Iranian President wants to lay a wreath on 9/11 site but denied

[drkaje]

Really?

I think they're TERRIBLE at manipulating public opinion.  99% of AMericans HATE them. 

On the other hand, we white folks are DAMN GOOD at manipulating public opinion.  WIth zero evidence of a WMD program that didn't exist, Bush got half a trillion dollars loan, 3800 people to give their lives for it, 20,000 people to give a limb for it.  And, he still has 25% of Americans supporting a war for ghost-WMD that he now admits never existed!! 

That's some seriously good public spin, baby!

Quite a few Americans deny the holocaust, should they be killed as well?

[G o a t b o y]

On the other hand, we white folks are DAMN GOOD at manipulating public opinion.  WIth zero evidence of a WMD program that didn't exist, Bush got half a trillion dollars loan, 3800 people to give their lives for it, 20,000 people to give a limb for it.  And, he still has 25% of Americans supporting a war for ghost-WMD that he now admits never existed!! 

That's some seriously good public spin, baby!

We shoulda just been honest from the get-go:  "We (the US) need to secure the Mid-East oil reserves before the Chinese do in order to maintain our econony and lifestyles.  If not, at some point in the future we're in for a world of shit."   Of course, that probably wouldn't have played very well on the world stage. 

[gcb]

Maybe you should pay attention to how media and image play the single most vital role in fighting wars. If this ass is allowed to fein sympathy for 9/11 in order to garner compassion from fools like you we will never be able to fight a war against Iraq if the need arises. People like you and Decker will say "How bad can he be, didn't you see him at ground zero?" just shows how much smarter the muslims are at manipulating public opinion.

You keep missing the point that in their eyes (muslims) the US is the bad guy and there is plenty of evidence to back it up - illegal war in Iraq for a start.

[gcb]

We shoulda just been honest from the get-go:  "We (the US) need to secure the Mid-East oil reserves before the Chinese do in order to maintain our econony and lifestyles.  If not, at some point in the future we're in for a world of shit."   Of course, that probably wouldn't have played very well on the world stage. 

I'd say you guys should get off your lazy asses and start developing alternative fuels and just forget about the middle east. As soon as the alternatives are developed to the extent they can largely replace middle east oil these regimes will lose their significance and power.

[militarymuscle69]

Really?

I think they're TERRIBLE at manipulating public opinion.  99% of AMericans HATE them. 

On the other hand, we white folks are DAMN GOOD at manipulating public opinion.  WIth zero evidence of a WMD program that didn't exist, Bush got half a trillion dollars loan, 3800 people to give their lives for it, 20,000 people to give a limb for it.  And, he still has 25% of Americans supporting a war for ghost-WMD that he now admits never existed!! 

That's some seriously good public spin, baby!

I always thought you were smarter than that

[Decker]

Maybe you should pay attention to how media and image play the single most vital role in fighting wars. If this ass is allowed to fein sympathy for 9/11 in order to garner compassion from fools like you we will never be able to fight a war against Iraq if the need arises. People like you and Decker will say "How bad can he be, didn't you see him at ground zero?" just shows how much smarter the muslims are at manipulating public opinion.

Why are you speaking for me?  To point out the fact that the Iranian president never said some of the things he's attributed with saying is the right thing to do.  Otherwise we end up with propaganda, you know, lies. 

Was Reagan nuts with this quote?:

"Let us beware that while they [Soviet rulers] preach the supremacy of the state, declare its omnipotence over individual man, and predict its eventual domination over all the peoples of the earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world.... I urge you to beware the temptation ... to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong, good and evil."

See how he deplores what they are doing--calling them evil--yet he doesn't say we should wipe the Soviets from the map even though we don't condone evil and in fact try to eradicate it.  It's a rhetorical flourish.  Yet words mean something.

Why should we pretend that Ahmadinejad said something that he didn't?

[240 is Back]

I always thought you were smarter than that

Please explain.

There is a war that was started for WMD, which Rove exists probably never existed.

The war continues.

That's some smart work right there.  Wouldn't you agree?

