Author Topic: Patriots Steal Signals ( merged mega thread)  (Read 31291 times)

Decker

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2007, 09:25:26 AM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070912

Great article on this.....
That is a great article.  In all honesty, the Pats were my favorite team right behind GB.  I still think Brady is the greatest.

headhuntersix

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #101 on: September 13, 2007, 09:52:22 AM »
Something else I dug up since the PATS/SD game is on Sunday. LT has been only semi silent. Really SD should just play the game and say nothing about last Sunday or last year.
I can understand why LT thought it was disrespectful and unclassy that the Patriots started 'doing the dance Shawne Merriman is known for.' Imagine if the Chargers won and some of their players went and did the Tom Brady dance at the midfield? Oh wait ... Tom Brady doesn't have a dance because he's a class act and doesn't do steroids."
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Grape Ape

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #102 on: September 13, 2007, 10:17:20 AM »

It has been confirmed the pats never saw the tape. It had absolutly no outcome at all. You need to look at the tape to do what you are proposing. Impossible since the camera man never gave the pats the tape. And when searched had no communication devices on him. What the pats where doing was trying to exploit a loophole in the nfl rulebook. It is illegal to tape and use signals for a game in progress. It is however not illegal to tape signals archive them and review them later. Nfl teams do anything they can yo get an advantage. Unfortunatly for Bill the loophole will not be allowed.

They said on EEI that in addition to taping, the camerman was signaling as well.  I haven't paid attention - has this been refuted?
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #103 on: September 13, 2007, 10:47:21 AM »
I don't know if video taping signs doesn't go on all the time.  I also don't know if other coaches have employed the same method.

What I do know is is that Belicheat got caught for video taping signals of an opponent.  That's cheating.

Everything you said is probably true, but Belichick got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

It's like speeding, everybody does it but if you're caught by the cops, you pay the penalty.

On the other hand, what should the NFL do?  Turn a blind eye to a cheater caught red-handed?

That's bad policy.

The Speeding analogy is an excellent one. I don't think the NFL should turn a blind eye, I think Belichick should pay the price and move on. My question is regarding certain people's reactions. This is being blown way out of proportion with some people. The Pats are an excellent team and an easy target right now. Like HH said, if this were Tampa Bay everyone would have stopped talking about it by now.

body88

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #104 on: September 13, 2007, 10:48:17 AM »
They said on EEI that in addition to taping, the camerman was signaling as well.  I haven't paid attention - has this been refuted?


Yes its been refuted. If you think this is true you are conceding that a 24 year old communicatoins intern decoded Eric manginis entire defensive gameplan in one quarter then signaled it to the pats. In order to match schemes with hundreds of hand signals you need the tape. Not to mention you have to wait until they call the formation on the field, which can be changed on the line. The guy was not taping and frantically signlaing the pats all game. The patriots kicked the crap out of the jets in the second quarter after the tape had been confiscated and the guy taping it had been kicked out. They didnt use the tape in that game. That has been established especially on eei. I have been listning also. They first talked about this yesterday on the big show.

Signals have nothing to do with 108 yard kick returns and 50 yard bombs into triple coverage. Brady mad a perfect throw to a guy who roasted 3 defenders. Thats not from signs, thats bad play by the jets.

body88

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #105 on: September 13, 2007, 10:51:32 AM »
The Speeding analogy is an excellent one. I don't think the NFL should turn a blind eye, I think Belichick should pay the price and move on. My question is regarding certain people's reactions. This is being blown way out of proportion with some people. The Pats are an excellent team and an easy target right now. Like HH said, if this were Tampa Bay everyone would have stopped talking about it by now.

Last year Zack Thomas flat out bragged about learning Bradys audibles before they played the pats. They repordedly purchased a tape that contained audio of Bradys calls at the line. That is illegal.  No one cared because the dolphins suck and the patriots dont. You mean to tell me the totally dominated the pats and held them to zero points because they where a good team? They where AWFUL.

My question is had the pats cheated at everything they did, how could they get shut out totally by one of the worst teams in the leauge? WOuldent they know all there signs? The patriots should pay for an obvious screw up, but people are taking this way to far. Lifetime bans? Give me a frigging break.

Decker

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #106 on: September 13, 2007, 11:01:36 AM »
The Speeding analogy is an excellent one. I don't think the NFL should turn a blind eye, I think Belichick should pay the price and move on. My question is regarding certain people's reactions. This is being blown way out of proportion with some people. The Pats are an excellent team and an easy target right now. Like HH said, if this were Tampa Bay everyone would have stopped talking about it by now.
Thanks.   I see your point. 

There will be piling on just b/c the Pats are one of the greatest dynasties ever--GB, Pitt, NE. (historical ranking)

Sometimes speculation runs away with some people.  In a way that's understandable b/c cheating will elicit all types of responses--from bitter fans to staunch supporters.  I can see some wiggle room on whether NE should surrender future draft picks.  But I think it should be certain that Belichick receive a suspension.

