 5 months more and more people witnessed the aparition.

My granny also met padre pio and she had a cdmall piece of cloth belonging to his glove. My father has it today and keeps it safe and treasures it.

i do believe in miracles through the grace of god and the intercession of the saints. Whilst no miracle i dont think has happened to me i have seen great chance in peoples lives through the belief and trust in god.

If wearing the medal only serves to make me more optimistic and concious of my faith hopig to lead a better life then i believe no harm at the very least can come out of it. It is much safer believing in such a small piece of metal than believeing fundamentally and literally forcing and taking your faith teh the extremes suicide bombings etc.

Stella as far as i know the medals are produced by any company. they are not controlled by the catholic church. they are simply blessed by a priest.

The funny thing is i have found maybe 5 of these medals in the past year.

stella if you get the chance please read the second link. its more pertinant i think. Also if it leaves you feeling dubious or sceptical its still very interesting read. especially about the secrets of the vatican.

anymore questions feel free to ask. thats for anyone

[Ursus]

I went to a Catholic funeral over the weekend.  The entire catholic enterprise smacks of idolatry.

From praying to engravened crosses and dead saints to chanting prayers repeatedly to the 'miracle' of transmogrification where the laity is supposed to eat the actual body of christ and drink his blood.

I'm sorry but that is voodoo.

And I was raised a Catholic.

I try to have an open mind but the idolatry is obvious to me.

we pray to god though use the images crosses paintings etc to focus our mind. We always pray to god never to painting statues etc.

ytransubstantion is a mystery of faith. Faith by its very defination is believeing at times even when not 100 percent sure. Its like the holy trinity. we are not asked to understand of know. simply to believe.

[Ursus]

there was a childrens catyechism in teh house which answer all these questions cant find the danm thing lol would help so much

[OzmO]

What gets me, that in the face of contradicting scripture Catholics continue to follow a corrupt church.

I was raised Catholic. 

[Ursus]

i follow god, not the church. and i believe in god.

Yes, at tiumes there are criticisms of the church etc but i believe in teh goodness of it rather than the deviant element.

My mum even volunteered to work on the child protection branch here in belfast. She invesigates all claims against priestes lay people but also children who approach the church looking for help.

[ToxicAvenger]

I think the whole thing is an abomination of what Jesus and God intended.

Praying to someone else to pray to God for you instead of praying to God directly goes against what the Bible teaches.

THIS is why any dipctions of mohammed are forbidden in islam...apparently mohamed didn't want people praying to him....he wanted people praying to god..<however the mohd cartoons fasco ws blown grossly out of proportion by the muslims>


but i'm biased since my  parents r sunni muslims.

[OzmO]

i follow god, not the church. and i believe in god.

Yes, at tiumes there are criticisms of the church etc but i believe in teh goodness of it rather than the deviant element.

My mum even volunteered to work on the child protection branch here in belfast. She invesigates all claims against priestes lay people but also children who approach the church looking for help.

The Fatima thing is a church thing, not a god thing.  If you follow God and not the church why do you go against scripture?

[Butterbean]

It is ike the millions annually who travel to fatima, lourdes in france or knock in ireland or neother religious pilgrimage and are cured from the sick etc. Believe it or not this happens. People woth what were thought to be serious almost or perhaps even critical illnesses recover fully.

Goudy, is everyone who makes the pilgrimage to fatima healed?  If not, do you know what percentage comes away believing they are healed?

My granny also met padre pio

Who is padre pio?

stella if you get the chance please read the second link. its more pertinant i think. Also if it leaves you feeling dubious or sceptical its still very interesting read. especially about the secrets of the vatican.

Thanks Goudy, I read the 2nd link...it is very interesting.

A couple questions I have from it:

The first is:  What is "The Immaculate Heart of Mary?"

The second one comes from this part of the link:

"The first part of the Secret was a horrifying vision of hell "where the souls of poor sinners go" and contained an urgent plea from Our Lady for acts of prayer and sacrifice to save souls."

Goudy, is the above saying that people on earth can pray for and make sacrifices for people that are in hell and get them out? 


My most important question to you is this:  Have you ever accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?  This means you believe you are a sinner and have accepted the free gift of forgiveness provided for you by Jesus dying on the cross and rising again.  Is your faith for salvation in Christ alone?


Thanks for all this info Goudy!  Very interesting

[Ursus]

Goudy, is everyone who makes the pilgrimage to fatima healed?  If not, do you know what percentage comes away believing they are healed?
Who is padre pio?

Thanks Goudy, I read the 2nd link...it is very interesting.

A couple questions I have from it:

The first is:  What is "The Immaculate Heart of Mary?"

The second one comes from this part of the link:

"The first part of the Secret was a horrifying vision of hell "where the souls of poor sinners go" and contained an urgent plea from Our Lady for acts of prayer and sacrifice to save souls."