And 90% of AMerica thinks ahmedijad is a nut.  90% of his own country thinks he's a nut.  Where exactly IS he winning the PR battle? 

No offence, i love ya mm69, but you very often post out of emotion and not facts.  Ahmedijahad is not respected anywhere in the world.  He's a distraction used by Iran's real leaders to stall time.  They just want Bush to leave office without any unprovoked attacks on them.  I know you have a boner for war, that's cool.  But use facts, not emotion here.

You attacked my intelligence.  Fair enough.  Back it up.  WHere is ahmedijahad WINNING the PR war?

[240 is Back]

I agree the man should be BANNED from speaking if he has done things to hurt Americans.  Here is a look at the 3 things he is criticized for.

1. Denying the Holocaust.
This is a terrible charge.  TOday he said there needs to be more research on it.  We all know that 6 million Jews were said to have died.  That is a horrible number.  We also know that in 1991, the plaque at Auscwitz was changed from 4.5 million to read 1.5 million.  I don't know what that means.  Do you?

2. He wants to destroy Israel and America.
We have one loose translation which has mixed translations?  The man has been in public speech for decades and speaks out constantly.  You're telling me he only said this about Isr and US ONCE?  In all those decades of speaking, he only said it ONCE?  Really?  You'd think a terror mastermind would have said it thousands of times. 

3. He is funding terror in Iraq.
If this is true, I support bombing the shit out of Iran.  I'm ignoring the hypocracy of it all - I know we created al Q in 1980 to do precisely that - kill Russians by proxy.  But I'll be a hypocrite if its true.  Can someone here please show us evidence that Ahdmiedijhad or the Iranian Govt has fueled terror?  ALso, since the Bush admin was dead wrong about WMD - and Rove admits they were - I am going to pass on taking their word on this one.  Please show me the evidence he is funding terror, from anyone in the world besides a group who was wrong last time and is dying to war with Iran, and I'll support bombing them 1000%.  Can someone please provide this evidence?

Hey kids.  GIve me a reason to hate this fvcker!!

I want the ACTUAL Holocaust number, along with an explanation of why they reduced the number by 3 mil in 1991.

I want the ACTUAL line he used to declare wa ron us.

I want non-politically motivated evidence he is funding insurgents in Iraq.


This shit should be easy.  I'll be the first to vote to cook his silly ass if you guys can do this.  If you cannot, then I am skeptical of your position that war is good - because you showed 3 reasons without any evidence, hence you have no credibility.


Still waiting...

[militarymuscle69]

Please explain.

There is a war that was started for WMD, which Rove exists probably never existed.

The war continues.

That's some smart work right there.  Wouldn't you agree?

And 90% of AMerica thinks ahmedijad is a nut.  90% of his own country thinks he's a nut.  Where exactly IS he winning the PR battle? 

No offence, i love ya mm69, but you very often post out of emotion and not facts.  Ahmedijahad is not respected anywhere in the world.  He's a distraction used by Iran's real leaders to stall time.  They just want Bush to leave office without any unprovoked attacks on them.  I know you have a boner for war, that's cool.  But use facts, not emotion here.

You attacked my intelligence.  Fair enough.  Back it up.  WHere is ahmedijahad WINNING the PR war?

honsetly kid, I didn't even bring up the war....muslims are using the american media to fuel hate against the war on terror (all fronts). Wars are won on public sentiment, not the front lines..history has proven time and again

[militarymuscle69]

and I never said they were respected.....they just use the media well to defeat ourselves

[240 is Back]

honsetly kid, I didn't even bring up the war....muslims are using the american media to fuel hate against the war on terror (all fronts). Wars are won on public sentiment, not the front lines..history has proven time and again

muslims?  Or islamic extremists?  Please tell me you do separate th two.  There are a billion muslims in the world who will live their lives in peace, never attacking america or even wishing to. 

