Author Topic: How many non-religious-affiliated universities teach "creation science"? (Read 3662 times)

columbusdude82 · « **on:** September 15, 2007, 10:18:13 AM »

Well, it's a self-explanatory question. Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates keep complaining about how their "science" is not taken seriously, and how they have excellent evidence for it. It seems to me that the only educational institutions that teach that stuff are the likes of Bob Jones U and Liberty U.

How many non-religious-affiliated universities teach creation science or intelligent design? Is there a Harvard University Department of Creationism? What about a Stanford Institute for Biblical Physics and Biology?

If anyone knows any, I would be curious to learn about them.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2007, 01:51:14 PM »

I am still waiting...

Ahem Ahem *loco* Ahem Ahem

loco · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2007, 08:48:23 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 16, 2007, 01:51:14 PM

I am still waiting...

Ahem Ahem *loco* Ahem Ahem

Why do you ask me directly? I don't know, columbusdude82. I am not an American, but I'll tell you what. I'll do some research on my spare time and I'll tell ya what I can find. Okay?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2007, 05:14:48 AM »

The institutions don't have to be in the USA. Maybe in Europe? In China?

In fact, I'd be very impressed with creationism if you could find a universities in China and India that had discovered it independently, in cultures that are not markedly Christian.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2007, 05:36:28 AM »

FWIW, I think any university, teaching religiously based science, be it Islamic, Christian, Judaic, Hindui, et al, is BS.

Universities needs to stick to science, they represent the secular society, and the reason.

Lots of religious people accept this, and will even work within such institutions.

Without ever mixing their personal religious beliefs with the science and research done at work.

But then there are those who are determined on fighting science, fighting the truth.

These are the enemies of our future. And they prevail in many religions.

loco · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2007, 05:51:43 AM »

A doubt I'll find a secular university that teaches creationism. I'm okay with that. Belief that there is a God and that He created everything is a matter of faith.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2007, 06:03:24 AM »

Quote from: loco on September 17, 2007, 05:51:43 AM

A doubt I'll find a secular university that teaches creationism. I'm okay with that. Belief that there is a God and that He created everything is a matter of faith.

So you are saying that "creation science" is no science at all?

Belief in God is a matter of faith, yes.

But creationism makes falsifiable, verifiable claims about the physical world. There is no element of faith in that. These are ideas that can be tested against the evidence. Surely, if they were true, research scientists would have uncovered them.

loco · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2007, 06:24:31 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 06:03:24 AM

So you are saying that "creation science" is no science at all?

Belief in God is a matter of faith, yes.

But creationism makes falsifiable, verifiable claims about the physical world. There is no element of faith in that. These are ideas that can be tested against the evidence. Surely, if they were true, research scientists would have uncovered them.

No, I'm saying that belief in God is a matter of faith.

As for the rest of your post, I don't know. I'll have to read up on "creation science".

What is a "creationist" anyway? I believe, as many Christian, brilliant scientists believe, that there is a God who created everything. Does that make me a creationist? Or do I have to believe in a young earth to be labeled a creationist? I don't know whether the earth is old or young. When you have scientists telling us that soft tissue cannot possibly survive more than a few thousand years, and at the same time telling us that dinosaur fossils are 65+ million years old, then we find dinosaur fossils with soft tissue, all we can say is that we don't know. Dating methods are not 100% accurate, so we don't know. At least not yet.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2007, 06:48:09 AM »

You really like that bit about the dinosaur flesh don't you?

It is worth noting that the MSNBC article said NOTHING about "young earth" theories. It is only that crackpot site "Answers in Genesis" that came up with that.

loco · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:03:37 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 06:48:09 AM

You really like that bit about the dinosaur flesh don't you?

It is worth noting that the MSNBC article said NOTHING about "young earth" theories. It is only that crackpot site "Answers in Genesis" that came up with that.

Do I really like it? Do you really dislike it? Does it bother you?

It is not that I like or dislike it since I am not a "creationist". It is just that a discovery like this shows me that the current evidence for a very old earth is not infallible, and that dating methods are not 100% reliable. The earth maybe very old, but I wouldn't go mocking and ridiculing creationists since we just don't know for sure at this time.

And I actually read the details, not on MSNBC, but on a secular website which trashes "Answers in Genesis".

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:05:35 AM »

Fine then, name one university that teaches anything other than "very old earth".

loco · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:17:17 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 07:05:35 AM

Fine then, name one university that teaches anything other than "very old earth".

