IQ: HEREDITY OR ENVIRONMENT ?????????????

[haider]

Could anyone explain to me how some african civilizations today could be lesser developed than civilizations over 2,000 years ago?

The Romans and Greeks were doing their thing, so were the orients.. Indians created the numerical system and were also doing their thing. Near Easterners were doing their thing, and etc.. It's tedious to name everything.

How come the only decent part of africa(north) just happens to be the least black?

hahahahaha

And you're proving this has all to do with IQ exactly how? 

[Camel Jockey]

The genetic part, Haider.

That's what I'm trying to point out, not prove. I don't have that ambition.

[Al-Gebra]

we're quickly straying into the realm of anecdotal evidence now .

[Camel Jockey]

we're quickly straying into the realm of anecdotal evidence now .

Then cough up the objective observations, friend. Cite references and all while you are it too.

Subjective observations often tend to be true, when of course a general populus is in question. This cannot be said for an individual.

[Al-Gebra]

I'm waiting for al doggity to produce the Weinberg and Scarr study . . . and their qualification of it.

[haider]

The genetic part, Haider.

That's what I'm trying to point out, not prove. I don't have that ambition.

No shit?  

Pointing out things is ok, but you are working under the assumption that there is a direct correlation between what you are pointing out and the subject at hand. I'm only challenging that assumption in the absence of evidence.

I think discussions about subject like this without the correct guidance can be extremely dangerous. Not something that should be up for public discussion, only real scientific minds.

[Al-Gebra]

Subjective observations often tend to be true, when of course a general populus is in question.

No.

[Camel Jockey]

No shit?  

Pointing out things is ok, but you are working under the assumption that there is a direct correlation between what you are pointing out and the subject at hand. I'm only challenging that assumption in the absence of evidence.

I think discussions about subject like this without the correct guidance can be extremely dangerous. Not something that should be up for public discussion, only real scientific minds.

The evidence is masked by political correctness, you fool. Use common sense for once. And I think your pov is skewed by your own background.. I mean pakis aren't exactly thought of as teddy bears. You are destroying england and stand the same to do here, unless we do SOMETHING.

Look at the stats for blacks. If you ignore those, then your opnions are invalid by default.

No.

When generalizing an entire group, then OF COURSE YES. How could you say no? Not talking about individuals here.

I think I know your bias, but am too wasted to go about challenging it.. Leave it tonight, but I am surprised that you'd bust out "anecdotal" on a simple topic on a bbing forum.. Trying to sound important or something along those lines, Al?

[Al-Gebra]

The evidence is masked by political correctness, you fool. Use common sense for once. And I think your pov is skewed by your own background.. I mean pakis aren't exactly thought of as teddy bears. You are destroying england and stand the same to do here, unless we do SOMETHING.

Look at the stats for blacks. If you ignore those, then your opnions are invalid by default.


When generalizing an entire group, then OF COURSE YES. How could you say no? Not talking about individuals here.

I think I know your bias, but am too wasted to go about challenging it.. Leave it tonight, but I am surprised that you'd bust out "anecdotal" on a simple topic on a bbing forum.. Trying to sound important or something along those lines, Al?

i didn't burst out w anything, it's in my first post in this thread.

and what is my bias?

[haider]

The evidence is masked by political correctness, you fool. Use common sense for once. And I think your pov is skewed by your own background.. I mean pakis aren't exactly thought of as teddy bears. You are destroying england and stand the same to do here, unless we do SOMETHING.

wow, just wow dude, this is a new low for you. Very disappointing that you would even bring my "background" into the argument. It has no relevance, and as such proves your naivete about the issue, or your biases. Grow up dude.

[Al-Gebra]

Not something that should be up for public discussion, only real scientific minds.

so we're all sheep?

[Al Doggity]

I'm waiting for al doggity to produce the Weinberg and Scarr study . . . and their qualification of it.

Why does it seem like I'm the only one who has to provide documentation when I debate a point on these boards? 


It's sort of difficult to get good analysis of research online, but here is something from a book about some of the flaws in "TBC". The stuff relevant to the Scarr/Weinberg study starts on page 334.(Don't worry, you don't have to scroll through 333 pages, it's a sample preview on google books.)


http://books.google.com/books?id=UVLaKci3uOIC&pg=PA333&dq=scarr+weinberg+corrections+interpretations&sig=Peab86xsgBMAFeyiN3smb56hJwM#PPA331,M1



I think the findings as they're presented here are open to interpretation up to a point. I've actually read much more emphatic analysis, though. I'm a demo researcher/media buyer by profession and one of the major tools I use for work is a media database called Lexis Nexis. At a previous job, my subscription covered access to a lot of medical journals/medical opinion pieces (which this would fall under) and this is the second time in the last few weeks that I could have used it around here.

[Hedgehog]

Everyone in this thread should read Vanhanen's IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

Very controversial book.

