IQ: HEREDITY OR ENVIRONMENT ?????????????

[~flower~]

Skeels and Dye:

1930's, common sense back then was considered you were born with it or not.

They took 13 babies from an orphanage.  Back then orphanages basically just cared for the physical needs of the babies,  stimulation and personal contact was very limited.    The took 13 babies that were considered unadaptable because they were obviously mentally retarded and placed them in an institution for the mentally retarded.  The women their interacted with the babies and in a sense adopted them.  The ages of the caregivers ranged from 18-50, with mental ages of 5-12.  Each child grew attached to a particular person in the 19 months they were there.   12 infants were left as a "control" at the orphanage, they were also retarded but they were of higher intelligence.  The rec'd the "usual" orphanage care.

  2-1/2 years later they tested the children's intelligence.  The children placed with the retarded women gained an average of 28 IQ points, the control group LOST 30 points. 

 a followup study done 21 years later:  the control group averaged less than a 3rd grade education. 4 still were institutionalized, the rest had low level jobs. Only 2 had married. The 13 in the experimental group had a 12 year level of education average, 5 had completed 1 or more years of college, 1 had went to graduate school.  11 had married, and all 13 were self supporting or homemakers.

  Environment can certainly play a role in intelligence. 

[haider]

Q: Was, or was not, my reponce a reponce to your ad hominem attack on Camel?

You never argued the points that Camel brought up, rather you went all ad hominem on his arse.

How's the starving yourself for the devil going?

go look up the definition of ad hominem before you start ranting about it, it will serve you good. My original contention was that it was an ad hominem fallacy on HIS part, I don't believe he brought up any points at all for me to argue against.

Maybe you guys should partake in some self-examination before you come over here and attack/argue with other people. Conquer your own biases and prejudices before you point them out for others (my prejudices being irrelevant in my case in this instance).

Ramadan is ok, I could certainly be doing better things than defending myself against two pagans  Thanks for asking.

[Get Rowdy]

Skeels and Dye:

1930's, common sense back then was considered you were born with it or not.

They took 13 babies from an orphanage.  Back then orphanages basically just cared for the physical needs of the babies,  stimulation and personal contact was very limited.    The took 13 babies that were considered unadaptable because they were obviously mentally retarded and placed them in an institution for the mentally retarded.  The women their interacted with the babies and in a sense adopted them.  The ages of the caregivers ranged from 18-50, with mental ages of 5-12.  Each child grew attached to a particular person in the 19 months they were there.   12 infants were left as a "control" at the orphanage, they were also retarded but they were of higher intelligence.  The rec'd the "usual" orphanage care.

  2-1/2 years later they tested the children's intelligence.  The children placed with the retarded women gained an average of 28 IQ points, the control group LOST 30 points. 

 a followup study done 21 years later:  the control group averaged less than a 3rd grade education. 4 still were institutionalized, the rest had low level jobs. Only 2 had married. The 13 in the experimental group had a 12 year level of education average, 5 had completed 1 or more years of college, 1 had went to graduate school.  11 had married, and all 13 were self supporting or homemakers.

  Environment can certainly play a role in intelligence. 

This has to do with the "critical age" for language/learning I believe.  If a child lacks stimulation and interaction with people their language skills will not fully develop once they pass a certain age.  This can be seen with studies with monkeys, ones that were isolated from birth to a certain age could not assimilate properly back into the community.  Also, there was a girl a while back who's father was crazy and he chained her in a basement till she was 13, then authorities found out and got her out.  Since she had passed the critical age for language/learning she could never fully master language skills.

[trab]

Scientists like Richard Lynn, Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein believed that heredity (read race) played a greater role than environment in determining IQ . . .

apparently, some races were created more equal than others.

what do the denizens of the general board think.

try to refrain from using anecdotal evidence (for instance, my best friend is black and he is very well-spoken).

youandme, no one is interested in what you have to say, so don't bother. 

Lots depends on what is "Intelligent".
There are PPl not very educated that are brilliant.
Surviving much  better than average with what limited resources  bestowed on you is true intelligence in my book.

Ive known many intellectuals that wouldn't make it out alive of west valley SLC on any given Friday at midnight.

It all depends on what is relevant, and also ability to addapt to what is truly relavant.

They can stick those intell tests straight up their ass.
I know my share of quite wealthy dummies.