Goudy, is the above saying that people on earth can pray for and make sacrifices for people that are in hell and get them out? 


My most important question to you is this:  Have you ever accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?  This means you believe you are a sinner and have accepted the free gift of forgiveness provided for you by Jesus dying on the cross and rising again.  Is your faith for salvation in Christ alone?


Thanks for all this info Goudy!  Very interesting

Stella, thansk for the response and taking time and effort to read the link. Ill try to answer these wuestions as honestly and frankly as i know best.

This quote sums it up possibly better than i could. its from wikipedia

The Immaculate Heart of Mary originally The Sacred Heart of Mary is a devotional name used by some Roman Catholics and Anglicans to refer to the physical heart of Mary, the mother of Jesus as a symbol of Mary's interior life, her joys and sorrows, her virtues and hidden perfections, and, above all, her virginal love for her God, her maternal love for her Son, Jesus, and her compassionate love for all people.

She was filled purely and totally with the grace of god. il attach a pic of it though there are many variations many will recognise this one.



In regards to the urget plea sto pray to save souls i think i have an idea though i dont want to post it till i get it 100% right. Its similar to praying for sinners tho please be patient ill get back to you.

I am a sinner. I do believe that god gave up his only son out of love for mankind. His son was condemned to death, death on a cross. This bit is hard to explain and i may edit it or reword it or come back to it at a later stage. My faith is not selfish so that i will be saved. It is not teh soel reason for belief. My belief is much deeper and harder to explain. It is through personal experience. I do hope that i will go to heaven. Life, as we know it is simply 'passing through the valley of teh shadow of death' to our real life, eternal life in heaven. This is simply a step on our jpourney to heaven. There is much greater things than this mortal life. my faith is for god. who with my heart and soul i believe i exists.

In regaards to fatima i will search for statistiocs of people who go to it and perhaps look for faith dtories from it. Not all who go on pilgrimiges are ill or in need of healing. Many enjoy it and feel a really deep sense of safety and wellbeing and security and peace by attending these. My parish runs man many pilgrimages a year. and there are only 4000 in my parish of st vincent de paul.

padre pio recieved the stigmata.  (this link is a very good link http://www.catholic.org/saints/stigmata.php )In modern times too! In his hands feet and sides. thousands upon thousands upon thosands seen personally this and his own hands. Sometimes they would disappear suddenly only to reappear just as quickly. However some time later it stayed and remained permananr. At times he would lose huge amounts of blood.

a wiki pedia search or a google search will reveal this better than perhaps i can explain. tho ill post a pic of him.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stp27002.htm

many people adopt him as their patron saint. he is esxtremly popular here in ireland

sorry it is erraticly written. ideas and words were coming to me in no real order. ne more questions. You will fiond padre pio in particular v interesting at the least. please write back when u trawl through it if u have ne more questions

[amc1980]

[Ursus]

what the hell is that???

[Ursus]

i thought this would have generated more replies

[Butterbean]

what the hell is that???

For some reason this made me laugh 

padre pio recieved the stigmata.  (this link is a very good link http://www.catholic.org/saints/stigmata.php )

Goudy, I had heard of the stigmata before but hadn't ever learned much about it.  Thanks for that link and if you have more suggested links I'd be interested to read them.

A few questions:

1.  Do only Catholics receive the stigmata?

2.  Have you ever heard the possibility of the stigmata and/or ectasies being the result of demonic possession?

3.  In this part from the link:

"Physicians do not succeed in curing these wounds with remedies. On the other hand, unlike natural wounds of a certain duration, those of stigmatics do not give forth a fetid odour. To this there is known but one exception: St. Rita of Cassia had received on her brow a supernatural wound produced by a thorn detached from the crown of the crucifix. Though this emitted an unbearable odour, there was never any suppuration or morbid alteration of the tissues. Sometimes these wounds give forth perfumes, for example those of Juana of the Cross, Franciscan prioress of Toledo, and Bl. Lucy of Narni. To sum up, there is only one means of proving scientifically that the imagination, that is auto-suggestion, may produce stigmata: instead of hypothesis, analogous facts in the natural order must be produced, namely wounds produced apart from a religious idea. This had not been done."

Is this saying that Rita was actually pricked by a thorn from the crown that Christ wore when He was crucified?  How did they come to that conclusion?  Do you believe that story is true?  Do you have any other good links on that particular story?

[Hedgehog]

Stella Quotes are right on.

Do you believe the Church decides God and or speaks for God?

Do you believe you shouldn't eat meat on good Friday?  Purgatory?
 
The Catholic Church has Trillions of dollars in gold diamonds, property and hard cash.....yet millions die of hunger every year.  This is God?

Lots of other churches have extreme wealth.

I don't see them spending all that money on helping people in the 3rd world either.

But rather building houses of vanity.