[Nordic Superman]

wow, just wow dude, this is a new low for you. Very disappointing that you would even bring my "background" into the argument. It has no relevance, and as such proves your naivete about the issue, or your biases. Grow up dude.

Well your position as a minority adds to bias (of course I doubt you have the honour to admit this), and you certainly can't refute Pakis are destroying England.

Good day to you sir.

[ToxicAvenger]

Scientists like Richard Lynn, Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein believed that heredity (read race) played a greater role than environment in determining IQ . . .

apparently, some races were created more equal than others.

what do the denizens of the general board think.

try to refrain from using anecdotal evidence (for instance, my best friend is black and he is very well-spoken).

youandme, no one is interested in what you have to say, so don't bother. 

its a little bit of both..you can vastly improve your IQ within your genetic parameters..

however some people are hapless like Nord here..i'm been making Jungian jokes at him for months and the poor bastard hasn't caught on..

Note to Nord...when i said "that be a juigian slip" i mean..."your environment didn't make you an idiot...you were born that way!"

[Nordic Superman]

its a little bit of both..you can vastly improve your IQ within your genetic parameters..

however some people are hapless like Nord here..i'm been making Jungian jokes at him for months and the poor bastard hasn't caught on..

Note to Nord...when i said "that be a juigian slip" i mean..."your environment didn't make you an idiot...you were born that way!"

Wow, I'm really happy someone of your intelligence could input in this thread! Your posts are like a blast of fresh air! You cut thru the theories and such and give everyone a definitive answer! Fucking awesomeness personifide!

Oh these "juigian slip"'s you mention, could you maybe show me some of your posts where you're supposed to have done them?

Good day to you sir!

[ToxicAvenger]

Oh these "juigian slip"'s you mention, could you maybe show me some of your posts where you're supposed to have done them?

you really think you matter that much dontcha dumbie 

[Nordic Superman]

you really think you matter that much dontcha dumbie 

Translation:
انا احد كريه الراءحه كاري المسلم الذي يحب الاكل تأخذ الحصان الى القضيب حتى بلدي الشرجن

Translated to English:
Fuck, I've been caught talking out of my arse again! Now let's type the regular self centered type responce I'm renowned for!

[ToxicAvenger]

Translation:
انا احد كريه الراءحه كاري المسلم الذي يحب الاكل تأخذ الحصان الى القضيب حتى بلدي الشرجن

Translated to English:
Fuck, I've been caught talking out of my arse again! Now let's type the regular self centered type responce I'm renowned for!

Default low IQ attack that Nord ALWAYS falls back on " call toxic an arab " 

PS i dont understand arabic..make it in urdu next time..

[Nordic Superman]

Default low IQ attack that Nord ALWAYS falls back on " call toxic an arab " 

PS i dont understand arabic..make it in urdu next time..

Again, where did I call you and arab? When for that matter have I EVER called you an arab?

Arabic just so happens to be the language of the moslems.

You're digging a deep hole!

PS use the Google Translator (I would have assumed someone of your vast unmeasureable intelligence would have figure that part out?)

[ToxicAvenger]

PS use the Google Translator (I would have assumed someone of your vast unmeasureable intelligence would have figure that part out?)

ya think i'd make that effort? 

you bleat an awefull lot

[Nordic Superman]

ya think i'd make that effort? 

you bleat an awefull lot

Someone as important as you wouldn't go to that effort I'm sure! However, don't people in your esteemed positions have slaves to carry out such activities?

BTW, are you aware of how stupid you are and how much of a fucking tool you are?

Probably not... I bid you goodday.

[haider]

Well your position as a minority adds to bias (of course I doubt you have the honour to admit this), and you certainly can't refute Pakis are destroying England.

Good day to you sir.

And you have admitted to your outrageous biases exactly when? Thought so..  It is useless to argue with someone who accuses anotehr of a bias, but at the same time forgets his own. He also fails to realise that it doesnt work as an argument (i.e. an adhominem fallacy), i.e. it is a copout rather than a form of argumentation.

However, I have admitted in the past that my background influences my opinions atleast in some way, as it affects anybody (you seem to overlook this fact about yourself). This I haven't seen coming from you, which stands to expose your own hypocrisy, lack of honor, cowardice, or whichever way you have put it many times when trying to attack me.

I've tried being polite with you in the past, and working with you patiently but it doesn't work... simply because you are blinded by your bias- not that I would use it as a real argument against you, but then it gets tiresome and I'm forced to tell you that you are not trying to see the picture.

Fuck you too sir.

[Nordic Superman]

Q: Was, or was not, my reponce a reponce to your ad hominem attack on Camel?

You never argued the points that Camel brought up, rather you went all ad hominem on his arse.

How's the starving yourself for the devil going?

[UPINTHEMGUTS]

I also think both factors influence IQ

Of course they do. The question is to what degree of influence.

I side on the notion that heredity is the determining factor.

If you're born dumb, then you can't fix stupid! (quoted by comedian Ron White)