Author Topic: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?  (Read 1916 times)

Eyeball Chambers

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14344
  • Would you hold still? You're making me fuck up...
Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« on: September 04, 2007, 10:57:49 AM »
August 31, 2007

Test Marketing

If there were a threat level on the possibility of war with Iran, it might have just gone up to orange. Barnett Rubin, the highly respected Afghanistan expert at New York University, has written an account of a conversation with a friend who has connections to someone at a neoconservative institution in Washington. Rubin can’t confirm his friend’s story; neither can I. But it’s worth a heads-up:

    They [the source’s institution] have “instructions” (yes, that was the word used) from the Office of the Vice-President to roll out a campaign for war with Iran in the week after Labor Day; it will be coordinated with the American Enterprise Institute, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox, and the usual suspects. It will be heavy sustained assault on the airwaves, designed to knock public sentiment into a position from which a war can be maintained. Evidently they don’t think they’ll ever get majority support for this—they want something like 35-40 percent support, which in their book is “plenty.”

True? I don’t know. Plausible? Absolutely. It follows the pattern of the P.R. campaign that started around this time in 2002 and led to the Iraq war. The President’s rhetoric on Iran has been nothing short of bellicose lately, warning of “the shadow of a nuclear holocaust.” And the Iranian government’s behavior—detaining British servicemen and arresting American passport holders, pushing ahead with uranium enrichment, and, by many reliable accounts, increasing its funding and training for anti-American militias in Iraq—seems intentionally provocative. Perhaps President Ahmedinejad and the mullahs feel that they win either way: they humiliate the superpower if it doesn’t take the bait, and they shore up their deeply unpopular regime at home if it does. Preëmptive war requires calculations (and, often, miscalculations) on two sides, not just one, as Saddam learned in 2003. When tensions are this high between two countries and powerful factions in both act as if hostilities are in their interest, war is likely to follow.

It’s one thing for the American Enterprise Institute, the Weekly Standard, et al to champion a war they support. It’s another to jump like circus animals at the crack of the White House whip. If the propaganda campaign predicted by Rubin’s friend is launched, less subservient news organizations should ask certain questions, and keep asking them: Does the Administration expect the Iranian regime to fall in the event of an attack? If yes, what will replace it? If no (and it will not), why would the Administration deliberately set about to strengthen the regime’s hold on power? What will the Administration do to protect highly vulnerable American lives and interests in Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the world against the Iranian reprisals that will follow? What if Iran strikes against Israel? What will be the strategy when the Iranian nuclear program, damaged but not destroyed, resumes? How will the Administration handle the international alarm and opprobrium that would be an attack’s inevitable fallout?

If this really is a return to the early fall of 2002 all over again, then I’m fairly sure that no one at the top of the Administration is worrying about the answers.

Postscript: Barnett Rubin just called me. His source spoke with a neocon think-tanker who corroborated the story of the propaganda campaign and had this to say about it: “I am a Republican. I am a conservative. But I’m not a raging lunatic. This is lunatic.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2007/08/if-there-were-a.html
S

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 11:13:26 AM »
There's no way the US people will ever support a war on Iran.

The support for a war on Iran is weak, except perhaps in the White House itself.

I doubt Bush can even get his own party behind something like that.
As empty as paradise

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 11:59:16 AM »
I think the case for war with Iran is alot stronger then it was for Iraq. I think they are a bigger threat. I think that they have been laying the ground work for this for about a year or so. The French are on board and it remains to be seen what Israel will do. They have been saying for a long time now that they will do something if we won't. Also it apppears that many other Arab countries, Jordan, Egypt Saudi Arabia don't wanta nuclear Iran coupled with an Iran that controls Iraq. I am not for attacking Iran. I think we can pressure and isolate this guy if more countries IE China and Russia get on board. I think that Israel may be getting very impatient. I think we'd loose the support of other anti-Iranian arab nations..if Israel went of the reservation. I think this is something the administration is weighting. I also think that the admin better lay out everything Iaran has done...how they are a threat and what needs to be done..to the American people..before doing anything. Anybody who does not agree needs to explain how and what Iran will do in response...they need to discuss sleeper cells in this country and Europe...possible implications with gas prices...what terror groups will do in the Middle East..these are many 2nd order affects to attacking Iran that need to be laid out. If we do attack..the plan calls for a 3 day war which will completely wipe out the Iranian military...no ground campaign etc. I think this sounds about right. I am not for attacking Iran
L

