Author Topic: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?  (Read 1724 times)

Colossus_500

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A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« on: September 11, 2007, 08:43:36 AM »
Chertoff: We're Preparing for Nuclear Attack
Monday, September 10, 2007 11:10 PM

WASHINGTON -- Weapons of mass destruction, small boats packed with explosives and Islamic radicalization are the greatest terrorist threats facing the country, top U.S. security officials said Monday on the eve of the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The officials told Congress the country is much better prepared to face terror threats than it was then, but that terrorists' desire to attack the United States remains strong — an assertion that has yet to be fully accepted by the American public, according to a new poll.

"The enemy is not standing still. They are constantly revising their tactics and adapting their strategy and their capabilities," said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. "And if we stand still — or worse yet, if we retreat — we are going to be handing them an advantage that we dare not see them hold."

He said the threat of a USS Cole-type attack on U.S. ports — where a small boat packed with explosives detonates in a harbor — is one of his top concerns.

And while the department's goal is to keep nuclear weapons from entering the country, he said it also is focusing on how it would respond should a nuclear device get through and explode — particularly how to identify and track the nuclear materials. Chertoff also said the department is putting in place new screening regulations that would require providing information on flight crews and passengers before a private aircraft departs from overseas bound for the United States.

The radicalization of potential new terrorists, in the U.S. and abroad, is another growing concern, the intelligence officials said at the hearing on the nation's terrorism preparedness.

FBI Director Robert S. Mueller said there is already a problem with radicalization in the United States, and the Internet makes recruiting people to the radical cause much easier. He said working with state and local law enforcement and reaching out to Muslim and South Asian communities is critical to root out violent extremists in American communities.

The U.S. has disrupted several homegrown plots and has helped disrupt overseas plots, most recently last week when three Islamic terror suspects were arrested in Germany. Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell said monitoring overseas conversations was key to catching the suspected German terrorists.

He stressed the importance of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act — known as FISA — and said the country would lose half of the tools it uses to fight terrorism if lawmakers choose to roll back its powers. Congress updated the law last month, but civil liberties advocates and some leading congressional Democrats think the updated law gives the intelligence community too much surveillance power and want to revisit it to add more limits.

Despite the confidence expressed by top administration officials, fewer Americans believe the country is adequately prepared for another attack. A CBS News/New York Times poll taken Sept. 4-9 found that 39 percent of Americans think the country is sufficiently ready — down from 49 percent a year ago and 64 percent in March 2003, when the war in Iraq began.

© 2007 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 

Decker

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 08:53:16 AM »
Since the Bush administration's record in containing Al Qaeda is abysmal, I would say that Chertoff is doing the right thing raising the alarm.

He's stating the obvious conclusion.

Bush has mismanaged the war on terror to the extent that we are vulnerable to attack.

As for the recruitment of more Al Qaeda via the internet based on 'radicalization'... I'm sorry, but the illegal war in Iraq has caused AQ's ranks to swell.  That's more than enough radicalization.

And as for FISA--that law is a check on the powers of the president.  By all means, we should give Bush more power so he can bungle the war on terror to the extent that we'll never recover.

We should not enable incompetence in this country.

headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 09:07:11 AM »
No attacks since 01'. We're doing pretty good.
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Mons Venus

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 09:08:58 AM »
Bush has ruled this country using only one thing................fea r. No surprize here.

rockyfortune

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 09:12:59 AM »
No attacks since 01'. We're doing pretty good.



i don't get this argument...never have.  so we get plastered on in 2001 but we have none since then so that makes up for what happened in 2001 or shows that we've learned our lesson and have improved security?