There are a few hundred thousand who are evil fvcks, and I'm okay with taking them out. Go for it.  Just don't label a billion people as nuke-worthy, ya know?


now - Bush completely OWNED public sentiment in the world after 911.  And what happened?  He squandered it by lying to people and using fearmongering.   By telling the UN to go fvck themselves, when they wanted to help rebuild Iraq - because the US wanted all the oil contracts for itself.  Rememebr that?    THAT is what hurt our credibility and made the idiots look like victims.  Lies.  and greed.

[UPINTHEMGUTS]

This debate and feigned outrage is amusing. 

Ahmadinedschad and Iran had nothing to do with 9/11.  He has broken no laws of the United States and is a legal visitor to the country.  If he wants to visit ground zero and lay a wreath there who cares?  Your life will not be impacted.
If people want to be outraged about something they might try outrage that, many years later, the person responsible for 9/11 has not been caught and that your “leaders” made fools of you by playing on your emotions and steering you into a conflict that has cost thousands of lives, hundreds of billions of dollars, and has done nothing to make the country safer even as Al Queda has returned to its pre 9/11 strength.  Talk about a bait and switch.  Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha

You Americans are such Fools! Ba ha ha ha ha

While that may be true, the goverment has military evidence that Iraqi missles and explosives are being built and manufactured in Iran. Ahmidinijead's partially funding the Iraqi cause against the United States military. That makes him a war criminal in that respect and he has no business being in this country.

For him to be allowed to speak at Columbia university and address questions from a bunch of Ivy league, liberal douchebag college students is a fucking outrage. He should not feel welcome in the country in any way shape or form. We are making him feel welcome by giving him this platform.

The greatest thing about the United States is also a weakness and a flaw. Our diplomatic attitude and approach are supporting these types of examples.

You know how you maintain peace? By imposing the threat of war if you fuck with us. The United States has turned into a bunch of fucking pussies and it's one of the reasons why we have been vulnerable against terrorist attacks.

Might makes right, fuckers!

Long live G. Gordon Liddy!

[militarymuscle69]

muslims?  Or islamic extremists?  Please tell me you do separate th two.  There are a billion muslims in the world who will live their lives in peace, never attacking america or even wishing to. 

There are a few hundred thousand who are evil fvcks, and I'm okay with taking them out. Go for it.  Just don't label a billion people as nuke-worthy, ya know?


now - Bush completely OWNED public sentiment in the world after 911.  And what happened?  He squandered it by lying to people and using fearmongering.   By telling the UN to go fvck themselves, when they wanted to help rebuild Iraq - because the US wanted all the oil contracts for itself.  Rememebr that?    THAT is what hurt our credibility and made the idiots look like victims.  Lies.  and greed.

Yes I seperate the two, sorry...but we probably diagree on the classification of Ahmidinijead

[240 is Back]

Yes I seperate the two, sorry...but we probably diagree on the classification of Ahmidinijead

I dunno.  IF he did fuel terror, i'm all for cooking the basatrd.

Problem is, the only group telling me about his terror acts against the US is the white house.

And after the great deal of lies and misstatements they have made, I don't lend much credibility to what they say.  Bush went on tv last week and made a dozen statemens which were in DIRECT contradiction to govt reports - in order to paint a rosy picture in Iraq.  he fact is, Bush is now a war salesman.  period.  And he's trying to sell a war on Iran now.  So anything he tells us about Admedijahad, well, it could be tainted.  When the UN, NATO, or some other group shows proof, I"m all for wasting the crazy bastard in iran.  But right now, all we have is Bush, who is so thirsty for another war in Iran...

[Decker]

I dunno.  IF he did fuel terror, i'm all for cooking the basatrd.

Problem is, the only group telling me about his terror acts against the US is the white house.

And after the great deal of lies and misstatements they have made, I don't lend much credibility to what they say.  Bush went on tv last week and made a dozen statemens which were in DIRECT contradiction to govt reports - in order to paint a rosy picture in Iraq.  he fact is, Bush is now a war salesman.  period.  And he's trying to sell a war on Iran now.  So anything he tells us about Admedijahad, well, it could be tainted.  When the UN, NATO, or some other group shows proof, I"m all for wasting the crazy bastard in iran.  But right now, all we have is Bush, who is so thirsty for another war in Iran...