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 12:05:23 PM »
I think the case for war with Iran is alot stronger then it was for Iraq. I think they are a bigger threat. I think that they have been laying the ground work for this for about a year or so. The French are on board and it remains to be seen what Israel will do. They have been saying for a long time now that they will do something if we won't. Also it apppears that many other Arab countries, Jordan, Egypt Saudi Arabia don't wanta nuclear Iran coupled with an Iran that controls Iraq. I am not for attacking Iran. I think we can pressure and isolate this guy if more countries IE China and Russia get on board. I think that Israel may be getting very impatient. I think we'd loose the support of other anti-Iranian arab nations..if Israel went of the reservation. I think this is something the administration is weighting. I also think that the admin better lay out everything Iaran has done...how they are a threat and what needs to be done..to the American people..before doing anything. Anybody who does not agree needs to explain how and what Iran will do in response...they need to discuss sleeper cells in this country and Europe...possible implications with gas prices...what terror groups will do in the Middle East..these are many 2nd order affects to attacking Iran that need to be laid out. If we do attack..the plan calls for a 3 day war which will completely wipe out the Iranian military...no ground campaign etc. I think this sounds about right. I am not for attacking Iran

do you really think this is feasible - I mean specifically the 3 day war, no ground troops etc..??

It just seems overly optimistic.  We just bomb for 72 hours and somehow completely destroy their entire military and then just go home.   

ieffinhatecardio

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5202
  • More proof God is a man.
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 12:10:26 PM »
do you really think this is feasible - I mean specifically the 3 day war, no ground troops etc..??

It just seems overly optimistic.  We just bomb for 72 hours and somehow completely destroy their entire military and then just go home.   

It seems more than optimistic, it seems delusional.

Good luck selling this war to Congress and the American people.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 12:11:08 PM »
Yeah actually....small units like their SF teams etc would still exist. But their aircraft..Navy..command and control etc would be gone...all their HQ's..anything that can't be moved and hidden would be gone very quickly. We'd knock out their commo and then their aircraft. 2nd rung military organizations such as Iran have a very hard time communicating and painting an operational picture when everything is working..once they can't talk, it will be chaos....I am strickly talking conventional..not insurgency or what hezballah will do...Despite what the news says and despite the Iraqi INSURGENCY..nobody comes close conventionally.
L

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »
Bro with all due respect....conventionall y..everybody is like children. Iraq had a huge Army in 1991. 4th largest.....Saddam could not talk to his guys.....all his major commo nodes were wiped out in an evening. He lost badly in 100 hours. They would not fight enmass in 2003 during the ground campaign...they lost quickly. We're talking stealth aircraft...cruise missles.....B1/B 52 strikes once the anti-air threat was over. We are talking 72 hours of constant bombing. I am not talking about patrolling Tehran.
L

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 12:16:43 PM »
Yeah actually....small units like their SF teams etc would still exist. But their aircraft..Navy..command and control etc would be gone...all their HQ's..anything that can't be moved and hidden would be gone very quickly. We'd knock out their commo and then their aircraft. 2nd rung military organizations such as Iran have a very hard time communicating and painting an operational picture when everything is working..once they can't talk, it will be chaos....I am strickly talking conventional..not insurgency or what hezballah will do...Despite what the news says and despite the Iraqi INSURGENCY..nobody comes close conventionally.

ok, well it seems you've thought this out more than the entire Bush Administration thought out Iraq

What happens in the aftermath of this 3 day war?

btw - I'm no fan of Iran and I definitely don't want those nuts having a nuclear bomb (or chemical, biological, ect..)

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 12:21:00 PM »
There's no way the US people will ever support a war on Iran.

The support for a war on Iran is weak, except perhaps in the White House itself.

I doubt Bush can even get his own party behind something like that.
Don't underestimate the power of the American stupidity...

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 12:23:04 PM »
Israel is not on the fence about attacking Iran.  Israel has always viewed Iran as a threat, moreso than Iraq ever was.

