Something to think about

[Colossus_500]

This kind of puts things in perspective, historically speaking....

[headhuntersix]

Good one bro....flame on libs.

[Dos Equis]

This kind of puts things in perspective, historically speaking....

Nice find.

[ieffinhatecardio]

"Paid for by the Twas Time To Move On Political Society"

LOL

[Decker]

That's showing them libs.

Except for the fact that Nazi Germany declared war on the US.

When did Iraq declare war on the US again?

Anyone?

[Colossus_500]

That's showing them libs.

Except for the fact that Nazi Germany declared war on the US.

When did Iraq declare war on the US again?

Anyone?

It's not about the "liberals", Deck.  lol  It's more about looking at the whole picture, and looking at history to maybe learn some lessons.

Hadn't Suddam Hussein been threatening to do something "stupid" for quite some time?  Didn't we even order air attacks from President Clinton? 

Need more?

[Decker]

It's not about the "liberals", Deck.  lol  It's more about looking at the whole picture, and looking at history to maybe learn some lessons.

Hadn't Suddam Hussein been threatening to do something "stupid" for quite some time?  Didn't we even order air attacks from President Clinton? 

Need more?

I know, I was funning HH.  That's my point.  Comparing Iraq to WWII is for people not familiar with WWII.  There is no apt comparison, only partisan blather.

I.e., WWII is not comparable to Iraq...except for how much is being spent dollarwise.

[kh300]

are we technically at war with iraq? or or we at war with terrorists that happen to be in iraq? i dont recall anyone declaring war with this country

[ieffinhatecardio]

are we technically at war with iraq? or or we at war with terrorists that happen to be in iraq? i dont recall anyone declaring war with this country

Uh yeah, remember that guy named Hussein that we ousted, he was the leader of Iraq wasn't he? Remember that army that we fought at the beginning of the Iraq War, those were Iraqi soldiers weren't they?

[gcb]

If you want to take lessons from history why don't you look at the Cold War. Wasn't it some idiots back in the 60s that wanted to start a nuclear war (because we all know "it's better to be dead than red"). 

[Decker]

are we technically at war with iraq? or or we at war with terrorists that happen to be in iraq? i dont recall anyone declaring war with this country

Congress never declared war on Iraq.

The president used force against Iraq under the War Powers Act.  The WPA, in my opinion, is an unconstitutional piece of legislation that allows the president to wage war without Congressional consent.  The pres. does have a time limit and must report to Congress though to prolong the use of force. 

[Decker]

Here's another thing to think about that puts things into perspective historically:

Colin Powell's WMD speech to the UN in 2003


We have firsthand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails.
The trucks and train cars are easily moved and are designed to evade detection by inspectors.
The source was an eye witness, an Iraqi chemical engineer who supervised one of these facilities.

Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets....Saddam Hussein has chemical weapons.

In truth, Saddam Hussein had a massive clandestine nuclear weapons program that covered several different techniques to enrich uranium, including electromagnetic isotope separation, gas centrifuge, and gas diffusion

He is so determined that he has made repeated covert attempts to acquire high-specification aluminum tubes from 11 different countries, even after inspections resumed.

Iraq could use these small UAVs which have a wingspan of only a few meters to deliver biological agents to its neighbors or if transported, to other countries, including the United States. (Re umanned drone planes)

But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network...


Ladies and gentlemen, these are not assertions. These are facts, corroborated by many sources, some of them sources of the intelligence services of other countries.

All mischaracterizations and lies, what a disgrace this man is
________________________ ________________________ _______
Petraeus's report to Congress re the Surge on 9/7/07


"The security situation in Iraq is improving..."

"I believe that we will be able to reduce our forces to the pre-surge level of brigade combat teams by next summer without jeopardizing the security gains that we have fought so hard to achieve..."

SEN WARNER: Does that (THE SURGE) make America safer?

GEN. PETRAEUS: Sir, I don't know actually. I have not sat down and sorted out in my own mind.
________________________ ________________________ _______________________

Bush fires Generals Garner, Shinseki, Casey, and Abizaid before settling on Petraeus the yes man.  Why?  They had opinions counter to the Bush mantra of 'progress and stay the course' in Iraq.