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headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 09:22:20 AM »
But it would be better if we got attacked because it would prove Bush doesn't know what we're doing. they attacked Spain, Britain and have been foiled elsewhere. What do u what to have happen? Thats the quantifiable....no attacks so far.
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rockyfortune

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 09:34:28 AM »
But it would be better if we got attacked because it would prove Bush doesn't know what we're doing. they attacked Spain, Britain and have been foiled elsewhere. What do u what to have happen? Thats the quantifiable....no attacks so far.


how about finding the ''mastermind'' of 9/11...Osama Bin Laden...I'd like that...Or maybe some quantifiable success in Iraq...I'd like that too...Or some success in Afghanistan---From what I have been reading the poppy harvest is the biggest in years--seems pretty contradictory that we go in, free them from the taliban and then let them harvest the main ingredient of heroin, which ends up on our streets in the US...How about an acknowledgement that they blew the invasion from day one and did not have a clue as to what they were doing---i'm digressing though---you ask what i want? i want them to stop taking credit for not having any attacks since 2001 and not admitting that they dropped the ball before September 11th...if you want the credit then you need to accept the criticism.
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Decker

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 09:37:34 AM »
No attacks since 01'. We're doing pretty good.
If Bin Laden's goal was to draw the US into a middle east confrontation to undermine the area and facilitate the pooling of ideological islamic bedfellows, then "mission accomplished."

If Al Qaeda, or any terrorist group wanted to attack/had the capacity to attack the US, it could.  Considering the dozens of deadlines missed or ignored by Bush and Co. for implementing the 9/11 commission's recommendations, capturing Bin Laden, reducing (instead of increasing) Al Qaeda's ranks it's a wonder there hasn't been some sort of attack.

Dos Equis

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 11:33:06 AM »
But it would be better if we got attacked because it would prove Bush doesn't know what we're doing. they attacked Spain, Britain and have been foiled elsewhere. What do u what to have happen? Thats the quantifiable....no attacks so far.

Correct.

kh300

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 11:41:20 AM »
No attacks since 01'. We're doing pretty good.

correction.. there hasnt been a successfull attack..

headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 12:00:45 PM »

how about finding the ''mastermind'' of 9/11...Osama Bin Laden...I'd like that...Or maybe some quantifiable success in Iraq...I'd like that too...Or some success in Afghanistan---From what I have been reading the poppy harvest is the biggest in years--seems pretty contradictory that we go in, free them from the taliban and then let them harvest the main ingredient of heroin, which ends up on our streets in the US...How about an acknowledgement that they blew the invasion from day one and did not have a clue as to what they were doing---i'm digressing though---you ask what i want? i want them to stop taking credit for not having any attacks since 2001 and not admitting that they dropped the ball before September 11th...if you want the credit then you need to accept the criticism.



I hope I get it all lets see.....Bin Laden..Got it wish we had him, can't argue with that. Iraq..as of now we are having sucesses...entire provinces turning over to the US side. Considering that the threat is asymetrical and today's enemies are tommorrows friends..its a success. The war has never been pitched correctly. Bush is..well he's an idiot and even he can't explain how friggen complicated this is. American's have no clue about warefare...military history, tactics etc. Nor would I expect them to. This ain't Normandy....see the enemy...get some boats...kill the enemy. Bush has not even tried to explain how complicated this is. The pundits and former generals on the networks don't help. Only Ralph Peters even tries...ok next point. Afghanistan...we don't burn poppy fields...we roll up drug rings. This I can talk about at length. The farmers need to feed themsleves..if they can't they pick up their AK's. One problem at a time. Stop being a quick fix American..there are no quick fixes. Even Bush has grasped and tried to communicate this point.

I wish all you guys were here. They're holding a conference on Non-State actors and how to deal witn them etc. Alot of smart people...Barry McCaffery...Ralh Peters
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rockyfortune

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 12:22:03 PM »

I hope I get it all lets see.....Bin Laden..Got it wish we had him, can't argue with that. Iraq..as of now we are having sucesses...entire provinces turning over to the US side. Considering that the threat is asymetrical and today's enemies are tommorrows friends..its a success. The war has never been pitched correctly. Bush is..well he's an idiot and even he can't explain how friggen complicated this is. American's have no clue about warefare...military history, tactics etc. Nor would I expect them to. This ain't Normandy....see the enemy...get some boats...kill the enemy. Bush has not even tried to explain how complicated this is. The pundits and former generals on the networks don't help. Only Ralph Peters even tries...ok next point. Afghanistan...we don't burn poppy fields...we roll up drug rings. This I can talk about at length. The farmers need to feed themsleves..if they can't they pick up their AK's. One problem at a time. Stop being a quick fix American..there are no quick fixes. Even Bush has grasped and tried to communicate this point.