Why? What point are you trying to make? Is that your response to what I just posted?

I doubt I'll find one..today, but we have yet to see what this new dinosaur soft tissue will bring in the future. Things change. If scientists simply conclude that soft tissue can now be preserved for 65+ millions of years, then they'll have to admit that the evidence for believing otherwise all this time was wrong, and explain why it was wrong. And if this evidence is unreliable, how reliable is any other evidence? Or maybe, more evidence will surface to support a young earth. Who knows?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:35:53 AM »

In other words, you admit that no reputable scientists or research institutions or academic departments in universities support or endorse your point of view.

Right?

loco · « **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2007, 07:47:37 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 07:35:53 AM

In other words, you admit that no reputable scientists or research institutions or academic departments in universities support or endorse your point of view.

Right?

Wrong. What is my "point of view" anyway? I just said we don't know. Again, what is your response to my posts above? Does not finding a single secular university that teaches "young earth" prove anything? Does that mean that no evidence that contradicts "old earth" will ever be found? Can you make such a prediction with certainty? Does not finding a secular university that teaches "young earth" prove that soft tissue can survive for 65+ million years?

What is your point of view?

Dos Equis · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2007, 11:23:18 AM »

I have no idea whether any schools teach "creation science" (whatever that is), but imagine all the religion indoctrinated dummies coming out of these programs:

http://www.hds.harvard.edu/

http://www.yale.edu/divinity/

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 17, 2007, 12:08:28 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on September 17, 2007, 11:23:18 AM

I have no idea whether any schools teach "creation science" (whatever that is), but imagine all the religion indoctrinated dummies coming out of these programs:

http://www.hds.harvard.edu/

http://www.yale.edu/divinity/

Harvard and Yale teach young earth theories? They teach that man and dinosaur lived together? That's news to me.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2007, 01:03:04 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 12:08:28 PM

Harvard and Yale teach young earth theories? They teach that man and dinosaur lived together? That's news to me.

I have no idea.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2007, 01:12:33 PM »

I am referring to theology programs, BeachBum. I am referring to schools that teach Biblical creation stories as science in science class, and that do research that confirms these stories.

Surely, if the Bible creation myth were true, scientists would have turned up evidence for it???

Dos Equis · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2007, 01:19:35 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 01:12:33 PM

I am referring to theology programs, BeachBum. I am referring to schools that teach Biblical creation stories as science in science class, and that do research that confirms these stories.

Surely, if the Bible creation myth were true, scientists would have turned up evidence for it???

"I have no idea whether any schools teach 'creation science' (whatever that is) . . . ."

I was referring to all of the dummies with PhDs who teach religion at Harvard and Yale and all those fools who learn about it. I wonder how many of them believe in God?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2007, 02:09:08 PM »

Not as many as you think, but that is a topic for another thread.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2007, 03:14:46 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 15, 2007, 10:18:13 AM

Well, it's a self-explanatory question. Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates keep complaining about how their "science" is not taken seriously, and how they have excellent evidence for it. It seems to me that the only educational institutions that teach that stuff are the likes of Bob Jones U and Liberty U.

How many non-religious-affiliated universities teach creation science or intelligent design? Is there a Harvard University Department of Creationism? What about a Stanford Institute for Biblical Physics and Biology?

If anyone knows any, I would be curious to learn about them.

BUMP

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:35:21 PM »

My challenge still stands.

How many real research universities teach or do research in: old-earth or young-earth creationism, intelligent design, so-called "flood geology," etc?

Deicide · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:42:30 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on November 26, 2007, 05:35:21 PM

My challenge still stands.

How many real research universities teach or do research in: old-earth or young-earth creationism, intelligent design, so-called "flood geology," etc?

You are very America centred; you should mention European instituions of higher learning as well.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2007, 10:35:54 AM »

Quote from: Trapezkerl on November 26, 2007, 05:42:30 PM

You are very America centred; you should mention European instituions of higher learning as well.

If you look up, I did.

Quote from: columbusdude82 on September 17, 2007, 05:14:48 AM

The institutions don't have to be in the USA. Maybe in Europe? In China?

In fact, I'd be very impressed with creationism if you could find a universities in China and India that had discovered it independently, in cultures that are not markedly Christian.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2008, 06:44:57 AM »

My challenge remains unanswered, four months on.

Let me issue another challenge to those who think we should teach creationism (of any form) in science class:

Find publications in peer-reviewed scientific journals that support (your brand of) creationism.