I guess history does have lessons for us.  Too bad we haven't learned a thing about trusting Bush and his henchmen.

[Dos Equis]

Colin Powell is a great American.  He should be president. 

[Decker]

Colin Powell is a great American.  He should be president. 

Why is he great?

[Dos Equis]

Why is he great?

You should read his auto My American Journey.  He rose from humble beginnings to become the highest ranking military man in the country.  Did a phenomenal job as Chair of the Joint Chiefs.  Had a terrific game plan for Desert Storm.  Served two presidents.  Was Secretary of State.  He's smart.  A patriot.  A man of integrity.  No one in the country is more qualified to be president IMO.   

[Decker]

You should read his auto My American Journey.  He rose from humble beginnings to become the highest ranking military man in the country.  Did a phenomenal job as Chair of the Joint Chiefs.  Had a terrific game plan for Desert Storm.  Served two presidents.  Was Secretary of State.  He's smart.  A patriot.  A man of integrity.  No one in the country is more qualified to be president IMO.   

There is two sides to every coin.  In my opinion, he chose the career path that made him a tool of his political bosses.

Powell was accused of trying to bury the Mai Lai Massacre in Viet Nam.  He understated the US atrocities in his official report to make the incident appear to be no big deal. 

Years later he gave a report to the UN on the meteoric threat presented by a tiny shithole country called Iraq.  Largely b/c of the evidence he presented, the US and a coalition of the wretched went to war with Iraq.

"Powell told the committee that over the past year he had found "that some of the sourcing that was used to give me the basis upon which to bring forward that judgment to the United Nations were flawed, were wrong." Moreover, he said the sources "had not been vetted widely enough across the intelligence community," and said he was "distressed" because some in the community "had knowledge that the sourcing was suspect and that was not known to me."" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18890-2004Sep13.html

So he was gung ho for war--the leading authority in the US gov. on the Iraq WMD capabilities--and he was kept in the dark about any countervailing opinions or evidence that WMDs were not in Iraq?  I don't believe him.
________________________ ___________
Serving one's country is honorable and noble.  But Powell has displayed a penchant for career advancement over that which is honorable or noble.

He is an accomplished man.  I would not characterize him as great.

[Dos Equis]

There is two sides to every coin.  In my opinion, he chose the career path that made him a tool of his political bosses.

Powell was accused of trying to bury the Mai Lai Massacre in Viet Nam.  He understated the US atrocities in his official report to make the incident appear to be no big deal. 

Years later he gave a report to the UN on the meteoric threat presented by a tiny shithole country called Iraq.  Largely b/c of the evidence he presented, the US and a coalition of the wretched went to war with Iraq.

"Powell told the committee that over the past year he had found "that some of the sourcing that was used to give me the basis upon which to bring forward that judgment to the United Nations were flawed, were wrong." Moreover, he said the sources "had not been vetted widely enough across the intelligence community," and said he was "distressed" because some in the community "had knowledge that the sourcing was suspect and that was not known to me."" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18890-2004Sep13.html

So he was gung ho for war--the leading authority in the US gov. on the Iraq WMD capabilities--and he was kept in the dark about any countervailing opinions or evidence that WMDs were not in Iraq?  I don't believe him.
________________________ ___________
Serving one's country is honorable and noble.  But Powell has displayed a penchant for career advancement over that which is honorable or noble.

He is an accomplished man.  I would not characterize him as great.

You don't understand Decker.  Only great men get space on my office shelf:  Colin Powell, Sam Walton, Lee Iacocca, Arthur Ashe, Nelson Mandela, C. Everett Koop, etc.  (Bork is there too, but he isn't great.  I made an exception for him.)   

I don't think Powell chose his career path.  He simply rose through the ranks because he was gifted, smart, a man of integrity, and had a tremendous work ethic.  The fact he became not only a 4 star general, but Chair of the Joint Chiefs without going to West Point is remarkable. 

He didn't apply for the jobs of National Security Advisor or Secretary of State.  Presidents asked him to serve. 

Allegations about him don't phase me.  What prominent figure hasn't been accused of something?  I doubt he rises to the top of the armed forces food chain if he was committing crimes in the Army. 