I wish all you guys were here. They're holding a conference on Non-State actors and how to deal witn them etc. Alot of smart people...Barry McCaffery...Ralh Peters


how is watching six years of war and seeing minimal successes a quick fix american?
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headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 12:44:30 PM »
This is not WW2...if you understood the nature of this war better, or more correctly, they pitched this war as the pain in the ass it is, then maybe folks would have more patience. It's not Hollywood..its not easy and the benchmarks aren't clear. Look how fast we rolled up Saddam....easy to quantify..easy to get a news story out of. Guys getting blow up by IEDs isn't a great story. Its hard to explain why they got blown up etc. I get it....the media doesn't really grasp what we're doing nor do they even try. The Brits lost 45,000 guys at the Battle of the Somme, in an afternoon. We're doing better then that, but its a different war and its going to be there every day for a very long time. You don't have to agree with this war..nor will anything i post change your mind..i would have u read real books about whats going on...read some military history...Brits in Malasia in the 50's. Some Vietnam....read stuff on asymetrical warfare/4th generation warfare....after your head hurts because of all the different theories, get back to me. I understand the politics....I understand the frustration..I'd prefer not to go back for number 3 but i might have to.
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rockyfortune

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 07:08:22 PM »
i have a masters in history..i don't need to read any more military history...they pitched this as a we invade iraq, they treat us as liberators, we set their government up and then we come home..that's how the bush admin portrayed this war...

i never said it was ww2...you compare this war to ww1 yet world war one was finished in 4 years with every country just as war weary as the next guy...you can't just sit there and say, well, this war is going to last 30 years because no nation would tolerate such nonsense--war, without end is idiocy..war without a plan to end it, like this bush admin. planned, is even bigger idiocy...

the war on terror started out as a war to get the people who brought about 9/11, then it went to saddam, yellow cake, weapons of mass destruction, iraqi freedom from tyranny and oppression...can they at least stick to one or two pertinent goals before blowing more smoke up the publics ass?  or will they continue to form policy on the fly and hope they get the f**k out of dodge before the mess hits the fan again? 

i don't need to read any more history books, books on tactics, or field manuals..i did my time in the service reading that stuff..reading that will not make me understand how the greatest power in the world ended up in such mess for the second time in 50 years...how an administration can spin what is going on in this war without busting out laughing right in the face of the press corps covering it...you yourself even said bush was ''Bush is..well he's an idiot and even he can't explain how friggen complicated this is.''--so here is the commander in chief of the united states who you state is an idiot--leading us in a war without end---kind of ironic that the guy who started this war you are defending you call an idiot.
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headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2007, 07:36:56 AM »
I'm nor defending Bush...my point and my only point is, while the Dems whine and cry about the war and the troops (all bullshit to consoldate power and votes) we can't afford to loose this war. At some point we will and need to pull out. We won't be fighting Iraq style wars for thirty years. But we will be going after Terror groups before they are capable of launching 911 style attacks. The war on terror label is or has been mislabled. Once Iraq is over, the war will alomost be like the cold war witrh occasional flare ups with US troops hitting terror targets while preparing for the next conventionla fight. I don't know when you were in the service but if it was pre 911, everything you knew has changed. I'd be the last guy to have u read doctrine anyway..it changes every 6 months anyway. Bush will be gone in 2 years, but even with a Dem in power, we can't or won't change hopw we are currently doing business.
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Decker

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2007, 07:52:23 AM »
I'm nor defending Bush...my point and my only point is, while the Dems whine and cry about the war and the troops (all bullshit to consoldate power and votes) we can't afford to loose this war. At some point we will and need to pull out. We won't be fighting Iraq style wars for thirty years. But we will be going after Terror groups before they are capable of launching 911 style attacks. The war on terror label is or has been mislabled. Once Iraq is over, the war will alomost be like the cold war witrh occasional flare ups with US troops hitting terror targets while preparing for the next conventionla fight. I don't know when you were in the service but if it was pre 911, everything you knew has changed. I'd be the last guy to have u read doctrine anyway..it changes every 6 months anyway. Bush will be gone in 2 years, but even with a Dem in power, we can't or won't change hopw we are currently doing business.
There is so much going against the mere possiblity of "winning" this war that the US really is just wasting its time in Iraq. 