Would you rather be highly intelligent or secure & satisfied w/ your life?
Being OVERducated is not corelated w/ greater wealth or satisfaction.
A PHD is a poor investment from a monetary cost:reward basis.

[Camel Jockey]

wow, just wow dude, this is a new low for you. Very disappointing that you would even bring my "background" into the argument. It has no relevance, and as such proves your naivete about the issue, or your biases. Grow up dude.

What of the stats for blacks? Explain with citation and references, you fucking pundu fuck.

And don't come back with "bengalis are small," retorts as I've shown that I am the alpha sand n egro of this forum far and away. Natural to boot.

[haider]

What of the stats for blacks? Explain with citation and references, you fucking pundu fuck.

And don't come back with "bengalis are small," retorts as I've shown that I am the alpha sand n egro of this forum far and away. Natural to boot.

FISHMONGER MELTDOWN!!!!

hahaha, calm down nuggah I'm not toxy, and all paki's are not created equal. Calm down the hostility and the drunkenness the bit, then we can talk.

[Nordic Superman]

go look up the definition of ad hominem before you start ranting about it, it will serve you good. My original contention was that it was an ad hominem fallacy on HIS part, I don't believe he brought up any points at all for me to argue against.

Maybe you guys should partake in some self-examination before you come over here and attack/argue with other people. Conquer your own biases and prejudices before you point them out for others (my prejudices being irrelevant in my case in this instance).

Ramadan is ok, I could certainly be doing better things than defending myself against two pagans  Thanks for asking.

I can't see his post as being ad hominem, especially in light of your replies.

Pagans?

Haha, ok moon god.

[ToxicAvenger]

I can't see his post as being ad hominem, especially in light of your replies.

Pagans?

Haha, ok moon god.

have you noticed that nordic considers himself to be right and everyone else on all topics to be wrong..

 


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=GRE+tunneling

here nordie dumbie since i know for a fact you dont know what a GRE tunnel is or how to create one  here is a little help...maybe i should del your account..how abouts i change yer name to nordicbitch?  i doubt ron would take kindly to that but man that be fun!

[Nordic Superman]

have you noticed that nordic considers himself to be right and everyone else on all topics to be wrong..

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=GRE+tunneling

here nordie dumbie since i know for a fact you dont know what a GRE tunnel is or how to create one  here is a little help...maybe i should del your account..how abouts i change yer name to nordicbitch?  i doubt ron would take kindly to that but man that be fun!

Told u GRE wouldn't provide you with access to the server for one.

Not only that, let's say you gain root access or and high priveledge account, then you have to access the MySQL database, which in itself is password protected.

YOU = TOOL OF GETBIG

[haider]

FISHMONGER MELTDOWN!!!!

hahaha, calm down nuggah I'm not toxy, and all paki's are not created equal. Calm down the hostility and the drunkenness the bit, then we can talk.

Still waiting for u to get undrunk, mochli.

[ToxicAvenger]

Told u GRE wouldn't provide you with access to the server for one.

Not only that, let's say you gain root access or and high priveledge account, then you have to access the MySQL database, which in itself is password protected.

YOU = TOOL OF GETBIG

done it just cause yuou dont know how..dont mean i dont 

[Nordic Superman]

done it just cause yuou dont know how..dont mean i dont 

[ToxicAvenger]

ooo pooh oo paah.swing n a miss!

[Nordic Superman]

Swing and miss eh?

Biggest tool on getbig.

Delete my account. Oh shit, you can't!

[haider]

Swing and miss eh?

Biggest tool on getbig.

Delete my account. Oh shit, you can't!

[suckmymuscle]

  I.Q is paramount for understanding complex activities and concepts. However, it can also make you miserable. There is some consistent statistical evidence that I.Q correlates with dystemia. It has been suggested that genes for very high I.Q(160+) might be pleiotropic with depression, by inducing certain neurochemical patterns.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[haider]

  I.Q is paramount for understanding complex activities and concepts. However, it can also make you miserable. There is some consistent statistical evidence that I.Q correlates with dystemia. It has been suggested that genes for very high I.Q(160+) might be pleiotropic with depression, by inducing certain neurochemical patterns.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have people who are inclined to think Dorian > Ronnie. Not sure if it has a genetic basis or not, but statistically consistent evidence shows this to be true.

For example, you might wanna check out this thread:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69359.0