CalvinH

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #107 on: September 13, 2007, 11:40:33 AM »
Just so everybody knows.
in ALL sports,players and teams will do whatever they can to get an advantage. ;)
not saying everybody but this type of stuff has been going on since day 1.
my favorite, true or not was the story that LT{the real LT#56 ;D}used to send hookers to the team hotel of the next day opponents to try to tire them out!! :o :o

headhuntersix

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2007, 11:50:02 AM »
If they suspend BB...1 game. No draft picks and a fine....or draft picks and a fine but no suspension.
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headhuntersix

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #109 on: September 13, 2007, 11:53:17 AM »
Guys on sirius were calling for life time bands....Wilcox and Shine were laughing their asses off. I think the best one I've heard is that BB has to wear a 3 piece suit for the rest of the year.
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Grape Ape

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2007, 12:45:37 PM »

Yes its been refuted. In order to match signals with hundreds of hand signals you need the tape. The guy was not taping and frantically signlaing the pats all game. The patriots kicked the crap out of the jets in the second quarter after the tape had been confiscated and the guy taping it had been kicked out. They didnt use the tape in that game. That has been established especially on eei. I have been listning also. They first talked about this yesterday on the big show.

Signals have nothing to do with 108 yard kick returns and 50 yard bombs into triple coverage. Brady mad a perfect throw to a guy who roasted 3 defenders. Thats not from signs, thats bad play by the jets.

Don't get me wrong - the Pats could've printed out a list of all the plays they were going to run and given them to the Jets and still would have destroyed them.  I just hadn't heard that update.

Any predictions?

Mine - 2 game suspension, 50k fine.
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body88

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2007, 01:23:50 PM »
Don't get me wrong - the Pats could've printed out a list of all the plays they were going to run and given them to the Jets and still would have destroyed them.  I just hadn't heard that update.

Any predictions?

Mine - 2 game suspension, 50k fine.

I hear you. I have no problem with people being upset over this. Nor do I have issue with the pats being punished. As much as it goes on, they got nabbed. I just think ALOT of people ( not you ) are going wayyyyy overboard with this since they just plain old don't like the pats because of all the wins. Bill is kind of a cold guy also.

Goodell is going to set an example with the pats. To let the league to know to shape up or else. Shanahan and co lost multiple draft picks for cheating the cap numerous times. Allowing them to have more players playing then they should have. I think draft picks will be taken.

Although I would not be surprised if he goes overboard to set an example. Any suspension over  attempting to steal signs, when you can explain the rule says for only game use is wayyyyyy overboard imo. The pats didnt even see the tape, nor use it to win that game. There is infact no ruling saying you cannot tape signs for later documentation. Problem is that wont be accepted.

If the broncos can cheat the cap over and over with Elway and not get suspended I think it would be big time overkill to suspend Bill.

headhuntersix

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2007, 01:38:28 PM »
Pick or picks and fine..they mentioned that the picks could or would be spread over a two year period.
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Decker

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #113 on: September 13, 2007, 01:42:00 PM »
—Packers cornerback Al Harris might have been on to something when he wondered aloud right after they were drilled 35-0 by visiting New England last November how polished the Patriots were on offense.

Harris said at the time: "It almost looked like they knew what we were doing. You have to tip your hat to them, the coaches and players, especially their offense. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays and made us check out (of) some things. I don't know who calls their plays, but (head coach Bill) Belichick is pretty good."


body88

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2007, 02:03:50 PM »
—Packers cornerback Al Harris might have been on to something when he wondered aloud right after they were drilled 35-0 by visiting New England last November how polished the Patriots were on offense.

Harris said at the time: "It almost looked like they knew what we were doing. You have to tip your hat to them, the coaches and players, especially their offense. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays and made us check out (of) some things. I don't know who calls their plays, but (head coach Bill) Belichick is pretty good."



Then why when the leauge looked into it was no punishment handed down? Why did the packers not form a formal complaint? How do you explain Miami beating NE by thirty points last year and holding them to zero? miami was dreadful.

Zack Thomas was outright bragging about knowing the pats line calls. It was reoported the phins bought tapes with audio which illegal to use. The pats filed a claim which was ignored. Where is the outrage?

So from this point on its safe to say any time a team beats another one its cheating.

Decker

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2007, 02:23:30 PM »
Then why when the leauge looked into it was no punishment handed down? Why did the packers not form a formal complaint? How do you explain Miami beating NE by thirty points last year and holding them to zero? miami was dreadful.

Zack Thomas was outright bragging about knowing the pats line calls. It was reoported the phins bought tapes with audio which illegal to use. The pats filed a claim which was ignored. Where is the outrage?

So from this point on its safe to say any time a team beats another one its cheating.
No style of cheating is perfect.  Look at last year's games.  Look at how the Patriots pulled out many second half victories.  My boss showed me on CBS sportsline the scoring of NE by quarter/half for each game in 2006.