The run up to war with Iran is a relfection of the run up to war with Iraq.  For Iraq, it allegedly had WMDs and would attack the US, an ally or arm terrorists that would attack the US or an ally. 

For Iran, its domestic nuclear power development program is a charade and it is really developing nuclear arms.  That allegation has been discredited.

But now there are allegations of Iran's government aiding terrorists in attacks upon US troops in the Iraq war.  This allegation too is unfounded but it has political traction.

Of the candidates for president, only Ron Paul is calling "bullshit" on the allegations and war overtones to Iran.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2007, 12:25:40 PM »
Bro with all due respect....conventionall y..everybody is like children. Iraq had a huge Army in 1991. 4th largest.....Saddam could not talk to his guys.....all his major commo nodes were wiped out in an evening. He lost badly in 100 hours. They would not fight enmass in 2003 during the ground campaign...they lost quickly. We're talking stealth aircraft...cruise missles.....B1/B 52 strikes once the anti-air threat was over. We are talking 72 hours of constant bombing. I am not talking about patrolling Tehran.

HH - I appreciate your insight on military matters and I have no doubt that the US far superior both conventially and from a WMD perspective.  

Frankly, if  3 day war could work I wouldn't mind seeing it happen although I have my doubts, abeit meaningless, since my opinion (or any of ours) won't matter

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2007, 12:26:02 PM »
Bro with all due respect....conventionall y..everybody is like children. Iraq had a huge Army in 1991. 4th largest.....Saddam could not talk to his guys.....all his major commo nodes were wiped out in an evening. He lost badly in 100 hours. They would not fight enmass in 2003 during the ground campaign...they lost quickly. We're talking stealth aircraft...cruise missles.....B1/B 52 strikes once the anti-air threat was over. We are talking 72 hours of constant bombing. I am not talking about patrolling Tehran.
Care to metion what you left out... They won't exactly be engaging in traditional conventional warfare either...  Go ahead, call BS on that...  You're leaving out a big part of the shitstorm and you know it.  Seems America has pulled a big oops in Iran on more than one occasion.  Don't for a second think you'll bomb the crap out of them and call it good... I freaking know you have better forsight than that.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2007, 12:28:47 PM »
The bad outways the good....I prefer the old destabilization/sanctions/crumble from within senario. i would hope that should they bomb..that they have cut a deal with the mullahs or somebody to try and seize power. I am worried that Israel has sent Washington an ultimatum. I found the French PM's remarks curious...he's on board..Germany will be on board etc.

Hedge...a small number of people are pushing for the militray approach. I think if Amedinanutbag was holding the keys to a bomb and saying he's going to launch..then we go in..if not..we wait. I think we can wait..Israel may not think so and may act accordingly.

Decker...Iran is operating In both Afghaninstan and Iraq....believ what u want..they are. Are they building bombs..many folks think so....We can't afford a nuclear Iran. There are other ways to stop em. While this administration has almost zero credibility here..it does not mean..in this case, that the wolf does not exist.


BESERK..read my first post...2nd order affects. I know full well what will happen and thats why I'm not for it. They will activate cells here and abroad. Hez will begin new attacks in lebanon. They will destabilize the entire middle east. I know full well..better they fall from within.
L

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2007, 12:55:33 PM »
It's not a matter of me believing what I want.  During the run up to Iraq, the Bush administration used every rationale in the book to justify the attack.

Re Iran and Afghanistan, none of the allegations against them are proven nor are they all that credible.  An EFP factory was found in Iraq by troops during Operation Black Eagle.  "explosively formed projectiles"   So the notion that Iran must be supplying insurgents with EFPs b/c no one else makes them is debunked.  Parts are sold on black markets all over the middle east.  To conclude that the Iranian government is making a concerted effort to arm the insurgents is not merited.




Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2007, 01:02:16 PM »
"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months,"

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2007, 01:12:56 PM »
It's not a matter of me believing what I want.  During the run up to Iraq, the Bush administration used every rationale in the book to justify the attack.

Re Iran and Afghanistan, none of the allegations against them are proven nor are they all that credible.  An EFP factory was found in Iraq by troops during Operation Black Eagle.  "explosively formed projectiles"   So the notion that Iran must be supplying insurgents with EFPs b/c no one else makes them is debunked.  Parts are sold on black markets all over the middle east.  To conclude that the Iranian government is making a concerted effort to arm the insurgents is not merited.