I would vote for him over any candidate in the race.  Too bad he'll never run. 

[Stark]

You don't understand Decker.  Only great men get space on my office shelf:  Colin Powell, Sam Walton, Lee Iacocca, Arthur Ashe, Nelson Mandela, C. Everett Koop, etc.  (Bork is there too, but he isn't great.  I made an exception for him.)   

I don't think Powell chose his career path.  He simply rose through the ranks because he was gifted, smart, a man of integrity, and had a tremendous work ethic.  The fact he became not only a 4 star general, but Chair of the Joint Chiefs without going to West Point is remarkable. 

He didn't apply for the jobs of National Security Advisor or Secretary of State.  Presidents asked him to serve. 

Allegations about him don't phase me.  What prominent figure hasn't been accused of something?  I doubt he rises to the top of the armed forces food chain if he was committing crimes in the Army. 

I would vote for him over any candidate in the race.  Too bad he'll never run. 

My friend all these people got that far only because they knew what ass to kiss to get what they wanted.

[Dos Equis]

My friend all these people got that far only because they knew what ass to kiss to get what they wanted.

Ah . . . no.  Kissing butts does not get you to the rank of general or Chair of the Joint Chiefs.   

[Stark]

Ah . . . no.  Kissing butts does not get you to the rank of general or Chair of the Joint Chiefs.   

oh come on BB that is a ridicules post, you KNOW that a certain amount of asskissing is required to get anywere in an Officer career.
Have you served? I have in the German Army and Officers in any Army can not be trused under no circumstance.

[headhuntersix]

I don't kiss anybodies ass and i should make LTC. But u have a point. There isa difference between outright ass kissing and biting ur tongue. Powell did alot of that.

[Dos Equis]

oh come on BB that is a ridicules post, you KNOW that a certain amount of asskissing is required to get anywere in an Officer career.
Have you served? I have in the German Army and Officers in any Army can not be trused under no circumstance.

Yes I served. 

There are too many people involved with promotions high up the chain.  Too many butts to kiss.  We're talking all of the commanders in your division, everyone on the boards in a separate location who decide promotions, and senators and the president when you make general. 

I know nothing about the German Army, so I'll defer to you on the brown nosing over there.   

[Dos Equis]

I don't kiss anybodies ass and i should make LTC. But u have a point. There isa difference between outright ass kissing and biting ur tongue. Powell did alot of that.

Don't you have to go before a board in Virginia?  DC?  I forget?

[Decker]

You don't understand Decker.  Only great men get space on my office shelf:  Colin Powell, Sam Walton, Lee Iacocca, Arthur Ashe, Nelson Mandela, C. Everett Koop, etc.  (Bork is there too, but he isn't great.  I made an exception for him.)   

I don't think Powell chose his career path.  He simply rose through the ranks because he was gifted, smart, a man of integrity, and had a tremendous work ethic.  The fact he became not only a 4 star general, but Chair of the Joint Chiefs without going to West Point is remarkable. 

He didn't apply for the jobs of National Security Advisor or Secretary of State.  Presidents asked him to serve. 

Allegations about him don't phase me.  What prominent figure hasn't been accused of something?  I doubt he rises to the top of the armed forces food chain if he was committing crimes in the Army. 

I would vote for him over any candidate in the race.  Too bad he'll never run. 

Great list, Plutarch.

I noticed that the two choices in his career--Mai Lai and Iraq--show that he was a team player instead of a great military man.  

Especially Iraq.  Like I said, I don't believe him when he claims that he was in the dark about countervailing evidence of Iraq's WMDs.  He's a smart and experienced guy.  I think he knew.  I think he followed the orders of his boss to sell the Iraq invasion to the world.

That is not noble or great.  That is unforgivable.  

[Colossus_500]

Great list, Plutarch.

I noticed that the two choices in his career--Mai Lai and Iraq--show that he was a team player instead of a great military man.  

Especially Iraq.  Like I said, I don't believe him when he claims that he was in the dark about countervailing evidence of Iraq's WMDs.  He's a smart and experienced guy.  I think he knew.  I think he followed the orders of his boss to sell the Iraq invasion to the world.

That is not noble or great.  That is unforgivable.