Does that mean that the cheating was effective?  I don't know but it does raise questions.

What I do know for sure is that Belichick has given the New England Patriots organization and the NFL a blackeye.

body88

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Re: Report: Patriots Bring Spies to Meadowlands; Steal Signals From Jets
« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2007, 02:38:29 PM »
No style of cheating is perfect.  Look at last year's games.  Look at how the Patriots pulled out many second half victories.  My boss showed me on CBS sportsline the scoring of NE by quarter/half for each game in 2006.

Does that mean that the cheating was effective?  I don't know but it does raise questions.

What I do know for sure is that Belichick has given the New England Patriots organization and the NFL a blackeye.

Look how the colts pulled out many second half victories. They pulled out a ton. The chargers etc etc. That logic is flawed. Last year in green bay there was no official report of a camera on the field. This is the FIRST time this was reported. If you think stealing signs is what the pats are in trouble for then you are wrong. That is not illegal. You can sit there and stare at a guy making signs all day long. Write them down and yell what they are trying to do. What is illegal was having the video "machine" on the field, if the premise was to use the footage during that game. Belichick is saying there was no rule stating you could not video tape the signs and use the footage at a later date for scouting. Which if you read the rule, you can see the clear loophole. It does not say you cannot film and store it for a later date. That is not illegal. Now unless the pats prove they where not going to use the film had they gotten it at game time thats a moot point. And that is why they will get a penalty. And I agree they where dumb for trying it, and deserve to be punished. But these huge penalties are over the top. So many people have no clue what they are talking about with this. I think people honestly believe the pats stole signals and then ran, decoded in 10 min,  which led to them killing the jets. The pats never saw the tape, and they beat the jets bad after the inturn was escorted our of the stadium. They never used the tape! That said they should be fined and lose a few draft picks for being stupid. and violating the rule of having a video machine on the field. People are make this out to be si much bigger then it is.

I think Tom Brady and great players might have something to do with a better performance after the half. Not running in the locker room and decoding hundreds of signals in 11 mins of time. Even if you know sings, they can changed at the line several times.

Any coach in the NFL will tell you people are payed to try and decode signals. Shula, Parcels, Edwards have all come out to say this is a big part of the game.

You think stealing sings is a black eye? This is commonplace in the NFL. I would think the Vick Situation or Players getting in legal trouble already gave the NFL a "black eye". Im curious what you think about the phins dstealing the pats audibles last year in there shutout of the pats at Gillete.



danielson

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Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2007, 06:02:31 PM »
Some of the players have commented that they are worried that it may come to that. They are obvious cheaters and would probably have not won any of them had they not cheated. I think it would be a PR nightmare to do so, but do they really deserve them knowing what we know now? Also, Belichick admitted to cheating, should he be banned from the NFL?
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UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #118 on: September 13, 2007, 06:04:59 PM »
Ridiculous, Mr. Myagi.

danielson

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Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #119 on: September 13, 2007, 06:08:00 PM »
Ridiculous, Mr. Myagi.

Is it? I read in the USA Today that some of the players were worried they may have to. LT said, and I quote "The Patriots motto is if we aren't cheating, we aren't trying". Hines Ward is convinced that they were cheated in a playoff game. Brett Favre is convinced they have been cheating for years as well.  Also, how do you explain a 6th round draft pick becoming a stud QB? Or a washed up WR getting 188 yards after sucking for 3 years ???
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UPINTHEMGUTS

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Goodell lays the smack down on the Pats!
« Reply #120 on: September 13, 2007, 06:12:54 PM »
Stiff as far as draft picks go. CHEATERS JUSTICE!


Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals
ESPN.com news services

Updated: September 13, 2007, 8:53 PM ET
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 NEW YORK -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
NFL policy states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video shooting locations for club coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead

danielson

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Re: Goodell lays the smack down on the Pats!
« Reply #121 on: September 13, 2007, 06:16:13 PM »
Not nearly stiff enough. The Jets played a fair game, the Pats didn't. They should have been forced to forfeit.
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UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Goodell lays the smack down on the Pats!
« Reply #122 on: September 13, 2007, 06:19:54 PM »
Body88, the evidence was pretty apparent considering the weight of the punishment.


Fuck the Patriots.

danielson

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Re: Goodell lays the smack down on the Pats!
« Reply #123 on: September 13, 2007, 06:21:29 PM »
Body88, the evidence was pretty apparent considering the weight of the punishment.


Fuck the Patriots.

Belichick admitted it. I think he should be fired. Think of all the people who bet on the games, play fantasy football etc. Belichick fucked a lot of people with his cheating.
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UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #124 on: September 13, 2007, 06:27:51 PM »
You know, I responded prematurely before I read about the punishment handed down by the NFL.


It's not so far fetched.