So now allegations are flying that Iran is really a safe harbor for Al Qaeda and that Iran is arming 'the base' in Iraq. 

The Iraqi insurgents are idenitified with Al Qaeda terrorists--that's propaganda.

Iraq is a Shia majority that used to be held in check by the Sunni minority until we attacked and removed Hussein.

The resulting chaos would leave a Shia majority in Iraq sympathetic with the Shia majority in Iran.  (There are sub-groups of Shia v Sunni, Shia v Shia, Sunni v Sunni making the true make-up even more confusing).

Since the US lost its "Iran is making an atomic bomb" argument, it is now trying with all its might to bring Iran into the Iraq war.  How?

1.  The invasion of Iraq itself--the US's illegitimate takeover of Iraq has created an atmosphere of instability and military aggression in the middle east...along with those Aircraft carriers off the coast of Iran.

The US sure is giving the appearance to strike Iran.  What's Iran supposed to do?  Wait to become victims of another US led liberation attack?

2.  False evidence of Iran's arming of "Al Qaeda" in Iraq.  "Lieutenant General Raymond Odierno, the second-ranking U.S. commander in Iraq, made the most spectacular claim of Iranian culpability in arming the militias so far when he declared in an interview..., “We have weapons that we know through serial numbers…that trace back to Iran.” He referred specifically to RPG-29s -- armor-piercing rocket-propelled grenades -- and truck-mounted Katyusha rockets captured in Iraq."

"That statement represents a serious leap in logic, because the place in which a weapon was manufactured does not tell us who actually supplied them to Iraqi Shiites. (The United States, for example, has been supplying Iraqi forces with Russian-made RPG-7s.) But in making the claim, Odierno made a major stumble: Iran has never been known to manufacture the RPG-29, so the military could not have captured one with an Iranian serial number. The RPG-29 has always been a Russian-made weapon."  http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_blame_game

The Weapons Black Market is a Black Market, not an Iranian sponsored Black Market.  But our government blames Iran for "meddling" every chance it can:
Intelligence Links Iran to Iraqi Insurgent Weapons
Iraq's Foreign Minister Says He Has Seen No Evidence Linking Iran to Insurgency http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2866573&page=1

Iran arming Taliban, U.S. claims http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/06/13/iran.taliban/index.html

Bush insists Iran is arming Iraq
‘I’m going to do something about it,’ president says http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17146548/

You are right to question the validity of the Bush Administration's claims. 

We've heard the certitude in the case for war bullshit before.

[240 is Back]

I'm all for war.  But seriously guys, Bush sat on tv last week and outright lied.  The statements he made were in DIRECT contradiction to Pentagon and GAO reports.  He is a war salesman now, and that's cool.  Just accept that anything he tells us about the next war target (iran) come from the war salesman, not an objective, honest guy.

[Tre]

They denied him because it was a publicity stunt for the media, not a sincere gesture.  Remember, this is the guy always shouting "death to America", and suggesting Israel should be "wiped off the map".  It would have been disrespectful to the memories of the victims to allow him to perform his little dog & pony show there for the cameras.  I agree with the decision 100%.

BUT, was the denial of this photo op - no matter how insincere it was perceived to be - un-American? 

[drkaje]

Bush has about a year left to occupy Iran.

[ToxicAvenger]

You don't think he backs terrorism? must not watch much news

\



we also thought saddam backed al-queda....

 

saddam ws a dictator yes..but also a womaizer, a partier..he REALLY woulda agreed with alqueda...

seems like bush makes shit up as he goes along to fit his ajenda..while the rest of the world is steadily bulding up hatered towards us..

ya disagree..to talk to europeans who r christians and see what they think of americans..i have a portugese guy in my class..and their outlook on Americans aint pretty...

[JOHN MATRIX]

i agree with decker and 240 that anything coming out of 'the white house' and Bush in particular concerning the middle east has very little credibility anymore. its hard to believe that there are so many people who dont get that the american public gets fed as much propaganda by our government as any of them gets from theirs.