Decker...On this one u just don't have the access to info I've got. I'm digging around to find some Rand stuff u can access. The Revolutionary Guard is opperating in the south. They are training guys in Lebanon..they have shelled Northern Iraq. Our own SOF has come up against them in both countries. Insurgents have admitted to being trained by Iran.




L

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63727
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2007, 01:20:15 PM »
August 31, 2007

Test Marketing

If there were a threat level on the possibility of war with Iran, it might have just gone up to orange. Barnett Rubin, the highly respected Afghanistan expert at New York University, has written an account of a conversation with a friend who has connections to someone at a neoconservative institution in Washington. Rubin can’t confirm his friend’s story; neither can I. But it’s worth a heads-up:


So someone in the White House tells someone at a think tank who tells a "friend" who tells Barnett Rubin who writes an article?  Doesn't sound very reliable. 

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2007, 01:34:46 PM »

I don't doubt that there is Iranian support of shia militant groups in Iraq not aligned with the shia majority ruling Iraq.  Iran is shia.  It will have shia sympathies.  That's a no-brainer.  So shia insurgents are being trained by the shi Iranian government to battle the US forces defending the shia run Iraq. 

Doesn't exactly sound like an ironclad case for war, does it?

I would appreciate seeing the proof of the US's case against Iran. 


headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2007, 01:46:33 PM »
Well thats my other point..I have no faith in Bush or anybody to spell this out. They did a poor job in Iraq and I'm not convinced, from a PR standpoint that these guys can make a case.
L

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2007, 01:48:48 PM »
Plus they should make a case from 1979 on, which they won't do. They won't do this the right way. We need to avoid this course of action. While much of Iran IE their military will be a smoking crater, I'm worried about all the other guys spread around the world.
L

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2007, 04:47:05 PM »
Bro with all due respect....conventionall y..everybody is like children. Iraq had a huge Army in 1991. 4th largest.....Saddam could not talk to his guys.....all his major commo nodes were wiped out in an evening. He lost badly in 100 hours. They would not fight enmass in 2003 during the ground campaign...they lost quickly. We're talking stealth aircraft...cruise missles.....B1/B 52 strikes once the anti-air threat was over. We are talking 72 hours of constant bombing. I am not talking about patrolling Tehran.
dude are you kidding me, how many times are we going to repeat this same mistake? you of all people should realize this. just bomb them from the air and assume all is taken care of???? that NEVER WORKS, sure we could mop up their 'official' national military in days, and destroy their government, but then what would we have? A SECOND IRAQ, TIMES 2.
if you must go to war, then you have to prepared to go all out. and that means a draft, and that means hundreds of thousands of troops ON THE GROUND, with clear orders, goals, and objectives. if we are too stupid to have learned ANYTHING from the iraq debacle...i dont even know what to say

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2007, 05:49:20 PM »
Sure, they could be wiped out in a day.

But then what?  ::)

Eyeball Chambers

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14344
  • Would you hold still? You're making me fuck up...
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 06:09:45 PM »
What are the chances of Iran becoming another massive Haven for Terrorism?
S

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 06:20:06 PM »
What are the chances of Iran becoming another massive Haven for Terrorism?

What are the chances of Ann Coulter endorsing Hillary?

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Media To Sell Attack On Iran?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 07:20:51 AM »
http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?id=7380408

Case in point...let them crumble from the inside.

Matrix...I'm not denying your point. I think we should not do what the Admin is pointing to....But somebody mentioned what we'd do to iran and I answered based on a 'leaked" Pentagon report over the weekend. U don't leak a report saying u can knock over a country in 3 days, if u intend to do just that. Atleast not as quickly as things seem to be copming together. This would not be a Clinton/Kosovo air campaign. We'd smoke eveything....but like CJ said now what....well u u would have terror attacks everywhere. U would have a Shia uprising in the South of Iraq..u would have major issues in Afghanistan...better to let them crumble. I think this is all part of a Psy-Op plan to continue to pressure  the Mullahs to remove nutbag and disable their nuke program.
L