How does the US win the Iraq war?

If withdrawal is equated with losing the war in Iraq, then so what?  The ranks of Al Qaeda have swelled b/c of the Iraq war.

Did Germany have to invade and occupy Turkey to foil that terrorist plot to bomb US bases in Germany?  No.  Germany used good police work.  http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070905/twl-uk-security-germany-suspects-bd5ae06_1.html
Germany foils "massive" bomb plot

I don't think the future of battling terrorism will be a military function.  It's too costly in terms of dollars and manpower and it creates more problems than it solves.

headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2007, 08:01:47 AM »
Yeah but at some point u will have to go after the training camps..the bomb factories and the masterminds and that cannot be accomplished with police work..it can be used to stop folks domestically but not abroad. Iraq is not indicative of how this war will be fought. Winning means Iraq can stand on its own two feet. I would hope that can be accomplished withing 2 years.
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Hedgehog

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2007, 08:09:49 AM »
Yeah but at some point u will have to go after the training camps..the bomb factories and the masterminds and that cannot be accomplished with police work..it can be used to stop folks domestically but not abroad. Iraq is not indicative of how this war will be fought. Winning means Iraq can stand on its own two feet. I would hope that can be accomplished withing 2 years.

Going after the training camps?

You need to stop people from going to training camps. That's the only solution.

We shouldn't help the terrorists recruit by stealing natural resources from sovereign countries, don't give them that.

If the Arabic community sees the Western World as just, there is little incitement to support terrorism.

That has to be the first step.

Whatever we do, we have to remember that we're the righteous. We don't send off people to torture in Egypt or Marocco.

As long as shit like that happens, terrorists won't have any problem recruiting.

I want an end to Islam.

But there will be no end of Islam as long as Muslims are treated unfair, having their communities savaged.

As empty as paradise

Colossus_500

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2007, 08:33:33 AM »
I want an end to Islam.

But there will be no end of Islam as long as Muslims are treated unfair, having their communities savaged.
Hedge, how do you go about putting an end to Islam?

headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2007, 09:06:49 AM »
I agree somewhat..we need to tighten up our foreign policy..its gotta be more consistant. We need to figure out the Palistinian thing. We need to lay outa plan for statehood with incentives for both the rags and Israel and work with some of the folks in the region to get the job done. i don't think we can get anywhere with Iran. i think Syria will fall in line if Iran is no longer the regional big dog. Apparently Israel bombed syrian nuke site last week. I love their balls.
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Hedgehog

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2007, 09:23:22 AM »
Hedge, how do you go about putting an end to Islam?

The way I see it, Islam and Democracy are two entities that cannot exist together.

So we have to support Democracy wherever Islamism (the political form of Islam) is getting stronger.

Islam as a religion will cease to exist in a world where women's rights, civil rights and democracy are strong.

Because all three categories goes against Islam on several issues.

If we raise the general democratic conscience, and the general conscience for women's rights, Islam will have a very hard time ahead.

The reason is because the holy book of Islam isn't supposed to be interpreted. It is the direct words of Allah.

Not like the Bible, with a bunch of writings by lots of different people, collected over the years, and then decided at church meetings that some of them were gonna be included in the Bible.


The Western World, where the Democracy is the strongest, needs to open up to countries like Iran et al, use diplomacy and tie economical bounds. That way the globalization will help the democracy spread throughout these parts of the world.
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headhuntersix

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2007, 09:30:47 AM »
An approach....not bad one. Its a streamlined approach that Bush is trying to use. His is much more mangled. Women's rights really really pisses these guys off...Not bad hedge.
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Decker

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Re: A Conspiracy to Scare Americans, Yes?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2007, 10:46:13 AM »
An approach....not bad one. Its a streamlined approach that Bush is trying to use. His is much more mangled. Women's rights really really pisses these guys off...Not bad hedge.
I agree.  Hedge, great job.